Getting pulled over

[1903Collector]

It's never happened to me before, but I have wondered.

O.K. So you are driving along, minding your own buisness with your favorite gun on your hip or under the shoulder and you get pulled over. Do the Police know if you are an LTC holder when they run the plates or check your license? If not, do you have an obligation to inform the officer that pulled you over that you are carrying, I'm thinking no. Anyone ever been in this situation before.

03C

 

[Pilgrim]

do you have an obligation to inform the officer that pulled you over that you are carrying, I'm thinking no.

you are correct...but it's still wise to do it IF and only if he asks you to exit the vehicle.

 

[C-pher]

It's never happened to me before, ....

You should have never said that...

I would drive the speed limit, use your turn signals, and follow the rules of the road if I were you.

 

[tuna]

Years ago, I had time to unload my gun, place it locked open on my dashboard and when the cop came to the car I had my hands on the wheel in full sight with my LTC and DL in hand. I think it made the officer a little nervous and looking back I didn't handle it as well as I could have. What I think happened was the cop first saw GUN and his thinking went from there. (This was in Paxton, and the guy was pretty cool, but still was highly cautious)
If I ever wind up in this situation again, what I'd do is; keep hands visible, hand over LTC with DL and tell the officer that "Here is my LTCA-unrestricted, I am carrying now and the firearm is on me at xxxxxxx. My registration is in the glovebox, how would you like me to proceed?"
This tells the cop that I'm legal FIRST before he even sees the gun, and shows that I'm giving him the courtesy of a) telling him I'm armed and b) letting him "control" the situation as to my move. Which SHOULD make for a calmer situation.

I do know that there is nothing that says I have to tell the cop, but since I'm not doing anything wrong (well, besides speeding or having a taillight out) I don't see a problem with de-escalating the situation before he sees a bulge and thinks that I'm carrying without a permit.

C-pher, what are turn signals?

 

[Len-2A Training]

You can also look up prior threads on this subject here for more info. Use Advanced Search to find them.

PD CAN find out if you have a LTC, but don't typically do it on a car stop. One exception is that some towns (like mine) have their own computer system and log in everything that has ever happened in your life . . . the dispatcher then informs the officer at the scene that you called the PD once in 1981 to report a loose dog on your lawn (NOT kidding, that's in my personal file here)!!

 

[Pilgrim]

do know that there is nothing that says I have to tell the cop, but since I'm not doing anything wrong (well, besides speeding or having a taillight out) I don't see a problem with de-escalating the situation before he sees a bulge and thinks that I'm carrying without a permit.

Telling him, according to your story, made him nervous, that escalated it right there.

You're better off NOT offering the info or LTC, unless he asks you for it or asks you out of the car. It's much less stressful for everyone that way.

since I'm not doing anything wrong .....

another problem. and an attitude that many have. Why agree to any search or volunteer ANYTHING if you don't have to?

 

[EddieCoyle]

The last few times I haven't said a word. Except when my S&W range bag was on the seat next to me. The cop asked, "What's in the bag?" To which I replied, "A bunch of handguns. You pulled me over as I was leaving the range."

 

[Len-2A Training]

Tuna, you try that here in the Eastern part of the state and odds are high you get proned out on asphalt for a felony stop. Won't happen everywhere but in enough places that you'll always remember what dirt and asphalt taste like for life.

The real wisdom is in searching prior threads here.

NOBODY should hand over their LTC, gun, etc. UNLESS specifically asked for it OR you are told to exit the car (assuming it is CONCEALED and he's not going to see it).

If I had ever stopped you, saw you making furtive movements (unloading gun), spotted a gun on dash as I walked up, I"d have drawn my gun, back off to the cruiser and probably get the long gun out after calling for backup. NOT a wise move at all, anywhere!

 

[Jay G]

The last few times I haven't said a word. Except when my S&W range bag was on the seat next to me. The cop asked, "What's in the bag?" To which I replied, "A bunch of handguns. You pulled me over as I was leaving the range."

Hell, man, your PLATE kinda tips your hand, doesn't it?

 

[1903Collector]

You should have never said that...

I would drive the speed limit, use your turn signals, and follow the rules of the road if I were you.

Yea, you're right, dammit

 

[1903Collector]

you are correct...but it's still wise to do it IF and only if he asks you to exit the vehicle.

That I would agree with.

 

[Dirtypacman]

From http://www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/

Must notify officer when carrying: No

Each state on packing.org has a brief description for these types of questions.

Myself:
2x stopped - 2x sent along with a warning- LTC was never discussed or brought up on either end.
If I was asked to leave the car I would have made it known before a pat down.

 

[1903Collector]

PD CAN find out if you have a LTC, but don't typically do it on a car stop. One exception is that some towns (like mine) have their own computer system

I have heard that some Jurisdictions in the free states link ccw permit info with DMV records.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, in some states the data comes up on the first screen with DL/Reg info. NOT so in MA, one must make a special query to get the info.

Also, in some states, your DL has an "endorsement" on it for CCW, so everyone who sees your DL knows that you own guns and may be carrying. Again, NOT so in MA!

 

[Patriot]

Hell, man, your PLATE kinda tips your hand, doesn't it?

???

 

[csharpdev]

Depending on the type of car or truck you drive it may be next to impossible to reach for you glove compartment without exposing your CCW. I'd say it would be wise to inform the officer before hand.

I've also heard stories from people that some officers will give a warning instead of a ticket to CCW permit holders similar to the profesional curticy they give other LEO's. My wallet has a clear platic cover over for an ID, I keep my LTC behind my Drivers license, if they notice it while removing my license so be it, if not I don't go out of my way to show it to them.

I got stopped (no guns in car) in Norfolk once doing almost 50 in a 25 and only got a warning, after the LEO informed me there had been alot of recent complaints about speeding on that section of road. (the speed limit drops from 45 to 25 in only one direction; probably an easy ticket to beat) Perhaps he saw my LTC and figured I was a good guy, perhaps he wasn't writing anyone a ticket and just giving warnings, perhaps it was my spottless driving record and he didn't want to tarnish it... I didn't ask I just said "Thank you"

 

[Cross-X]

TBP, he's referring to EddieCoyle's car's license plate.

 

[drgrant]

IMO in MA divulging the information without being asked for it is a good
way to get a loaded gun in your ear or roughed up. (among other
things.) This is a general trend in any state that is mostly filled with
antis. There are likely LEOS in MA that have never even had to deal with
LTC holders before... as well as many that hold us in "contempt by default"
and are probably aghast at the premise that a mere peon like one of us is
allowed to carry a gun. Some may not even know that people outside of
LE or security guards are even allowed to carry a gun. (A lot of folks
forget... but most LEOs are NOT gun enthusiasts... not by any stretch).

It is not a good idea to proffer the information unless your asked about it
specifically, and even then, you should do so with care... choose your
words carefully.

I used to think it didn't matter but then I heard a firsthand account from
an LTC holder that thought he was doing the right thing.. and by notifying
the LEO, the LEO then decided that he should disarm him, and in doing so
the LTC holder ended up getting swept by the muzzle of his own loaded
gun, and the LEO almost discharged a shot into the side of his
vehicle while trying to unload the firearm! Eventually the LEO relented and
asked the LTC holder to unload it! (it was a 1911 and apparently the
safety was an alien thing to him... he didn't understand how it worked)
(which begs the quesiton, why the hell the LEO even bothered to disarm
him to begin with. )

Hearing about an incident like that firsthand was enough to scare the
crap out of me into not notifying unless necessary. (eg, if the officer
asks me specifically.)

Edit: FWIW, I realize that not all LEOS would react with an idiotic
response, but I think the odds are generally against getting a gun friendly
LEO on most traffic stops.


-Mike

 

[JonJ]

NOBODY should hand over their LTC, gun, etc. UNLESS specifically asked for it OR you are told to exit the car (assuming it is CONCEALED and he's not going to see it).

A good cop will NEVER "ask" to see an LTC/FID.

 

[rscalzo]

Each state on packing.org has a brief description for these types of questions.

The information on this site is in many cases outdated. I would hesitate to us it as a basis for what I did in or out of state.

 

[Dirtypacman]

The information on this site is in many cases outdated. I would hesitate to us it as a basis for what I did in or out of state.

Yes I would figure its a reference point to start with but - no doubt always double check all facts on the web regardless of if you think they are valid.

 

[tuna]

Great, so now I can't even come here without being told to shut my mouth. Hmmph, and I thought I was making friends!

Just kidding - good info after my post, maybe its time to rethink my plan (besides not speeding of course).

 

[Scrivener]

Great, so now I can't even come here without being told to shut my mouth. Hmmph, and I thought I was making friends!

Don't ask the question if you can't hack the answer.

 

[n1zfg]

The top two things the cops worry about when pulling someone over are:
Getting hit by oncoming traffic.
Getting shot by the one being pulled over.

Getting off the road far enough that the cop can park his cruiser between where he'll be standing and the oncoming traffic helps worry #1. Letting him know you got completely off the breakdown lane and onto the shoulder to give him space to work has gotten more than one ticket turned into a warning. (I usually ask him if I'm far enough over for him to be relatively safe, etc. He then knows that I just cut him a break.)

To minimize worry #2, don't make any sudden or sneaky movement.
Don't move around much until after he gets into a position to see what you are doing. When he's in the cruiser looking at you in your car, all he can tell is whether or not you are moving around. He can't see what you are doing. Any motion he can't identify will make him wonder if you are preparing to shoot him. You can probably turn on your dome light. Maybe roll down your window. Keeping your hands on the steering wheel is best. Definitely don't do any rummaging around for stuff until after he's peering over your shoulder and shining that flashlight on your hands.

Regardless of your carry status, these two principles above go a long way in giving the cop the first impression of you being "one of the good guys".

Considering the number of gun laws and vagueness involved, I'm going with the concept that that what they don't know won't hurt me. Also If I think they're going to see it, I will tell them where it is (i.e. warn them that my movement is going to show it), offer to cough up the LTC, and follow the cop's directions to the letter slowly and deliberately.

Who knows, the cop who pulls you over may be one of us. All the cruisers in my home town have an NRA sticker in the back window.

 

[commandcaddy]

Just a few words for what they are worth.... been a police officer for over thirty years in Mass. and have only had a couple of instances of having individuals tell me when they were pulled over that they were carrying concealed weapons. I have no problems with civilians carrying and in the town where I work(SE Mass), we urge eligible individuals to come in and get LTC's or FID's.

It appears to me from what I've seen is that if you are carrying and your handgun is very well concealed, you should be okay if you can get your license and registration during a stop without the officer seeing the firearm. If your firearm is going to be in the least bit exposed, please follow Tuna's advice and tell the officer you have an LTC and are carrying in a calm tone of voice. If an officer sees a firearm and does not know you have a license during an encounter, then you may find yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Also remember that there is current training that has been accepted by court that gives cues to police officers who may be carrying a firearm so they may not even have to see the firearm to believe you have one.

If you are ordered out of your vehicle, then definitely tell the officer you are carrrying and are licensed and wait for commands on how to proceed.
You still should be treated in a respectful manner either way.

commandcaddy

 

[Junglerott]

Would giving your gun to the cop be breaking MA law? LTC A requires the gun to always be in your control. Once you give it to him it no longer is. Unless of course you are being detained.

 

[depicts]

When I owned my photo studio, I did a lot of commercial photography for SIG firearms up in Exeter, NH. For several years in a row I photographed their catalog for them. I'd drive up to their building and then Alan, the sales and marketing guy, would give me one of everything they wanted in the catalog that year, including Stainless, engraved and regular models of each pistol, and all of their accessories.

It made for quite a car full, each gun neatly packed in it's brand new cardboard box marked SIG in big bold letters with the Tupperware case inside. I drive a small Saturn Wagon, so I'd spread out the guns on the carpeted back of my car so they wouldn't fall off a pile or slide and get dinged before I photographed them.

One day I had close to thirty pistols, a couple of Hammerli air guns and one SIG rifle in the back of my car when I entered Massachusetts and came to a construction site where a Mass State Trooper was controlling the traffic flow into one lane. I happened to stop right in front of him, and saw him glance in the back of my car.

He came up to my window and asked what were in all the boxes. I told him, and told him why I had them, and showed him a shipping receipt from SIG listing all the guns. To his credit, he took it in stride and didn't even ask to see my LTC. He asked me if I had any "extra" samples, smiled, and directed me back into the highway traffic.

After that however, I always took a blanket along with me to cover the boxes, just in case.

 

[b79holmes]

SNIP... keep hands visible, hand over LTC with DL and tell the officer that "Here is my LTCA-unrestricted, I am carrying now and the firearm is on me at xxxxxxx. ...SNIP... how would you like me to proceed?"

Close???

I just took the LTC class last fall and the instructor who is retired L.E. said to tell the officer you are licensed to carry, have a gun on you at xxxxxxxx and ask him how he would like to proceed. He said 'most guys' would be fine with that.

Bill

 

[M1911]

O.K. So you are driving along, minding your own buisness with your favorite gun on your hip or under the shoulder and you get pulled over. Do the Police know if you are an LTC holder when they run the plates or check your license?

It is my understanding that it does not come up on the default screen when they run your license. But they could probably find it, if they wanted to.

If not, do you have an obligation to inform the officer that pulled you over that you are carrying, I'm thinking no. Anyone ever been in this situation before.

Here in MA, you are not required to notify the officer. Note, however, that some other states DO require you to notify the officer.

When I took LFI-1, Ayoob recommended that if you are in a state that does not require you to notify the officer, that you do not do so UNLESS the officer tells you to get out of the vehicle. If the officer tells you to get out of the vehicle, Ayoob recommended that you respond by saying "Certainly, officer. However, I have a license to carry and I am carrying now. How would you like to proceed?" That tells the officer that 1) you will cooperate with his instructions, 2) you are a card-carrying good guy, 3) you are carrying, and 4) does it all without ever using the word "gun." The last thing you want to do is to make the officer nervous.

I have been stopped once while carrying. I did not notify the officer. He did not ask. He gave me a written warning and I went on my way.

 

[Gammon]

This has happened to me twice, both speeding stops. I placed both of my hands on the steering wheel and announced to the officer that I have a concealed carry permit and that I am carrying a pistol. On both occasions the officer closely examined my licence (driver's) and permit and sent me on my way. I think the firearm may have actually saved me from a ticket.

PS The drill was suggested to me by an LEO friend of mine. He warned me to never tell an officer that you are carrying a gun during a traffic stop. Always start by telling the officer that you have a license to carry; break it to him (or her) gently. The last thing these people need in such a situation is a surprise.