Getting assaulted.

Probably around the 30 second mark when it's obvious they're coming after you. Waiting any longer and you'll end up punched.

That may not be the legal answer or whatever but better to be safe than sorry.
 
Yeah, probably but I was thinking about that cat who got 3 years up here for brandishing recently.

Well, we don't even know if he brandished or not. One problem in ward bird's case is, allegedly, he drew a firearm in response to some moonbat lady asking for directions, someone who probably was not much of a real threat. Playing devils advocate for a minute here, and -assuming- she's not lying through her teeth, his brandishing of the firearm doesn't pass the reasonable person test.

it'd be pretty easy, on the other hand, to defend drawing, or at least putting your hand on your gun, in response to a bunch of guys running and yelling at you.

-Mike
 
Well, we don't even know if he brandished or not. One problem in ward bird's case is, allegedly, he drew a firearm in response to some moonbat lady asking for directions, someone who probably was not much of a real threat. Playing devils advocate for a minute here, and -assuming- she's not lying through her teeth, his brandishing of the firearm doesn't pass the reasonable person test.

it'd be pretty easy, on the other hand, to defend drawing, or at least putting your hand on your gun, in response to a bunch of guys running and yelling at you.

-Mike

Mike, I agree 100%.

And to Derek's point above, if it comes down to me or them I'm firmly in the "me" camp.

Anyone comes at me like that and I won't be thinking about whether drawing my firearm meets some kind of legal requirement or not.
 
As I understand it, there's at least some consideration of an escalation of force. Admittedly, I could certainly be wrong here but I would think that a group of men (clearly outnumbering you) taunting and verbally threatening you amounts to an assault. A reasonable person would be concerned for their welfare, assuming they don't believe they can escape via running or ducking into a store or something. At that point I would think that placing a hand on your firearm is a reasonable escalation and answer to that assault as opposed to brandishing. If they continue aggressions at that point, drawing is the next reasonable step. If there's any show of physical threat on their part after that, I would think you could certainly argue imminent threat of grave bodily harm since once the first guy hits you, you expect the others will overwhelm you.

Personally, I wish I knew how I would react. I'll pass since it would all be internet commando talk.
 
I like these videos. They make the case that a group of thugs, even if not armed, can present a deadly threat.

Hand goes to gun at about :25, draw is around :32 and the kid coming over the rail gets shot. Then you just hope you get the right jury.
 
Also, it looks like the guy is coming out of a door in a pretty questionable neighborhood. So, (1) avoid such neighborhoods, and (2) consider going back in the door. But, ultimately, a gang like that has to be met with force fairly early to have a chance. For all we know, they were armed.
 
I don't think placing your hand on your hip is going to deter any bad guys. Just my opinion though. [wink]

I agree. My thinking is that, particularly in winter, I want as much time as possible to get jacket/shirt/etc out of the way and to get a nice grip before drawing.
 
The vid was a little hard to follow, but yeah, the one who got close shouting "s'up?" would have received the first 230 gr greeting.
 
You're right. I'm overthinking. Draw and be done. Next move aggressive move is met with bang. Stupid state is f-ing with my brain

This is why I posted the video to get people to realize how quickly you can go from a causal walk to getting beat down by 5 thugs in literally a matter of seconds.
 
Let's say you drop rail guy and everyone else scatters. That leaves you with no bumps or bruises and a dead POS that was going to maybe stomp your face in (obviously in this case). How does this end well for you? The guy in the video most likely survived. Is deadly force necessary? I agree rail guy gets drawn on BTW.
 
You got to draw. I would like to think i'd draw early and conceal my draw, but would suspect it would be around thirty seconds.
 
Let's say you drop rail guy and everyone else scatters. That leaves you with no bumps or bruises and a dead POS that was going to maybe stomp your face in (obviously in this case). How does this end well for you? The guy in the video most likely survived. Is deadly force necessary? I agree rail guy gets drawn on BTW.

How is this avoidable in any situation where you are attacked by an unarmed group and you win? The end is one or more dead/injured unarmed thugs and no injuries to you. So you can either just decide right now to take the beating/death if it comes, or you can defend yourself.
 
Let's say you drop rail guy and everyone else scatters. That leaves you with no bumps or bruises and a dead POS that was going to maybe stomp your face in (obviously in this case). How does this end well for you? The guy in the video most likely survived. Is deadly force necessary? I agree rail guy gets drawn on BTW.

You leave under your own power instead of a hearse?
 
This is why I posted the video to get people to realize how quickly you can go from a causal walk to getting beat down by 5 thugs in literally a matter of seconds.

Yes.... threat detection is pretty tough here... there is very little time between "contact" and what would be "do something, now!"

-Mike
 
How is this avoidable in any situation where you are attacked by an unarmed group and you win? The end is one or more dead/injured unarmed thugs and no injuries to you. So you can either just decide right now to take the beating/death if it comes, or you can defend yourself.

That's exactly right. It's something you need to decide and not forget. It's something that you need to remeber every time you carry.
 
Isn't there a new law here in NH that took affect on the first of the year and was written because of the Bird case that allows you to display a firearm if you feel threatened ?
 
Let's say you drop rail guy and everyone else scatters. That leaves you with no bumps or bruises and a dead POS that was going to maybe stomp your face in (obviously in this case). How does this end well for you? The guy in the video most likely survived. Is deadly force necessary? I agree rail guy gets drawn on BTW.

Yea he'll probably live, but possibly with brain damage, broken ribs, face etc. Looks like they kicked him in the face a few times, knocked him out cold. Better to have defended yourself and live to defend yourself again at trial than possibly have your family bury you.

Personally id like to think id have drawn and taken down the first guy that jumped the railing as soon as he got up there and closed ground on me, the rest would likely have scattered.
 
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