http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...-armed/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
I'm guilty of occasionally not carrying. Have to get into a full time habit now.
I'm guilty of occasionally not carrying. Have to get into a full time habit now.
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Gentle reminder. A duty to carry.
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"Duty" implies that owe someone something. If I'm carrying, my first duty is to protect myself and my family. That includes safely extracting me and mine from the dangerous situation. IF I can complete that goal with complete safety, ONLY THEN would I even consider unleashing my inner John McClane.
I'm pretty sure that the author of the article cited by the OP was advocating that those who carry have a duty to stop an active shooter. From the article:
“Our job is not to arrest any ISIS inspired terrorist, our job is to kill him IF he starts shooting,” he told the crowd.
“Our job is not to arrest any ISIS inspired terrorist, our job is to kill him IF he starts shooting,” he told the crowd.
I recently went from carrying occasionally to full time when I can. As above if was at mall ect with wife and or kid and this shit started , my first reactions would be do everything I can to ensure they got out. After that, if possible try to neutralize situation.
Cloverleaf Firearms Group
Instructor
I'm sorry, but articles like that kind of ping my derp meter. I get the sentiment of the article, but just putting a gun to stop an active shooter, is like putting on sneakers will get you ready to run a marathon. If you are carrying a gun with the express intent of using it to fight, there is a lot more that should be going into it. I'm not shitting on any particular group, I've seen people from ALL backgrounds that are fooling themselves with their defensive gun-fighting capabilities (including myself for a time). The other issue is that you are far more likely to have to verbally, physically, or medically manage an issue in your life before you ever pull a gun. Prepare for the violence continuum.
disclaimer: No... this isn't a commercial to train with me. I'm flat out at work, and not running any classes any time soon. There are plenty of dudes out there who know their shit.
disclaimer: No... this isn't a commercial to train with me. I'm flat out at work, and not running any classes any time soon. There are plenty of dudes out there who know their shit.
Granted, I likely don't have the training you do. Granted, I might not have the speed, agility, ability or grace under pressure that you or your students have.
It would still be really ****ing nice to have a gun in that concert hall as they executed people one by one.
Even if I violated every single doctrine, ****ed up beyond belief, made every mistake in the book, and even made some mistakes that aren't in the book yet, accidentally shot myself and the guy next to me, I'd still have a few bullets left to send down range before I was executed. Just saying.
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SteelShooter
NES Member
especially after listening to that one girls story about pretending to be dead on the floor, laying in other peoples blood waiting for the shooter to make his way down to her. Would be nice to have at least some kind of chance to jump up and try defending yourself before you die.
I don't carry everywhere yet. Basically because I am a wuss. Seriously though, with two middle schoolers I find myself on school properties more and more and with those being designated gun free I haven't grown a pair big enough to carry there. I do carry a firearm all other times when i know I will not be going to a school property. However, I should definitely look into training. And though every scenario where one might be caught in a situation will be different the basic routine I run through my head is to put myself between my family and any possible threat.
But as others have mentioned in this thread I have my guns for self defense and that of my family.
It sounds selfish I know but I am not a hero nor do I want to be. I am not looking for anything more than to have me and my family survive any dire circumstance. So for the duty aspect....I think if people want to survive such an attack their duty lies in training for such an event and then they should arm themselves to help ensure they survive as well.
I guess the bottom line for me is that I will not draw or use my firearm in defense of a stranger. My Army days are long behind me and I am not a LEO so my only duty is to myself and my family.
If I was in Paris and was armed all I would be looking to do is get out of Dodge alive and hopefully uninjured. If I killed a terrorist on the way and someone I don't know was saved by that action well, that happens to be their lucky day for that would not be my intent at all.
Everyone has a duty to protect themselves. If they choose to not well...it doesn't become my duty by default just because I opt to carry.
But as others have mentioned in this thread I have my guns for self defense and that of my family.
It sounds selfish I know but I am not a hero nor do I want to be. I am not looking for anything more than to have me and my family survive any dire circumstance. So for the duty aspect....I think if people want to survive such an attack their duty lies in training for such an event and then they should arm themselves to help ensure they survive as well.
I guess the bottom line for me is that I will not draw or use my firearm in defense of a stranger. My Army days are long behind me and I am not a LEO so my only duty is to myself and my family.
If I was in Paris and was armed all I would be looking to do is get out of Dodge alive and hopefully uninjured. If I killed a terrorist on the way and someone I don't know was saved by that action well, that happens to be their lucky day for that would not be my intent at all.
Everyone has a duty to protect themselves. If they choose to not well...it doesn't become my duty by default just because I opt to carry.
Cloverleaf Firearms Group
Instructor
It's not about me, or about gun free zones, or what happened in the concert hall. It's just a statement about the bigger picture.
Exactly.
The first thing we were taught as EMTs was scene safety - you secure yourself, your crew and ensure their safety before you go rushing in John Wayne style.
I get the sentiment of the article, but if that kind of shit hits the fan, my obligation is to protect my family and myself. Not my problem if you were too complacent and ignorant to acclimate yourself to the shitty situation we find ourselves in.
The first thing we were taught as EMTs was scene safety - you secure yourself, your crew and ensure their safety before you go rushing in John Wayne style.
I get the sentiment of the article, but if that kind of shit hits the fan, my obligation is to protect my family and myself. Not my problem if you were too complacent and ignorant to acclimate yourself to the shitty situation we find ourselves in.
xtry51
NES Member
Since I'm normally carrying a pistol, dudes start shooting up a place I'm at with rifles and I'm out of there. I'm only shooting if they're attention is on me or my family and only enough to get out. The idea you're going Rambo on some dudes who are literally ambushing people with rifles using your CCW is fantasy.
If you want to try, go for it, but odds are you're getting lit up.
If you want to try, go for it, but odds are you're getting lit up.
This all day long. And besides. If the cops have no legal obligation to protect, why is it my "duty" to do what they won't? I'm taking care of mine first & foremost. Anything after that is icing on the cake. And I'll be asking myself what it's going to take to defend myself from the zealous prosecution of some fascist AG intent on destroying my life over "self help".
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
Because an entertainer says we need to carry.
Sorry, but I work in MA where state gov't apparatchiks are not going to let me have an unrestricted non-resident LTC.
This. I hate to break it to people, but if durkas pull a mumbai here, a lot of people are dying, guns or no guns around. When an adversary doesn't give a shit about dying, it makes them 10 times as dangerous.
-Mike
Absolutely this. I was discussing that with my wife the other day. When someone believes that they are going to be rewarded for dying doing whatever, they have no incentive to keep their heads down and try to avoid that death.
Yeah, but that still doesn't stop durkas from blowing themselves up in Israel, etc, on a regular basis. It might deter mass shootings to some degree because of limited effectiveness, but remember these durkas actually have a set of nads. This isn't some ****ey/depressed white kid whose annoyed with life and starts shooting people at the mall, who will shit his pants in about 2 seconds if he takes fire coming back his way. We're talking about durkas who get hopped up on drugs and come loaded for bear with ammo and grenades and shit. They're not nearly as deterred as some other threats.
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, hardly, I'm just saying that people need to be realistic about what these shitbirds can do and the relative effectiveness of being able to stop them.
-Mike
I would still choose to have a tool for self defense as not given the circumstances. I don't see not carrying as a viable choice to stay alive in one of those situations. Are you suggesting that cowering in place and peeing your pants is a better plan of action? If you are a target of someone who isn't afraid to die then what does that make you? Apparently not very dangerous.
Use your head. My friend stayed safe by refusing to open his door to two armed intruders once (he didn't know that they were armed but didn't like what they were saying so he didn't open his door). Avoid crowds, Think ahead - where's the exit? How can I get out of this place quickly? Do I really need to go to the Mall during Black Friday? Amazon is so convenient after all. Maybe that training course I've been putting off is a good idea etc. I believe that you can avoid a lot of problems by using your head. Try like crazy to avoid that situation where you wish that you were armed (but aren't for whatever reason). Netflix/Amazon/Vudu all have some great movies.
No, I'm not suggesting that at all, but what I am suggesting, is if a bunch of durkas shoot up a mall or whatever, a lot of people are dying, whether or not there are are a handful of guys with pistols hanging around isn't going to make much of a difference. You can argue that it'll probably help you get out of the mall, I can buy that... Not to mention out of these people with handguns, if they have their spouse and or kids in tow, they're going to NOPE themselves right the **** out of that place unless the action is unfolding literally in front of them... they're not going to abandon their family while they go running around in the mall playing durka hunter. Having a gun is a GREAT idea but most of these pieces like in the OP are written with this implied rambo overtone that somehow or another a handful of uncoordinated guys with pistols is going to be some kind of a game changer in terms of the outcome of the whole event, if we're talking a bunch of drugged up durkas with AKs, 10 mags apiece, grenades, and in a worst case, some kind of armor or plate carriers.
Granted, not every threat is at that level (for example, the two morons that tried to attack that museum in TX showing the anti-muzzie art) and simply carrying a handgun becomes a lot more valuable, but we're fooling ourselves if we think that most durka attacks in america are going to involve lone wolf types with sub-retard level IQs.
-Mike
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Boghog1
NES Member
psst, I don't carry most days since providing for may family supersedes my desire to carry on the off chance I need it at work. Besides if I die I will probably provide them more than I will earn in my lifetime.
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Let's hope it's that easy. The handgun you're carrying could be the difference between getting out or not. Maybe even simply because you'll have enough 'confidence' to try and make your way out of there. Trying to sneak out armed has got to be a lot better than sneaking out unarmed.
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