Gardening in New England (Vermont way up nawth)

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Hi all,
Y'all got any tips on what grows best and how/when to plant things up here in New England come spring? I am used to gardening down South, but this will be a first for me up Nawth.
Wife and I make some killer pickles so Cukes will be grown for sure. Love Tomatos too. Thinking some non GMO corn for the chickens lol! Love peppers too. Do y'all do root cellars here and or cold frames? Would like to learn some of those tricks. Also besides the typical varmits what other pests do you have to worry about there? Hornworms? Armyworms? Aphids? In ground versus container garden?

Thanks in advance!
 
Hey dixiejarhead-

I moved here from Tennessee a few years back and have actually found gardening a little easier. N Central Mass for me, but probably not that much different than VT. I just have a couple raised beds and containers since I travel a lot for work and want to keep things simple. 4' x 12' x ~12" high. Tilled the soil before building the frames and then filled with some nice, dark loam. Keeping them fed with plant compost.

Hornworms are here and occasionally you'll need to fight a horde of Japanese beetles. Otherwise not too many issues unless you have bears and deer raiding your stuff. The usual problems with rabbits.

I have not grown any okra yet but maybe next year. I think there are varieties that will grow OK in cool climates. Most things grow just fine but for some things you'll need to either start from plant or start indoors. Peppers in particular. I have some Hatch green chilis, Poblanos, Serranos, and Carolina Reapers growing but I started them in the winter with some grow lights given to me by Skysoldier on the forum.

Beans are easy, as are carrots, and it's a good climate to grow rhubarb if you like that. Rhubarb is darn near impossible back home.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey dixiejarhead-

I moved here from Tennessee a few years back and have actually found gardening a little easier. N Central Mass for me, but probably not that much different than VT. I just have a couple raised beds and containers since I travel a lot for work and want to keep things simple. 4' x 12' x ~12" high. Tilled the soil before building the frames and then filled with some nice, dark loam. Keeping them fed with plant compost.

Hornworms are here and occasionally you'll need to fight a horde of Japanese beetles. Otherwise not too many issues unless you have bears and deer raiding your stuff. The usual problems with rabbits.

I have not grown any okra yet but maybe next year. I think there are varieties that will grow OK in cool climates. Most things grow just fine but for some things you'll need to either start from plant or start indoors. Peppers in particular. I have some Hatch green chilis, Poblanos, Serranos, and Carolina Reapers growing but I started them in the winter with some grow lights given to me by Skysoldier on the forum.

Beans are easy, as are carrots, and it's a good climate to grow rhubarb if you like that. Rhubarb is darn near impossible back home.
 
Welcome to gardening up North.

I had a learning curve from gardening in Ohio. The season is shorter so I start some seeds ahead of time. Our yard is a little shady even with tree removal so that doesn't help. I order seeds from Johnny's and Baker Creek. I look for short season and cold tolerant varieties of seeds. The cooler weather usually means I'm fighting powdery mildew on squash by August.

I had to start doing tomatoes in containers and put my carrots in with them.

Took 15 hornworms off the tomatoes but got them early before they did too much damage. Not too many Japanese beetles this year but I think the chickens are getting them. I have more issues with aphids and voles here. Garden is fenced so no worries about deer or groundhogs.

Our basement has boulder walls. I keep winter squash into March down there. The key for me is to wash the squash and wipe the outside with a very light bleach water solution.

Post up your pickle recipe!
 
Plot out an area that has a good amount of sun and how large an area you want to grow. I have raised beds and they are easy to manage, especially if you don't have a large area. Raised bed require more watering but weeding is minimal. NE is an easy place to grow most vegetables, obviously the season is short so start your plants inside. When transplanting in May, take straw to cover the new plants so it won't have a night time cold shock. Straw keeps the heat in. Blood meal is a good fertilizer and helps keeps most pests out. Put up a sturdy fence and have a .22 ready for the pests that aren't bothered by repellants. If crows become a problem, shoot a couple or find them dead on the road and hang them around the garden. Best scarecrows are dead ones. If you can, and and already have an area chosen, rototill it before the ground freezes. Winter snow and the spring thaw will put plenty of oxygen into the soil.
 
I've been gardening for about 4 seasons now, so I'm very much an amateur but have learned a lot each season. Started with just a few pots with tomatoes and stuff the first year and I've expanded to two 4x4 raised beds about 8" deep. Each season has been a lot different. The first couple years we got more tomatoes than we could handle. This year they're wicked slow and only a couple very small green ones are out there. In contrast to that, we've never gotten a single cuke before this year but the past few weeks have been nothing but cukes coming in. Beans have been the same, lots for a couple seasons, barely a meals worth this year.

As for starting seeds inside, the longer I do this I really only find that it's worth it for tomatoes and summer squashes. Carrots, cukes, and beans do just fine sowed directly. Same with herbs. Never had good luck with peppers of any kind.

Located in Massachusetts but I'd doubt VT is VASTLY different.

Good luck and experiment to find out what works best!
 
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Hey dixiejarhead-

I moved here from Tennessee a few years back and have actually found gardening a little easier. N Central Mass for me, but probably not that much different than VT. I just have a couple raised beds and containers since I travel a lot for work and want to keep things simple. 4' x 12' x ~12" high. Tilled the soil before building the frames and then filled with some nice, dark loam. Keeping them fed with plant compost.

Hornworms are here and occasionally you'll need to fight a horde of Japanese beetles. Otherwise not too many issues unless you have bears and deer raiding your stuff. The usual problems with rabbits.

I have not grown any okra yet but maybe next year. I think there are varieties that will grow OK in cool climates. Most things grow just fine but for some things you'll need to either start from plant or start indoors. Peppers in particular. I have some Hatch green chilis, Poblanos, Serranos, and Carolina Reapers growing but I started them in the winter with some grow lights given to me by Skysoldier on the forum.

Beans are easy, as are carrots, and it's a good climate to grow rhubarb if you like that. Rhubarb is darn near impossible back home.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey dixiejarhead-

I moved here from Tennessee a few years back and have actually found gardening a little easier. N Central Mass for me, but probably not that much different than VT. I just have a couple raised beds and containers since I travel a lot for work and want to keep things simple. 4' x 12' x ~12" high. Tilled the soil before building the frames and then filled with some nice, dark loam. Keeping them fed with plant compost.

Hornworms are here and occasionally you'll need to fight a horde of Japanese beetles. Otherwise not too many issues unless you have bears and deer raiding your stuff. The usual problems with rabbits.

I have not grown any okra yet but maybe next year. I think there are varieties that will grow OK in cool climates. Most things grow just fine but for some things you'll need to either start from plant or start indoors. Peppers in particular. I have some Hatch green chilis, Poblanos, Serranos, and Carolina Reapers growing but I started them in the winter with some grow lights given to me by Skysoldier on the forum.

Beans are easy, as are carrots, and it's a good climate to grow rhubarb if you like that. Rhubarb is darn near impossible back home.

Thank you Mountain! Yes, we will definitely do root crops... Not so much into Rhubarb. I like raised beds and plan on doing just that.

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Welcome to gardening up North.

I had a learning curve from gardening in Ohio. The season is shorter so I start some seeds ahead of time. Our yard is a little shady even with tree removal so that doesn't help. I order seeds from Johnny's and Baker Creek. I look for short season and cold tolerant varieties of seeds. The cooler weather usually means I'm fighting powdery mildew on squash by August.

I had to start doing tomatoes in containers and put my carrots in with them.

Took 15 hornworms off the tomatoes but got them early before they did too much damage. Not too many Japanese beetles this year but I think the chickens are getting them. I have more issues with aphids and voles here. Garden is fenced so no worries about deer or groundhogs.

Our basement has boulder walls. I keep winter squash into March down there. The key for me is to wash the squash and wipe the outside with a very light bleach water solution.

Post up your pickle recipe!

Awesome! Thank you, we will need a root cellar for sure. Will post up pickle recipe soon!
 
Plot out an area that has a good amount of sun and how large an area you want to grow. I have raised beds and they are easy to manage, especially if you don't have a large area. Raised bed require more watering but weeding is minimal. NE is an easy place to grow most vegetables, obviously the season is short so start your plants inside. When transplanting in May, take straw to cover the new plants so it won't have a night time cold shock. Straw keeps the heat in. Blood meal is a good fertilizer and helps keeps most pests out. Put up a sturdy fence and have a .22 ready for the pests that aren't bothered by repellants. If crows become a problem, shoot a couple or find them dead on the road and hang them around the garden. Best scarecrows are dead ones. If you can, and and already have an area chosen, rototill it before the ground freezes. Winter snow and the spring thaw will put plenty of oxygen into the soil.

Duly noted, thank you!
 
I've been gardening for about 4 seasons now, so I'm very much an amateur but have learned a lot each season. Started with just a few pots with tomatoes and stuff the first year and I've expanded to two 4x4 raised beds about 8" deep. Each season has been a lot different. The first couple years we got more tomatoes than we could handle. This year they're wicked slow and only a couple very small green ones are out there. In contrast to that, we've never gotten a single cuke before this year but the past few weeks have been nothing but cukes coming in. Beans have been the same, lots for a couple seasons, barely a meals worth this year.

As for starting seeds inside, the longer I do this I really only find that it's worth it for tomatoes and summer squashes. Carrots, cukes, and beans do just fine sowed directly. Same with herbs. Never had good luck with peppers of any kind.

Located in Massachusetts but I'd doubt VT is VASTLY different.

Good luck and experiment to find out what works best!

Awesome information, thank you!!!!

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You may want to take a class with Ben Falk. He's in VT and does some amazing things.

http://www.wholesystemsdesign.com/resilient-farm-homestead-book/

Appreciate the link, will check it out!
 
6a00d83451b91969e20163001b3627970d-pi.jpg

Not sure where in Vermont you are moving to, but this zone map will help you with the best time to plant seed stock (for your zone) and correlates with data on the back of the seed packs.
Good luck!
~Matt

Awesome info, thank you! Looks like the area we are looking in is 3a/3b zone. Eyeballing some acreage up there as well...
 
Hey dixiejarhead-

I moved here from Tennessee a few years back and have actually found gardening a little easier. N Central Mass for me, but probably not that much different than VT. I just have a couple raised beds and containers since I travel a lot for work and want to keep things simple. 4' x 12' x ~12" high. Tilled the soil before building the frames and then filled with some nice, dark loam. Keeping them fed with plant compost.

Hornworms are here and occasionally you'll need to fight a horde of Japanese beetles. Otherwise not too many issues unless you have bears and deer raiding your stuff. The usual problems with rabbits.

I have not grown any okra yet but maybe next year. I think there are varieties that will grow OK in cool climates. Most things grow just fine but for some things you'll need to either start from plant or start indoors. Peppers in particular. I have some Hatch green chilis, Poblanos, Serranos, and Carolina Reapers growing but I started them in the winter with some grow lights given to me by Skysoldier on the forum.

Beans are easy, as are carrots, and it's a good climate to grow rhubarb if you like that. Rhubarb is darn near impossible back home.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey dixiejarhead-

I moved here from Tennessee a few years back and have actually found gardening a little easier. N Central Mass for me, but probably not that much different than VT. I just have a couple raised beds and containers since I travel a lot for work and want to keep things simple. 4' x 12' x ~12" high. Tilled the soil before building the frames and then filled with some nice, dark loam. Keeping them fed with plant compost.

Hornworms are here and occasionally you'll need to fight a horde of Japanese beetles. Otherwise not too many issues unless you have bears and deer raiding your stuff. The usual problems with rabbits.

I have not grown any okra yet but maybe next year. I think there are varieties that will grow OK in cool climates. Most things grow just fine but for some things you'll need to either start from plant or start indoors. Peppers in particular. I have some Hatch green chilis, Poblanos, Serranos, and Carolina Reapers growing but I started them in the winter with some grow lights given to me by Skysoldier on the forum.

Beans are easy, as are carrots, and it's a good climate to grow rhubarb if you like that. Rhubarb is darn near impossible back home.

Not a big gardener - but the soil in New England can vary quite a bit. My home is on what used to farmland - probably a dairy farm. The topsoil is nice and it's about a foot thick. I have a friend who lives up in Bedford NH - who is clearing some land next to his house. He's pulling out stumps and pulling a lot of really big rocks - and what I found sort of surprising is that the topsoil on the part he's cleared is probably only about 3-4 inches thick at best. I suppose it's possibly that the contractor who built the house stripped the soil when it was built - but what he took down were tall straight pines that were probably at least 100ft high. I doubt pine needles probably contribute very well to nice thick topsoil.

I used to spend a decent amount of time up in VT - and one thing I did notice was that the soil up there was distinctly different that what I was used to do down here. Lots of dairy farms up there - and old farmland probably has a good thickness of top soil from a couple hundred years of cow crap and decaying grass and so forth. I'm guessing you might not find the same thing in other places.
 
Not a big gardener - but the soil in New England can vary quite a bit. My home is on what used to farmland - probably a dairy farm. The topsoil is nice and it's about a foot thick. I have a friend who lives up in Bedford NH - who is clearing some land next to his house. He's pulling out stumps and pulling a lot of really big rocks - and what I found sort of surprising is that the topsoil on the part he's cleared is probably only about 3-4 inches thick at best. I suppose it's possibly that the contractor who built the house stripped the soil when it was built - but what he took down were tall straight pines that were probably at least 100ft high. I doubt pine needles probably contribute very well to nice thick topsoil.

I used to spend a decent amount of time up in VT - and one thing I did notice was that the soil up there was distinctly different that what I was used to do down here. Lots of dairy farms up there - and old farmland probably has a good thickness of top soil from a couple hundred years of cow crap and decaying grass and so forth. I'm guessing you might not find the same thing in other places.
Great information brother, thank you! That was kind of my take on it as well based on the photos. Looking at a home on a couple acres not far from an established apple orchard. Planning on a lot of canning and stock rotation as well. Thank God ya'll have basements most every home...
 
I read once, somewhere, that Vermont farms produce 2 things in abundance: rocks, and gravity. [laugh]

OP: I'd go to the local hardware/feed store/general store sort of place, and first, admit to being a Flatlander, and From Away.

Then, ask the locals what's up. As noted above, soils vary greatly from one area to another. That old stone fence may make the difference: one side may have been a stony pasture, the other tillable ground. Local knowledge is very important.

Oh, and about that apple orchard: It was likely planted there, as the trees don't care about rocks. Now, if you're gardening, as opposed to farming, it's less of an issue, but, still, ask the neighbors.
 
Great information brother, thank you! That was kind of my take on it as well based on the photos. Looking at a home on a couple acres not far from an established apple orchard. Planning on a lot of canning and stock rotation as well. Thank God ya'll have basements most every home...

If I was looking to buy land in New England - and wanted to grow stuff on it - I would do a core sample and see how deep the topsoil goes. Also look for signs of where the bedrock is located. Things can very greatly - some areas you might have a foot of soil with bedrock just a foot or two below ground - other areas you're going to have many feet of soil - but with big-ass rocks just below the surface.

My house is on what I know to be former farmland. I have gone down as much as six feet digging for a foundation and drainage piping on my lot. What I find is about a foot or so of topsoil - followed by 1.5- 2 ft of "subsoil" - and below that is what is referred to as glacial till - which is (at least in this area) a gravelly / clay mix that can be pretty hard - but at least is not full of massive rocks. The massive rocks - sit on top of that glacial till layer. By massive - I mean ones like the pic I just posted. Do enough digging around here at least - and you can visualize what the glaciers left behind when they receded. Then over a few thousand years the soil built up and buried all those massive glacial pebbles that were left behind. I have only hit one place on my lot that *may* have been bedrock (might have been just a really massive rock) - and that was I believe some sort of sandstone because it was pretty easy to break it apart. My father's home on the other hand - had to have it's foundation blasted out when they put it in back in the 70's - because about a foot or two under the ground - is granite bedrock. The topsoil in the non disturbed section of his lot is about a foot thick - with just a very thin layer of subsoil beneath that and the bedrock.

My friend up in Bedford NH (that's one of his rocks in the pic) - has about 3-4 inches of topsoil at best - with a layer of subsoil - and then the glacial till below that maybe 2-3 feet down. The part of his lot that he's clearing though - was pine forest. Possibly never cleared before now. So the topsoil is likely thin because I doubt that pine needles contribute to topsoil formation the same way a deciduous forest does with leaves falling and (usually) a lot of undergrowth that dies and decays over time.

So - if I was looking to actually grow stuff - I would think about doing core samples on the specific lots you're thinking of buying. That way you can get some idea of what you're getting for soil.

You can of course "make" soil with composting - or buy soil. Down in this area - there's plenty of places where you can get topsoil delivered by the truckload. Maybe something to investigate along with buying property - see if it's even possible to buy topsoil in the area you're looking at.
 
This is what New England grows best. Really big potatoes:

View attachment 206409

HAHAHAHAH!!!!

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If I was looking to buy land in New England - and wanted to grow stuff on it - I would do a core sample and see how deep the topsoil goes. Also look for signs of where the bedrock is located. Things can very greatly - some areas you might have a foot of soil with bedrock just a foot or two below ground - other areas you're going to have many feet of soil - but with big-ass rocks just below the surface.

My house is on what I know to be former farmland. I have gone down as much as six feet digging for a foundation and drainage piping on my lot. What I find is about a foot or so of topsoil - followed by 1.5- 2 ft of "subsoil" - and below that is what is referred to as glacial till - which is (at least in this area) a gravelly / clay mix that can be pretty hard - but at least is not full of massive rocks. The massive rocks - sit on top of that glacial till layer. By massive - I mean ones like the pic I just posted. Do enough digging around here at least - and you can visualize what the glaciers left behind when they receded. Then over a few thousand years the soil built up and buried all those massive glacial pebbles that were left behind. I have only hit one place on my lot that *may* have been bedrock (might have been just a really massive rock) - and that was I believe some sort of sandstone because it was pretty easy to break it apart. My father's home on the other hand - had to have it's foundation blasted out when they put it in back in the 70's - because about a foot or two under the ground - is granite bedrock. The topsoil in the non disturbed section of his lot is about a foot thick - with just a very thin layer of subsoil beneath that and the bedrock.

My friend up in Bedford NH (that's one of his rocks in the pic) - has about 3-4 inches of topsoil at best - with a layer of subsoil - and then the glacial till below that maybe 2-3 feet down. The part of his lot that he's clearing though - was pine forest. Possibly never cleared before now. So the topsoil is likely thin because I doubt that pine needles contribute to topsoil formation the same way a deciduous forest does with leaves falling and (usually) a lot of undergrowth that dies and decays over time.

So - if I was looking to actually grow stuff - I would think about doing core samples on the specific lots you're thinking of buying. That way you can get some idea of what you're getting for soil.

You can of course "make" soil with composting - or buy soil. Down in this area - there's plenty of places where you can get topsoil delivered by the truckload. Maybe something to investigate along with buying property - see if it's even possible to buy topsoil in the area you're looking at.

appreciate the advice, will check that out!
 
I read once, somewhere, that Vermont farms produce 2 things in abundance: rocks, and gravity. [laugh]

OP: I'd go to the local hardware/feed store/general store sort of place, and first, admit to being a Flatlander, and From Away.

Then, ask the locals what's up. As noted above, soils vary greatly from one area to another. That old stone fence may make the difference: one side may have been a stony pasture, the other tillable ground. Local knowledge is very important.

Oh, and about that apple orchard: It was likely planted there, as the trees don't care about rocks. Now, if you're gardening, as opposed to farming, it's less of an issue, but, still, ask the neighbors.

Yes more than likely we will be doing a lot of raised bed gardening. We normally make our own compost from coffee grounds, banana peel and eggshells. Figured to mix in some local soil to create a good loamy mix for the veggie garden. chicken litter to help it along as well.
 
Yes more than likely we will be doing a lot of raised bed gardening. We normally make our own compost from coffee grounds, banana peel and eggshells. Figured to mix in some local soil to create a good loamy mix for the veggie garden. chicken litter to help it along as well.

If you're up in VT - there will likely be cow manure easily available.
 
It sounds like you are going to be in "The Kingdom." Most communities put a lot of emphasis on composting. Some counties collect compost materials at the local drop off sights, compost the material, and sell it very reasonably. It really is a great area to be in if you plan to spend time on gardening and general homestead resilience.
 
It sounds like you are going to be in "The Kingdom." Most communities put a lot of emphasis on composting. Some counties collect compost materials at the local drop off sights, compost the material, and sell it very reasonably. It really is a great area to be in if you plan to spend time on gardening and general homestead resilience.
Thank you! Yes, I think I may fit in nicely! Love to compost and already looks like I may have a line on some organic compost material from the cow farm...
 
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