Garand sights question

[bdb]

I finally got my new (bought 6 months ago) SA Garand out to the range Saturday AM and then again this morning. It shot way high and way left with my normal setup which is bottom out the elevation and come up 10 or so clicks and the windage in the center. I kept adjusting until I am fairly close at 100 and 200 but still high and a bit left. My sight picture is the post in the center of the target circle not a "6 o'clock hold" with the target lollypopped.

So, in the end my rear sight is all the way bottomed out on elevation and way to the right as can be seen. The target is below at 200 yards and I did one more click to the right after shooting this group.

So, I guess my question is, do I just accept it as is and shoot accordingly or do I try and correct it? I don't even know how to mess with the elevation once it's bottomed out in order to bring the groups down more.

 

[Sweeney]

It's tough to tell but the barrel may not be clocked fully. It looks like it needs to tighten a bit which would help with both your windage and elevation problems.

Also, make sure the front sight is centered on the base.

 

[bdb]

I'll strip it all down tonight and check everything. I did a quick search for replacement front sights for a Garand and never found anything that talks about different height posts. Do they sell them in various heights?

 

[Stryker]

Of the two Garands I have gotten from CMP, both of the front sites had been pushed out of center (not sure if during storage, handling or shipment), so as mentioned above check that front sight is centered and tightened.

ETA: Found an older picture in photobucket that shows one of the front sights as delivered

 

[Wildweasel]

http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-43173.html is a thread on how to tweak things.

 

[bdb]

Stryker, I'll check the front sight tonight. I have been shooting my HRA mostly and honestly never gave this one much of a once over so it could br out of center.

Wildweasel, actually I have just been on the CMP forums looking around and found two other relevant posts as well. The one below and one talking about the new stocks may need to have some wood removed near the tip as the barrel isn't free floating. I have some things to check.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=69157

 

[bdb]

My front sight was a little off to the right which explains a little of the "hitting left" issue. The front sight measures 0.720" and spec says .0.728" Doesn't sound like its enough to be 5-6" high at 200 yards. I'll do the mod listed above in order to get another 4-6 clicks of down on the rear before I order a new front sight. Progress at least. I took it apart and checking on the free float aspect later tonight.

if nothing else maybe it helps someone else searching for info having the same issues since the CMP forums seem to imply my issues are pretty normal.

 

[Sweeney]

0.008" shorter front sight will put it 2" higher at 200 yards.

 

[mac1911]

My front sight was a little off to the right which explains a little of the "hitting left" issue. The front sight measures 0.720" and spec says .0.728" Doesn't sound like its enough to be 5-6" high at 200 yards. I'll do the mod listed above in order to get another 4-6 clicks of down on the rear before I order a new front sight. Progress at least. I took it apart and checking on the free float aspect later tonight.

if nothing else maybe it helps someone else searching for info having the same issues since the CMP forums seem to imply my issues are pretty normal.

Your condition is not normal.
US weapons command over haul manual had a specified. Accuracy and targeting spec.
Judging by your group in the pic your "accuracy " is good.
Targeting : http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...now-today-M1-quot-accuracy-and-targeting-quot

Now there are some shooters that like to have the rear sight as low as possible for shooting matches. Enables a good solid cheek weld. I'm almost certain your stock is hindering the action someway.
Many of the cmp/boyds/dupage stocks have fit issues. Cmp new stocks are 3 for 3 with mine but really do you expect much for a stock set that cost less than 150$? Thing is the stock works and that's good enough for cmp and USGI.
That said you will want to look around cmp forums and the CMP home page. http://thecmp.org/training-tech/armorers-corner/

More stock fittin http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread...g/showthread.php?t=147599&highlight=stock+fit

Some pictures of the stock might help.

 

[Steve Marshall]

One of the reasons they're called adjustable sights- adjust the sights.

 

[mac1911]

One of the reasons they're called adjustable sights- adjust the sights.

Right but he needs to come down another few/couple moa to get to point of aim. He's bottomed out.

That's not good for a M1. Unless of course your setting it up by altering the front sight to be this way.
If that rifle was inspected it would fail the targeting and accuracy test.

Basically the test calls for 8 clicks up +/- 2 clicks to get the elevation and allows the front sight to be moved to get the shot group in the " targeting" zone. Mind you the specifications are pretty loose.

 

[mac1911]

OP if you dont want to mess with the stock or find "why" it shoots high you can modify the rear aperture

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=104439&highlight=cmp+special+shoots+high

lapriester on the cmp forums is good knowledge. PM him hes always willing to help.

You could also swap stocks with your other rifle and see if anything changes. Be sure to allow a few shots for your action to settle a little.

 

[bdb]

mac1911, thanks for the info. Yes the mod to the rear aperture is the mod I read about that I had planned to do (post #8). I also suspect the stock is part of the issue. It was a new stock and I refinished it and the stock is VERY tight. I suspect I will need to do some fitting work and remove some wood. No biggie. I needed another project anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

0.008" shorter front sight will put it 2" higher at 200 yards.

Well, that is significant enough for me to order a replacement as part of my remediation. Thanks.

 

[mac1911]

mac1911, thanks for the info. Yes the mod to the rear aperture is the mod I read about that I had planned to do (post #8). I also suspect the stock is part of the issue. It was a new stock and I refinished it and the stock is VERY tight. I suspect I will need to do some fitting work and remove some wood. No biggie. I needed another project anyway.

- - - Updated - - -



Well, that is significant enough for me to order a replacement as part of my remediation. Thanks.

dont know how you measured the front sight post but .008 can easily be a error depending on how and what you measure with.

 

[Steve Marshall]

By "adjust the sights" I meant replacing the front sight for elevation. I'm not familiar enough with tight stocks affecting elevation to comment, but I am familiar with High Power shooters modifying M1A sights for a 6 O'Clock hold. I'm pretty sure they did that back in the day also with Garands.

 

[Stryker]

dont know how you measured the front sight post but .008 can easily be a error depending on how and what you measure with.

.008 inches is 200 microns or about 4-5 human hairs thick.

Not to say that sight height isn't an issuehere, but I know I am not going to able to hold my sight on target with that level of discrimination

 

[mac1911]

By "adjust the sights" I meant replacing the front sight for elevation. I'm not familiar enough with tight stocks affecting elevation to comment, but I am familiar with High Power shooters modifying M1A sights for a 6 O'Clock hold. I'm pretty sure they did that back in the day also with Garands.

The garand in good working order should not need a front sight elevation correction. Now nature of the beast and all things that could be wrong can add up to having problems.
If you poke around long enough you will find the new wood has a host of issues.
A M1 or m14 should not run out of downward elevation @ 200 yards.

Match shooters will modify their sights to fit their needs distances and ammunition they use.

This may or may not be useful.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M14-FAQs/targeting.htm
And this
http://www.fulton-armory.com/\faqs\M14-FAQs\sighting_in.htm

For the OP setting up per the instructions in these post would require a taller front sight.

Just for the sake of comparison
My garands all have different zeros.
My HRA service grade with new stock is 5 clicks up for 100 yards.
My 1942 SA with period correct wood is 12 clicks for 100 yards
The others are in between. With 6-8
I bought a new cmp stock for my 1955 HRA not only did it shoot high like yours the barrel channel was actually twisted. CMP took care of it but it goes to show you the new wood is not always good.

 

[bdb]

My HRA is 8 clicks up from bottom for 100 yards. I measured the front sight by taking it off the rifle and using my dial caliper fropm the base to the top of the post. I did order a new sight from CMP, just because, well it's $10 + shipping so why not.

 

[Sweeney]

dont know how you measured the front sight post but .008 can easily be a error depending on how and what you measure with.

If you use a yard stick, yes, that could easily be within error. If you used a micrometer...

 

[mac1911]

If you use a yard stick, yes, that could easily be within error. If you used a micrometer...

true so true, I will look in my overhaul manual and get the plus minus on the front sight.

still something is not right when you have zero elevation correction with even a sight thats +/- .008

- - - Updated - - -

My HRA is 8 clicks up from bottom for 100 yards. I measured the front sight by taking it off the rifle and using my dial caliper fropm the base to the top of the post. I did order a new sight from CMP, just because, well it's $10 + shipping so why not.

thats what I would call "normal" somewhere between 6-12 clicks for 100 yards. it will vary from shooter to shooter though.

There is no "spec" for front sight heights. In the over haul manual.
.072ish seams to be a common number I see out on the web
[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aYG-PrLrivc[/video]
Minute 2:45 10 clicks up is the "standard"

 

[bdb]

Well my new front post came in from CMP today. .697 so I will be staying with the one that came on it, so much for that plan

 

[mac1911]

Well my new front post came in from CMP today. .697 so I will be staying with the one that came on it, so much for that plan

Problem with front sight from CMP its not new.

You could add some expoxy to the front sight......but I still think your problem is in the stock. Remove the hand guards reinstall the receiver onto the stock. lock down the trigger guard and see if the barrel is touching the barrel channel ?

or try it in your other stock ?