• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Frustration..

btnh6668

btnh6668

NES Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
1,926
Likes
1,953
Location
Southcoast
Feedback: 22 / 0 / 0
I am still a newbie when it comes to shooting but although i have a great time shooting i find myself getting more frustrated. I can almost guarantee I'm doing things wrong but i cannot be sure. Im holding the gun correctly according to some vids i have seen on the net and my stance is that of many i see shooting. My accuracy is no greater now then it was when i first started. Granted Ive probably only shot about 2500 rounds but still.

Using a normal silhouette target im getting 98% of the shots in the black so im hitting what matters but sadly im aiming at the center and the shots are all over the place. Many of them low which annoys me because my sights are lined up and im aiming at the top of the center. What techniques did some of you guys use when starting off?
 
You would benefit a great deal from some training.

A weekend class or one-on-one with a coach would be the thing to do.

It is difficult to diagnose your own shooting errors. It makes it more difficult when you don't have a baseline to start from.

When an instructor watches you, they know what to look for and how to correct it. Many times, the errors you are making are the same errors the instructor made back when they were a noob. They have "BTDT" and can oftentimes head off shooting errors by teaching the correct methods beforehand.




.
 
Maybe get away from the silhouttes and go to a smaller target, so you're not aiming at the center of a larger target.
 
Put up a paper plate. Start at a real close distance - say 4 yards. Shoot for the center of the plate. After the first shot, aim at the bullet hole in the plate. Shoot slowly, concentrate on sight picture and smooth trigger pull. Once you can shoot an acceptably tight group on demand, move out to 7 yards and repeat. Then 10 yards, then 15. By the time you can shoot an acceptable group at 25 yards - ON DEMAND, every time - you should have enough CORRECT reps of good trigger pull that it will be second nature and NOW you can begin worrying about improving your speed.

Regards
John

+1 to the people who say get some training or coaching. This is NEVER a bad idea.
 
-Eye Dominance is the first thing I'd double check. This is the eye you should aim with. Quick exercises to determine eye dominance are easily googled.

-The shooter's grip is just as important, and a gun grip that is too big or too small will cause complications during the trigger squeeze

- breathing

-comfortable stance when starting out. Support yourself on or against an object when starting out. Work your way up to combat or tactical positions over time, as you desire. Don't stand a certain way if you are quickly getting tired standing or holding the gun.

-smooth trigger squeeze

The more you force yourself to get a bulls eye, the harder it will become. Have fun, think about what is happening, and good shots will come to you.
 
you a target that is mostly white. That way you won't lose your sights.

Don't shoot a cannon. Shoot a .22 if you don't have one borrow one.

Front sight, front sight, front sight.


Take a lesson.

--Mike

PM Me if you are in the worcester area and I will meet you at the range.
 
All good advise so far. Training is key. What are you shooting? If it's a big caliber, moving to a 22lr to start will be key. Big bang handguns can cause issues for a new shooter. Flinching and bad trigger pull are some of the main ones. Also, make sure you are keeping your eyes open at the end of your trigger pull. A lot of new shooters actually close their eyes at the last millisecond before the shot happens and they don't even realize it. This effects accuracy. Also, don't yank on the trigger. Start slow. Slowly squeeze the trigger. So slow that you actually feel the release. Concentrate on your front sight/target alignment as you squeeze. This will help any flinching issue you have.

Best advise, relax, take it slow and just enjoy yourself so you don't get frustrated.
 
I have never shot a hand gun that did not have a heavy trigger.. you guys think that may be part of the problem? I don't think that's my only issue but i suppose its a start.
 
I'll second the target size suggestion. A few weeks ago I found that my groups were just as good (i.e. 95% or better in the black) with one particular target close and far away. The only thing that changed is the perceived size of the target.

Most likely your making a whole bunch of mistakes, finding someone who can watch you and point out mistakes would definitely help.
 
Gooman24 said:
I don't know where you are located but if you are near me(Haverhill) then I would be willing to help.
Click to expand...

Thank you for willing to take your time to help but i am about 2 hrs away from you. Im in the New Bedford area for better or worse. Judging by some of the interesting characters i saw driving through New Bedford today im going to say worse.[grin]
 
btnh6668 said:
I have never shot a hand gun that did not have a heavy trigger.. you guys think that may be part of the problem? I don't think that's my only issue but i suppose its a start.
Click to expand...

No, that is not a part of the problem. I can soundly trash many guys shooting 1911s with a stock Smith & Wesson double action revolver with a 9 -10 lb trigger pull and I ain't no Jerry Miculek.

You need professional coaching and training and you need it like yesterday. Some people can be self-taught. Most cannot do it. It's no big deal. One just has to understand one's own learning style and adjust accordingly.
 
btnh6668 said:
I am still a newbie when it comes to shooting but although i have a great time shooting i find myself getting more frustrated. I can almost guarantee I'm doing things wrong but i cannot be sure. Im holding the gun correctly according to some vids i have seen on the net and my stance is that of many i see shooting. My accuracy is no greater now then it was when i first started. Granted Ive probably only shot about 2500 rounds but still.

Using a normal silhouette target im getting 98% of the shots in the black so im hitting what matters but sadly im aiming at the center and the shots are all over the place. Many of them low which annoys me because my sights are lined up and im aiming at the top of the center. What techniques did some of you guys use when starting off?
Click to expand...

I am about at the same point as you. Being new to handguns, one of the things I find has been helpful is to not just look at, but to print and shoot at shooter correction charts. The last few times I have been to the range I have printed about a half dozen of these targets and shot them. http://www.ammoman.com/graphics/diagn_right.jpg The nice thing is I can look at my shot targets and get instant analysis. Still not as good as professional training (that’s coming next) but cheap and better than nothing. Just my 2 cents hope it helps you.
 
btnh6668 said:
Thank you for willing to take your time to help but i am about 2 hrs away from you. Im in the New Bedford area for better or worse. Judging by some of the interesting characters i saw driving through New Bedford today im going to say worse.[grin]
Click to expand...

Yeah that's a bit of a drive. I have been there once. If you could think of a time you would be in my area or willing to be - I would still be willing to help. People have done it for me.
 
Andy in NH

When "Andy in NH" comments about how to shoot and learn, I suggest that you all listen intently. Andy does know what he is talking about. Disclaimer: I know Andy and consider him a friend.
 
I'll second the recommendation for some training. The NEShooters Defensive Handgun 100 class is a great value at $250 for 2 days of excellent instruction. Jim Conway is usually at Westford on Sunday afternoons giving out free samples. It's a bit of a drive for you but it would definitely be worth it for the full class.

You may want to post asking for someone to help you out that's close to you. Maybe ask at your club?
 
New shooter

As a new shooter get yourself a good 22 pistol. and there are 2 things to shooting, SIGHT ALIMENT AND TRIGGER. Get a perfect sight picture and then pull the trigger stright back without desturbing the sight picture. Sound easy but it's the hardest part.. Maybe try shooting a bullseye match or two with a good 22 auto loader. Sometimes with the larger targets you can lose the front sight rear sight picture with all that black in the larger targets. And dry firing can only help your sight picture trigger contol.

Just my 2 cents worth

Dan Long
Boston, MA
 
I believe i have found my problem. Its my trigger pull. I shot my pps thats had trigger work done to it and my grouping were much better. Not great but much better. My biggest problem is the trigger on my m&p, once i get that taken care of i believe my groupings will look much better. Now its just a matter of practicing my trigger pull. I see a lot of dry firing in my future.
 
  • Most "gun fights" are from a distance of less than 10 feet.
  • Keep your training no further away than 15 feet!
  • Start off very close to the targets, say muzzle no more than 3 feet.
  • Practice doing two bullets through one hole at that distance. GREAT confidence builder!
  • Move back a step at a time, doing the two bullets through one hole exercise until you are back to about 8 feet.
  • At 8 feet, switch to "center body mass" exercises: Shoot most of the bullets in a 6" circle.
  • Don't try shooting a hand gun at 20 yards! You'll only get discouraged.
  • The grip is important. Do not shoot TV style. Both hands on the handle of the gun, the outer hand should clamp the inner hand to the gun like a vice.
  • Thumbs parallel and together on the side of the gun.
  • Use "trigger reset" to obtain minimal movement of the weapon between shots.
  • Trigger reset: Fire first round, and hold the trigger to the back of the trigger guard. Slowly release pressure until you feel a click. At that point, the gun will fire again with slight pressure on the trigger.
  • Some guns don't have trigger reset features. But if yours does, use it!
  • Stance is important.
  • Don't lean back
  • Assume a stance like you would if you were going to resist someone pushing you over.
  • Lean forward a bit
  • Your body will become a firm foundation or keeping the gun from moving during shots and between them.
 
Last edited:
Duke
You said that most gun fights are from a distance of less than 10 feet.
and, Keep your training no further away than 15 feet!

You are quoting from an FBI report dealing with officers killed in gun fights.
There are no studies by anyone about the distances where the officers survived. The study that you mention covered distances all the way out to 50 feet where officers were killed.

Any recommendation to limit training to 15 feet is utter nonsense and very dangerous. My training runs from contact distance all the way out to 90 yards, and normally is at less than 15 yards
 
3 key points to accurate shooting:
in this order:
Trigger control, Sight allignment and proper position.

Trigger control:if you can't release the trigger without moving the gun you will never shoot well.
Sight allignment: if the open sights are not alligned perfect it will not hit well.

Proper position: if your not consistant and steady between when the trigger breaks and the bullet exits the barrel it will not hit well.

Trigger contol is the most important.
That is why most match shooters have their trigger worked on to make it consistant and usually lighter.
 
M1911
We are trying to have Randy Cain come back in 2010
I will keep you advised.
BTW, I would have a hard time choosing between Randy Cain and Louis Awerbuck. They are both Master instructors. It is to believe that Randy started out as a country musician
 
I know this sounds super "old School", but see if you can get Jeff Cooper's "Complete Book of Modern Handgunning". Read all of it, but towards the end, he has a shooting program that I think is pretty cool. Start off by 'dry practicing' at home. 10 perfect shots with no ammo. Then head to the range. Shoot at a close distance. 10 feet or so, get all the shots in a 3 inch circle. Then move out to 15 feet, 20 feet, etc. Then try the same in different positions. Prone, two handed, one handed, etc. He says it may take 6 months to get to be a good handgun shoot! Its really a good book, even though its old. However, he is the Guru!

The Fitchburh library has the book. If your library will get it for you. Good Luck!
[rockon]
 
btnh6668 said:
I believe i have found my problem. Its my trigger pull. I shot my pps thats had trigger work done to it and my grouping were much better. Not great but much better. My biggest problem is the trigger on my m&p, once i get that taken care of i believe my groupings will look much better. Now its just a matter of practicing my trigger pull. I see a lot of dry firing in my future.
Click to expand...

Are you a member of a club that you can bring a guest to? If so, I will gladly come to you with targets and knowledge and see what I can do to help you. All I need is 50 rounds of either 40S&W or 9MM.

E mail in my profile.
 
Back
Top Bottom