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Form 1 Approval & Engraving

F

FNHFAL

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Correct me if I am wrong. It doesn't matter if you wait to have your receiver engraved until after your form 1 is approved, right? I went the DIY trust route. I don't want to have the engraving done in case there is a problem.
 
No, it doesn't matter, most people prefer that in case their trust name or something gets rejected. Frankly though with all the waiting and BS I would just get it done so I can shoot the thing the day my stamp came back, but you're free to do either.

-Mike
 
I would think about engraving before submitting. What would you rather deal with?

Extra engraving on a receiver that didn't get approved?

or

Extra tax stamp for a receiver that was lost in the mail, damaged by engraver, engraved wrong, damaged in transit...

2 cents

Plus you can open the envelope and go blasting! [mg]
 
You can avoid the risk associated with shipping by simply bringing it to an engraver and waiting. Then the engraver doesn't have to have any firearms specific licenses.

I've used an engraver in a mall and I've used an engraver that normally does aircraft instrument panels.
 
Not to nit pick too much.. But.. consider this. Once that receiver is registered, it is at that point an NFA item.
If you have to leave it someplace to be engraved, that could be potentially a bad thing. And if it is in Ma, unless the engraver has a green card, it gets into grey area. Or if you are taking it out of state to be engraved, again, a gray area.

I would say engrave before approval. And be present while it is being engraved.

Really, nothing will happen. but, just in case..
 
seanc said:
Not to nit pick too much.. But.. consider this. Once that receiver is registered, it is at that point an NFA item.
If you have to leave it someplace to be engraved, that could be potentially a bad thing. And if it is in Ma, unless the engraver has a green card, it gets into grey area. Or if you are taking it out of state to be engraved, again, a gray area.

I would say engrave before approval. And be present while it is being engraved.

Really, nothing will happen. but, just in case..
Click to expand...

They don't need a green card for all NFA.. it's not always a machine gun
 
seanc said:
Not to nit pick too much.. But.. consider this. Once that receiver is registered, it is at that point an NFA item.
If you have to leave it someplace to be engraved, that could be potentially a bad thing. And if it is in Ma, unless the engraver has a green card, it gets into grey area. Or if you are taking it out of state to be engraved, again, a gray area.

I would say engrave before approval. And be present while it is being engraved.

Really, nothing will happen. but, just in case..
Click to expand...

The receiver itself is not an NFA firearm, even after the Form 1 is approved. Only the complete SBR assembly is considered an NFA firearm.

See the answer to question 8 on the following page:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

Also, as was mentioned before, a "green card" is only required to possess a machine gun in MA. SBRs are not machine guns, so no green card is required.
 
seanc said:
Not to nit pick too much.. But.. consider this. Once that receiver is registered, it is at that point an NFA item.
If you have to leave it someplace to be engraved, that could be potentially a bad thing. And if it is in Ma, unless the engraver has a green card, it gets into grey area. Or if you are taking it out of state to be engraved, again, a gray area.

I would say engrave before approval. And be present while it is being engraved.

Really, nothing will happen. but, just in case..
Click to expand...

Its not NFA once its engraved. Its NFA once either the stamp comes back, or you make it into a NFA configuration. (which would be illegal if you didn't yet have the stamp.

But it still is a firearm per federal law.

Remember, we need to differentiate between fed and MA.

Per MA, it is nothing. Its not a firearm in any way.


So you only have to comply with Fed law.

Federal law does not regulate the transfer of firearms between non-licensees. So a receipt is all you would need, provided he is in the same state.


Don

- - - Updated - - -

mlaboss said:
The receiver itself is not an NFA firearm, even after the Form 1 is approved. Only the complete SBR assembly is considered an NFA firearm.

See the answer to question 8 on the following page:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

Also, as was mentioned before, a "green card" is only required to possess a machine gun in MA. SBRs are not machine guns, so no green card is required.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I was told by an ATF inspector that even if I put a 16" upper on a registered SBR, I still need to do a 5320 to take it out of state.

Is that wrong?

- - - Updated - - -

I answered my own question

Basically I can take it out of state as long as I leave the short barrel at home.

Don

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.
 
dcmdon said:
Hmm. I was told by an ATF inspector that even if I put a 16" upper on a registered SBR, I still need to do a 5320 to take it out of state.

Is that wrong?

- - - Updated - - -

I answered my own question

Basically I can take it out of state as long as I leave the short barrel at home.

Don

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.
Click to expand...

Yep, you got it. That FAQ page is very handy for dispelling some common misconceptions about how the NFA works in relation to SBRs/SBSes.
 
Thanks for the replies. This item is going to require a cut and crown after the form 1 is approved. So I don't mind waiting to make sure it gets approved.
 
doughboy said:
I had mine done at Jack's Machine Shop in Hanson, MA. Here is the post/thread:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ving-in-Mass?p=4057182&viewfull=1#post4057182
Click to expand...

DIYers and jeweler engraving enthusiasts should be aware of the particulars of NFA engravings.

US Code Title 27 CFR 479
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=27:3.0.1.2.4.7.27.2

Ask the teenager at the mall if he is engraving to .003x1/16th... [rolleyes]

Machine shop might know but the guys at the jeweler, sweatshop etc in my town don't have a clue...
 
Romokid said:
Trust's name and the City and State also are to be .003 x 1/16th. Info here.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Only the serial number has to be 1/16" in height. There is no height requirement for the City and State, only a depth requirement.

From the law:

§479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1⁄16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and
Click to expand...
 
I brought the depth spec to the mall engraver's attention. They had no problem meeting that requirement.
When I told him the value of the receiver he was engraving (its an old bushmaster pre-ban) the kid called the manager, who did the set up and then left to leave the kid to push the GO button.
 
As I mentioned on another thread, I had Jack's Machine Shop in Hanson, MA laser engrave two of my lowers last week. They did an excellent job in about 30 minutes. No need to send your lowers out of state and you support a local business.
 

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