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For the plumbers: Hot water heater questions

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by boatman, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    you might want to check the plumbing codes.
    I have heard that you can NOT just replace an 80 gallon tank with a new electric one....it needs to be an energy efficient heat pump design now. Not sure how big a straight electric water heater you can install before that rule kicks in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  2. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    Reps for having brass nipples [laugh]

    Life is too short to pay that much attention to the cold water heater.

    When it goes, I replace it. Only flooded once. Usually it just stops heating the water.
     
  3. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    I had my sacrificial anodes removed when I was a kid.
     
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  4. silversquirrel

    silversquirrel NES Member

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    Yes. Very common, and highly efficient. Can easily meet high demand. The catch is there needs to be Gas utility or LP Tanks.
     
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  5. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    There are electric on demand heaters and they work fine.

    I have a smallish one installed that can keep up with a shower "usually" all on it's own. The size I have doesn't heat enough volume to supply a whole house usage. What it DOES do is it keeps delivering hot water even if the conventional cold water heater exhausts all it's hot water. (three females in the house)
     
  6. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    The guy said the apartments don't have enough juice for electric "on demand" hot water heaters, which is why I asked if he has gas lines or propane available... :rolleyes:
     
  7. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    This is NES. One does not READ the posts before RESPONDING.

    [thinking]
     
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  8. Bob Y.

    Bob Y.

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    Hello,

    My name is Bob. I am the inventor of the Talking Water Tank Minder. My invention is presently being used in New Jersey. It is a brand-new product that took three years to develop and patent. My invention prevents a failing hot water tank from damaging your apartment, house, or condo due to water damage.

    The Talking Water Tank Minder is a wonderful new product that can be used over and over again. It can be attached to any hot water tank. The Talking Water Tank Minder consists of a control unit that magnetically attaches to any hot water tank. The system also comes with a 304 stainless steel electronically-controlled, 3/4-inch, full-port valve that will shut off your cold water input side to your hot water tank when your tank fails, thus protecting your home from water damage.

    One thing for sure is that your tank is guaranteed to fail; it is only a matter of time. There is also a sensor that is made out of 304 stainless steel that is designed and engineered to last for many, many years of use. This sensor sits on the floor near the bottom of the hot water tank. Everyone who lives in a condo loves this device because it stops catastrophic water damage from occurring that can cause thousands of dollars of water damage that these hot water tank can easily cause.

    If you would like more information, I will be very happy to send you a booklet on the Talking Water Tank Minder. It is my opinion and the opinion of others that this system is cheap insurance that will allow your water tank to last as long as it can, thus saving you money from replacing your tank before it is time to replace it. Hot water tanks on the average last about 6 to 10 years and some last 12 years or more. Why replace it before you need to? The Talking Water Tank Minder will allow you to get full use out of your tank without replacing it before it is time, but still protecting your home.

    Here are some facts about hot water tanks. A hot water tank that develops a 1/8-inch hole with a city water pressure of 60 psi can flood your house with 159 gallons of water every hour, or 3,806 gallons of water every 24 hours. These tanks break when you are asleep, when you are on vacation, or when you are at work or away from your home, in other words, five minutes after you lock your front door for the day! It should also be noted that even a brand-new hot water tank can fail years before it’s time. Your new hot water tank that is guaranteed for 9 years sometimes only lasts three years. I know this very well because my tank failed just after three years.

    If you would like to know more about this wonderful system or you know someone that needs this system, please contact me at [EMAIL][email protected][/email] or contact my company at 201-215-4300.

    Sincerely,
    Bob Y.
     
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  9. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    I don't want my water heater talking to me. I have enough trouble with kitchen appliances.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. snubnose

    snubnose

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    Bob Y. , sincere best wishes for business success and your device should be required in all installations of water heaters and washing machines where the appliance is located above the basement level or in basements with 'finished' areas-if it were up to me this would be part of the mechanical code if it is not already.

    It has been my experience that true equipment catastrophic failures while possible are not probable and when a sudden failure does occur those I have seen have always been attributable to design/installation and maint. failures, without exception.

    By far the most common reason for vessel failure is not removing the rods for inspection and this is nearly always due to the fact that the installer did not remove the rods prior to installation to properly seal/lube the threads which would allow for subsequent people to be ABLE to take the rods out without the use of a 800 ft/lb electric impact wrench. The second most common cause (for me) has been the install being done with extremely high water pressure or the installer creating a hard hydraulic system through the use of check valves and failing to use potable water expansion tanks or not using multiple expansion tanks or both of these issues being present.

    Contributing factors: *not flushing the appliance-not descaling the appliance which in an incredible number of instances was CAUSED by the failure of the installer to put in a proper full port ball valve and full sized nip which would have facilitated the required procedures*supply temp excessive/dangerous*absolutely horrible water quality, especially with directs and perhaps my favorite, faux failures or those tanks which 'appear' to be leaking due to rusty bottoms when placed directly on the floor or due to defective mechanical connects under the tin.

    Sudden failure can occur with the tanks and with solenoid valves (sorry couldn't resist) but thankfully they are so few as to be statistically a non issue.
     
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  11. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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    Good. Someone with knowledge.

    #1 Can I use Teflon on the Sacrificial Anode Threads ? Or MUST there be good electrical contact. In which case, Copper Anti-Seize, Aluminum Anti-Seize, or Di-Electric grease ? Currently I'm using Teflon.

    #2 Danger in setting the Heat to Maximum output ? I believe the Dishwasher especially benefits from High Temperatures. So I have it set on Max.
     
  12. xjma99

    xjma99 NES Member

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    #1 is interesting, use an ohm meter to determine.....Teflon seals, but there should be some metal direct thread to thread contact especially with NTP threads.
    #2 I would insulate got water pipes as best they can be and run your electric hot water tank on the high side of the recommended setting but not max temp. You know there are two therms, right? Running it cranked will only heat water for no good reason ie waste electricity.

    Also, I would recommend against an electric on demand heater for whole house use. The ones for just a sink that run on 120 seem OK for what they are. The whole house ones I have seen BLOW!! And use an assload of power to not even work as advertised. Do whatever you want though, but it sucks to upgrade your whole service for a large load just to find out the expensive product you paid for and had your service upgraded for doesn’t do what you need it to do.

    My propane rinnai works flawlessly.
     
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  13. snubnose

    snubnose

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    AO Smith and Bock don't care if you use tape or a food grade/potable water approved dope or both for that matter (common sense on the thickness)-I have use one, the other and both; a couple of wraps of tape, full density, and whatever rectorseal we have that lists potable water.

    Even the -Rich- uses tape


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IUNIUZz4Os
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  14. snubnose

    snubnose

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    Neglected to mention that if you opt for tape only it should be full density, otherwise you would be wise to use a few wraps of tape and a dope.
     
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  15. fshalor

    fshalor NES Member

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    I believe in a boiler (propane or oil) for hot water on demand (less than 80 gal required) and electric if a large tank needs to be held as a reserve.

    I think a hybrid system would be perfect. ISE on the sinks plus boiler for dishwasher , kitchen sink tub and washing machine smells like the most efficient.

    If I only had 40 amps, I would probably just move though. 40 amps is a fire waiting to happen if someone tries vacuminng, while running a carpet cleaner and a humidifier.

    With only 40a, everything heating water should be using a dino fuel.
     
  16. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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    #1 You are likely correct - some Electric continuity is desirable. But Aluminum or Copper Anti-seize, or even Dielectric grease may not be a healthy choice. And bare metal is a recipe for corrosion and an anode that can never be removed. So the jury is still out.

    #2 My Heater is Gas - I should have specified that. I may set the heat back a little.
     
  17. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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    #1 Rich, buy a Breaker Bar from Harbor Freight ! They're pretty cheap, dude.

    #2 The Plastic-lined Galvanized Steel Nipples he is using rotted real bad for me. I replaced them with solid brass.

    #3 That linked anode - how good can the electrical continuity be between those crummy little links ? Maybe electrical continuity is not important at all ?

    #4 My computer lacks audio right now. What is he saying about the layer of white crud on the anode - cause I've got that.
     
  18. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    Even with thread sealant in there, metal still contacts metal, I wouldn't worry about the sealant.
     
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  19. snubnose

    snubnose

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    and even if a novice used way way too much tape he/she would not be able to start the thread into the fitting or tapping, they would sort of be like a go/no gauge- or if able to catch a thread or two the excess tape would have to be sheared off by as what ever was being tightened into, a tape metering device ?.....

    Mike, you might have removed the dielectric nipples-google the term and see pics, if so you really should replace them or use dielectric unions.
     
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  20. snubnose

    snubnose

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  21. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    Pro tip, that's DIELECTRIC nipples, not ELECTRIC nipples. Don't google the later after calling Mrs Pi, er, Mrs Snubnose over to see the on demand hot water heater links.
     
  22. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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    The Dielectric Nipples rotted in place and were nearly impossible to remove after just a couple of years.

    I did the install myself and I did use Teflon on them. Dielectric Nipples suck.

    After a couple of years only they were ready to perforate !

    The Brass Nipples I used to replace them have not corroded at all.

    I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.
     
  23. zboys

    zboys NES Member

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    Nipples on hot water heaters leak and rot out when they and fittings are not sealed 100% at installation time. Human error is the cause
     
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  24. snubnose

    snubnose

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  25. PatMcD

    PatMcD NES Member

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    Just had to replace my well pump this morning. It was 23 years old, so it doesn't owe me anything. He didn't have time today, but he's going to replace the pressure tank next week.
    Pressure tanks lose their air charge after a few years, so it may just need to be brought back up if you have low pressure. Need to drain the tank, take a pressure reading. Should be at 28-ish empty, if you have a 30-50 switch.
     
  26. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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    Well, the same Human used the same Heavy Teflon Tape and the same Hoses and the same Tank and the same Skills and the same Tools.

    And the Dielectric Nipples rotted while the Solid Brass Nipples did not.

    That's all I know.
     
  27. snubnose

    snubnose

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  28. snubnose

    snubnose

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    and, just why do plumbers use channel locks for fittings?
     
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  29. snubnose

    snubnose

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    an adjustable metric wrench would not leave the Union Label, perhaps this is the reason......
     
  30. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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