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Flare Launchers Legal in MA?

You can go buy flare guns at most boat stores, walmart, ect...just happens that, that one looks like an M203, but its still just a flare gun...

If you want a grenade launcher buy a grenade launcher, if you want a flare gun buy a flare gun....
 
If you want a grenade launcher buy a grenade launcher, if you want a flare gun buy a flare gun....

wow you totally missed the point. first of all grenade launcher is a totally different animal than a flare launcher.

as far as legality i cant help. ill be staying tuned though
 
You can go buy flare guns at most boat stores, walmart, ect...just happens that, that one looks like an M203, but its still just a flare gun...

If you want a grenade launcher buy a grenade launcher, if you want a flare gun buy a flare gun....

I dont want a grenade launcher.

I wouldnt mind something that could let off a smoke or gas round. You know; just in case...
 
wow you totally missed the point. first of all grenade launcher is a totally different animal than a flare launcher.

Don't see how I missed the point, he linked to this ad of a fake grenade launcher, so I recommended if he wants a grenade launcher he should buy a grenade launcher....
Havoc%20AR_LRG.jpg


Have you always wanted a "grenade launcher" to mount to your AR but don't want to speed the $1200 for a M203 40mm plus the $200 tax stamp? Then we have just what you need.

These are 37mm flare launchers by Spikes Tactical, and allow you to legally shoot any 37mm, 26.5mm and 12ga flare, smoke, or gas with the look and feel of a M203 grenade launcher.

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=77_80&products_id=132

Available with either 12" or 9" barrels.

Retail is $299, our price to NES members is $250 shipped to your door.

PM, email or call. [email protected] 866-580-5252



***Legal Note: A 37mm launcher is exempt from NFA laws and tax stamp as long as it is used to launch flares, smoke, or gas. The launching of ANY anti-personnel munitions makes it a Destructive Device and subject to NFA laws and tax stamp. So make sure you only use the 37mm to 12ga adapters to launch 12ga flares.

I dont want a grenade launcher.

I wouldnt mind something that could let off a smoke or gas round. You know; just in case...
Since you don't want a grenade launcher, I would buy a $20 surplus 26mm flare gun, for all your smoke/flare needs, rather than $250 on that...
 
They make some interesting 37mm loads, though.
Most aren't legal unless the you register your "flare gun" as a destructive device, so like I said if you want a flare gun to shoot signaling devices (ie. flares or smoke) buy a flare gun, if you want a grenade launcher buy a grenade launcher.
 
Most aren't legal unless the you register your "flare gun" as a destructive device, so like I said if you want a flare gun to shoot signaling devices (ie. flares or smoke) buy a flare gun, if you want a grenade launcher buy a grenade launcher.

why does the flare gun need to be a destructive device? because it "looks" like a grenade launcher?

the point is, he wants this flare gun to get the "LOOK" of a grenade launcher on his rifle. and massachusetts isnt too friendly on actual grenade launchers. so this is the next best option. so yea you missed the point.
 
why does the flare gun need to be a destructive device? because it "looks" like a grenade launcher?

the point is, he wants this flare gun to get the "LOOK" of a grenade launcher on his rifle. and massachusetts isnt too friendly on actual grenade launchers. so this is the next best option. so yea you missed the point.

'Cause clearly you don't understand the requirements of Federal law regarding large-bore (over .5 of a inch) "weapons"...

If you possess a 37mm flare gun, and ANY anti-personnel rounds for said flare gun, it's now a Destructive Device, and is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 (as amended, in 1968).

All those "interesting" rounds referred to in the other posts, in general, are considered anti-personnel. If someone is gonna goto the effort of registering a 37mm flare gun as a DD, they might as well get the real thing.

ETA: Massachusetts has no problems with large-bore Destructive Devices. If you go through the normal NFA ownership hoops, a MA resident can own all the grenade launchers they can afford.

--EasyD
 
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'Cause clearly you don't understand the requirements of Federal law regarding large-bore (over .5 of a inch) "weapons"...

If you possess a 37mm flare gun, and ANY anti-personnel rounds for said flare gun, it's now a Destructive Device, and is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 (as amended, in 1968).

All those "interesting" rounds referred to in the other posts, in general, are considered anti-personnel. If someone is gonna goto the effort of registering a 37mm flare gun as a DD, they might as well get the real thing.

ETA: Massachusetts has no problems with large-bore Destructive Devices. If you go through the normal NFA ownership hoops, a MA resident can own all the grenade launchers they can afford.

--EasyD

thank you for explaining this, i understand now. the other guy just didnt state WHY you may as well get a real grenade launcher. thanks for the intelligent and educational input.
 
thank you for explaining this, i understand now. the other guy just didnt state WHY you may as well get a real grenade launcher. thanks for the intelligent and educational input.

Umm actually I did, rather than jumping on people for "missing the point" you should let reading comprehension be your friend...[wink]

They make some interesting 37mm loads, though.
Most aren't legal unless the you register your "flare gun" as a destructive device, so like I said if you want a flare gun to shoot signaling devices (ie. flares or smoke) buy a flare gun, if you want a grenade launcher buy a grenade launcher.

And in fact if you took the time to read the ad in question, the seller explained it...
...

***Legal Note: A 37mm launcher is exempt from NFA laws and tax stamp as long as it is used to launch flares, smoke, or gas. The launching of ANY anti-personnel munitions makes it a Destructive Device and subject to NFA laws and tax stamp. So make sure you only use the 37mm to 12ga adapters to launch 12ga flares.

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against flare guns, but that are what they are...flare guns...I stand by what I said if you want a grenade launcher buy one...3rd from the top,thats my M79...
s2qpef.jpg
 
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Flare launchers are neat. I had one under my old Colt National Match - it was awesome. That however was in the heyday of 37mm ammo. There was a place called "FunAmmo.com that had some wild rounds for the 37mm. The "bird buster" was so close to a flash-bang that it could not be believed. When it went off, you could feel it...The smoke rounds poured out smoke and the flares would light up a field. I'm 99% sure bird busters are nowhere to be found and the smoke/flare rounds are stupidly expensive...
 
I'm trying to find clarification and can't find it in any posts.

Is the actual 37mm flare launcher legal to attach to an ar-15 (preban)?

If I wanted it just for looks...
 
And yet the question has (to my understanding) not yet been answered in regards to the legality of actually FIRING the flares out of the launcher.

Things I think we know:

1. The launcher is not INHERENTLY an NFA device given that it's not a 40mm/M203 style unit.

2. The launcher "becomes" an NFA device if it fires an anti-personell round.

3. The launcher can purchased "over the counter" without registration or tax stamp.

Things I don't know:

1. Does the launcher have to be mounted to a preban firearm? I ask this simply because the original AWB components were writen based in large part due to the appearance of the evil features (flash hider, collapsible stock, GL etc). Does the addition of the launcher constitute adding a GL-like device to a theoretically post-ban rifle?

Now before someone jumps all over me with the "IT'S NOT A GL, IT'S A FLARE LAUNCHER" malarky, I ask this in all seriousness simply based on the cosmetic components of the AWB in Mass. The flip side of this concept is that it could be completely "kosher" in the same way that a flash hider is a no-no but a muzzle break is just fine under the same AWB rules.

Now we all know that the AWB is utter nonsense from the get go, but this piece does bear examination...

2. Does having the launcher and the 12 gauge flare adapter, along with existing 12 gauge shells prove intent? Most of us own some kind of 12 gauge shotgun, and therefore own ammo for it. Does the launcher plus adaptor = underslung shotgun, or is their some other component needed to facilitate this (and therefore clarify my question)?

3. Other than "house" rules, are there any state laws regarding the posession of flares and the discharge of such? Let's say I've got the permission of a local land owner to touch one of these non-lethal smoke-only flares off and all other legal requirements have been met I.E. licensed individual/registered firearm, range safety conditions, clear line of fire etc...

These are the questions I have yet to find clear answers to.

Please clarify/correct as you see fit.
 
1. Does the launcher have to be mounted to a preban firearm? ... The flip side of this concept is that it could be completely "kosher" in the same way that a flash hider is a no-no but a muzzle break is just fine under the same AWB rules..
I would figure it is like you say with comparison to a muzzle break, so long as it is just a flare launcher, mount as you wish.
2. Does having the launcher and the 12 gauge flare adapter, along with existing 12 gauge shells prove intent?
Now you get into "constructive possession" teritory, if you have all those things and don't have 12 gauge flares and a 12 gauge shotgun with you, you do probably have some explaining to do.
3. Other than "house" rules, are there any state laws regarding the posession of flares and the discharge of such?....
I don't know, never looked it up, but will tell a quick story. Years past we used to begin/end the Hanson Shoot (www.hansonshoot.com) with smoke signaling "flares" from a 26mm launcher. Fella mentioned to us once that we shouldn't be doing that due to some Coast Guard regulation...being 20+/- miles inland I called "BS" and wasn't too worried about the coasties showing up, but who knows there could be some such reg... I pulled this out of sequence...
Does the launcher plus adaptor = underslung shotgun, or is their some other component needed to facilitate this (and therefore clarify my question)?
Yes all you need to do is put the 12guage adapter in the "chamber" and insert a 12 gauge round (flare to be legal, "anti-personel" to be not legal), there is no other components needed.
 
SB,

Although your experience in the NFA realm dwarfs mine, unfortunately I'm no closer to an answer if this thing is really "ok" to own (read: use) in Mass.

On a more opportune note, could the launcher be declared for use with anti-personell munitions, thussly classified as a DD, registered as such with the appropriate tax stamp and paperwork, and therefore making a "half-price" grenade launcher/underslung shotgun?

I only say this given that it would most likely be an AOW (5$ tax stamp), and the launcher is about 300.00. As I recall M203s are way more than that.

Just a thought, and once again I propose this hypothetically and through all legal means.
 
SB, On a more opportune note, could the launcher be declared for use with anti-personell munitions, thussly classified as a DD, registered as such with the appropriate tax stamp and paperwork, and therefore making a "half-price" grenade launcher/underslung shotgun? I only say this given that it would most likely be an AOW (5$ tax stamp), and the launcher is about 300.00. As I recall M203s are way more than that. Just a thought, and once again I propose this hypothetically and through all legal means.
I don't think you could go the AOW route, becasue the bore is over .50, so it is DD, though I guess maybe you could get real inventive and somehow permanently "in-tach" (like that new word [wink] ) the shotgun adapter, even not sure it may be an SBR??? But if you are going to bother paying the $200 to make any NFA device, I'd just do it as a D.D.

One final word of caution (real caution not legal caution). the cheapest "real" M203's are just over $1000, yet if you hunt you can probably find an old cobray .37mm flare launcher for about 10% of the cost of the real thing...the flare guns only need to withstand very minimal pressures, you get what you pay for. So that 1/2 price launcher you just registered may not last all that long when you start putting any thing with a kick through it. Do a search on the net and you'll come up with some "nice" pics of blown up flare guns...
 
Wow, reading this thread has taught me that grenade launchers are in fact a future possibility for my collection. AWESOME. Thanks guys!

Now that that assumption of mine has been shot down, I gotta ask: any chance I could ever buy an RPG-7? [smile]
 
According to the ATF...

From James O. Bardwell's ([email protected]) FAQ On National Firearms Act Weapons

"Smooth bore 37mm projectile launcher - not a DD. Not even a title 1 firearm. This item falls under the "not a weapon" (signaling device) exception, I believe. Generally a large bore device for which no anti-personnel ammo has ever been made will NOT be a DD. This used to be true of the 37mm guns. However, according to ATF, some folks have started making anti-personnel rounds for these guns, and ATF has ruled that possession of a 37mm launcher and a bean bag or rubber shot or similar round is possession of a DD, and at that point the launcher needs to be registered. Put another way, before you make or buy anti-personnel rounds for your 37mm launcher, register it as a DD. The rounds themselves, not being explosive, incendiary or poison gas, are not regulated in themselves either. It is just the two together. See ATF Ruling 95-3."

Section 5845(f), Title 26, U.S.C., classifies certain weapons as "destructive devices" which are subject to the registration and tax provisions of the NFA. Section 5845(f)(2) provides as follows:

(f) Destructive device.--The term "destructive device" means * * *

(2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; ..."

A "sporting purposes" test which is almost identical to that in section 5845(f)(2) appears in 18 U.S.C. � 925(d)(3). This provision of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) provides that the Secretary shall authorize a firearm to be imported into the United States if the firearm is "generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes." With the exception of the readily adaptable' language, this provision is identical to the sporting shotgun exception to the destructive devices definition. The definition of "destructive device" in the GCA (18 U.S.C. � 921(a)(4)) is identical to that in the NFA.

Classification of Gas/Flare Guns with Anti-Personnel Ammunition as Destructive Devices
Recently ATF issued ATF Ruling 95-3, holding that 37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with "anti-personnel" ammunition, consisting of cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags are destructive devices as degined in the Gun Control Act and the National Firearms Act and require registration to be lawfully possessed.

Devices designed for expelling tear gas or pyrotechnic signals have been held to be exempt from the destructive device definition. However, when a gas/flare gun is possessed with "anti-personnel" ammunition, it is then capable of use as a weapon. Thus, it becomes a firearm and is no longer exempt from the destructive device definition.

Any person who will possess a gas/flare gun in combination with "anti-personnel" ammunition must register the making of a destructive device prior to the acquistion of both the gun and the "anti-personnel" ammunition. The gas/flare gun must be indentified must be identified with the required markings, including serial number. Any person engaged in the business of buying or selling the combination of the gas/flare gun and "anti-personnel" ammunition must have the appropriate Federal firearms license and/or have paid the appropriate special (occupational) tax.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, the entire text of the ruling is available in the ATF Quarterly Bulletin, Volume 3, 1995, and is reproduced below, or you may contact the National Firearms Act Branch at (202) 927-8330.

[ATF Ruling 95-3]

18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4); DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE 26 U.S.C.
section 5845(f)(2); DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE (Firearm having a bore of
more than one-half inch in diameter)

37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with cartridges containing
wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags are classified
as destructive devices for purposes of the Gun Control Act, 18
U.S.C. Chapter 44, and the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. Chapter
53.

ATF Ruling 95-3

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has examined
various 37/38 mm gas/flare guns in combination with certain types
of ammunition to determine whether these are destructive devices as
defined in the Gun Control Act (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, and the
National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.

Section 5845(f), Title 26, United States Code, classifies
certain weapons as "destructive devices" which are subject to the
registration and tax provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA).
Section 5845(f)(2) provides as follows:

(f) Destructive device. --The term "destructive device" means
* * * (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or
which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action
of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which
have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a
shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds
is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting
purposes . . .'

Section 5845(f)(3) excludes from the term "destructive device"
any device which is neither designed or redesigned for use as a
weapon and any device, although originally designed for use as a
weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic,
line throwing, safety, or similar device.

The definition of "destructive device" in the GCA (18 U.S.C.
section 921(a)(4)) is identical to that in the NFA.

ATF has previously held that devices designed for expelling
tear gas or pyrotechnic signals are not weapons and are exempt from
the destructive device definition. However, ammunition designed to
be used against individuals is available for these 37/38 mm
devices. This "anti-personnel" ammunition consists of cartridges
containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, and bean bags.

When a gas/flare gun is possessed with "anti-personnel" type
ammunition, it clearly becomes an instrument of offensive or
defensive combat and is capable of use as a weapon. Since these
gas/flare guns have a bore diameter of greater than one-half inch,
fire a projectile by the means of an explosive, and, when possessed
with "anti-personnel" ammunition, are capable of use as weapons,
the combination of the gas/flare gun and "anti-personnel"
ammunition is a destructive device as defined in the GCA and NFA.
As a result, registration as a destructive device is required. Any
person possessing a gas/flare gun with which "anti-personnel"
ammunition will be used must register the making of a destructive
device prior to the acquisition of any "anti-personnel" ammunition.
In addition, the gas/flare guns are classified as firearms as
defined by the GCA when possessed with "anti-personnel" type
ammunition.

Each gas/flare gun possessed with anti-personnel ammunition
will be required to be identified as required by law and
regulations (27 C.F.R. section 178.92 and 179.102), including a
serial number. Any person manufacturing the gas/flare gun and the
"anti-personnel" ammunition must, if selling them in combination,
have the appropriate Federal firearms license as a manufacturer of
destructive devices and must have paid the special (occupational)
tax as a manufacturer of National Firearms Act firearms. Any person
importing the gas/flare gun and the "anti-personnel" ammunition
must, if importing them in combination, have the appropriate
Federal firearms license as an importer of destructive devices and
must have paid the special (occupational) tax as an importer of
National Firearms Act firearms.

Further, the "anti-personnel" ammunition to be used in the
gas/flare launchers is ammunition for destructive devices for
purposes of the GCA. Any person manufacturing the "anti-personnel"
ammunition must have the appropriate Federal firearms license as a
manufacturer of ammunition for destructive devices. Any person
importing the "anti-personnel" ammunition must have the appropriate
Federal firearms license as an importer of ammunition for
destructive devices.

HELD: 37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with "anti-personnel"
ammunition, consisting of cartridges containing wood pellets,
rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags, are destructive devices as
that term is used in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4) and 26 U.S.C.
section 5845(f)(2).

http://web.archive.org/web/20080129090717/37mm.com/legal/federal1.asp

(note: the above information was lifted from the Bardwell website http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist. While Bardwell can be very informative, it's not always up to date and there's no telling if or how many of the ATF determinations/rulings posted there have since been rescinded or are out of date).

37mm.com is a great source of information for 37mm flare launchers... however, it seems to be down at the moment, but it can still be accessed via the Internet Archive
 
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