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First Squib Load

You need to rethink your theory. Because the boolit gets hung up in the barrel that simply says enough pressure was built up to enter rifling just in front of the chamber and stop there. This was with no powder and using WLP. Factory springs in the gun.

It was the first 100 rounds I loaded and the pistol rotor was hanging up. A little emery cloth fixed that problem and I also look into cases as well as using the rcbs lockout die.

-Stalking via S3.-
 
I've spent a fair amount of time trying to find minimal loads for steel shooting for myself and my wife. By gradually reducing powder, i've always reached a point where the gun would not cycle long before it would leave a bullet in the barrel.

I've also intentionally set off primer only rounds so my wife could feel what it felt like and it didn't get anywhere near cycling either a glock or a 1911. So I don't get it. A primer only, will not cycle an action.
 
I've spent a fair amount of time trying to find minimal loads for steel shooting for myself and my wife. By gradually reducing powder, i've always reached a point where the gun would not cycle long before it would leave a bullet in the barrel.

I've also intentionally set off primer only rounds so my wife could feel what it felt like and it didn't get anywhere near cycling either a glock or a 1911. So I don't get it. A primer only, will not cycle an action.

We shall agree to disagree.
:)

-Stalking via S3.-
 
I'm a big fan of keeping it civil thanks.

Im also a big fan of experimentation. To that end I made 8 9mm squib rounds today with no powder and 4 with 1 gr of Clays powder. I'm going to the range either tonight or tomorrow and will try in a KAHR P9, s&w 547 revolver, Glock 34, and a Dan Wesson Pointman 9 1911.

Hopefully I won't forget my brass rod. Ha.
 
Experiment Completed.

As some of you have read my opinion differs from others on this thread about what a squib is and how a squib is behaved.

I said earlier that a round that will not leave the barrel is never powerful enough to cycle the action and that some rounds that are powerful enough to leave the barrel will still not cycle the action.

Others have said that squib loads that were insufficiently powerful to exit the barrel often still cycle the action. Others have also said that powderless loads will cycle the action with enough authority to eject the empty and chamber a new round with just the power of the primer.

My goal was to see who was right. I thought I was right. But nothing beats testing. Let the chips fall where they may.

So today I want out to test my theories using 3 guns and 2 loads. All 9mm.
Earlier I mentioned I'd use my 9mm S&W 547 revolver, but I passed on that since it would be difficult to clear a stuck bullet from the barrel.

So here are the guns in question:

1) Kahr P9
2) Glock 17
3) Dan Wesson PM9 1911

The ammo all used a 147 GR moly coated bullet fro precisionbullets.com and mixed brass that was cleaned, polished and loaded on a Dillon 650. The 2 kinds of squibs were:

1) Case, primer, bullet and no powder
2) Case, primer, bullet and 1.0 gr of Clays. For point of reference a light 38 spcl load uses about 3 gr of Clays.

Results:

In all cases, all of the firearms behaved in exactly the same way, so I'm not going to break it down by firearm.

1) Squib with no powder - There was a very faint pop. The slide did not move. The gun did not recoil, not even a little. The bullet was found inside the barrel within the first inch of the barrel. The brass did not eject. A new round did not chamber.

2) Squib with 1.0 gr of Clays - There was a normal handgun sound, although it was muted. The slide moved. The gun recoiled a bit. The bullet left the barrel in all cases. The brass failed to eject in all cases. There were no double feeds as the slide did not go back enough to pick up a new round from the magazine.

Conclusion:
1) Under my test conditions a squib that consists of a primer only will NOT cycle the action. This is so positively proven with my guns and my ammo that I'd be comfortable making the blanket statement that in no gun is the primer to going to cycle the action, especially if the bullet remains in the barrel.

2) In my guns using my ammo, a squib with a reduced powder charge did not cycle the action but did send the bullet downrange. Remember, the danger is if the bullet is still in the bbl and the gun cycles. With my guns, this could not be induced to happen.

See for yourself. Please excuse the cinematography. Pay particular attention to the primer only loads. Not even close. Anyone who thinks that a primer cycled their firearm is simply mistaken. For what its worth. I loaded up more than originally planned. Each gun got 4 squibs with 1 gr of Clays for a total of 16 rounds. All exited the firearm but failed to cycle it. Each gun got only 2 of the squibs with no powder because I got tired of pounding the bullets out. Especially with the 1911. All of the primer only squibs demonstrated no recoil, no movement of the slide and all left the bullet about an inch in to the barrel.

Don

[video=youtube_share;yYAmYgG40Us]http://youtu.be/yYAmYgG40Us[/video]
 
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A couple of corrections to my narration. The bullet didn't go into the barrel 1" with the primer only loads. It went more like 1/4" to 1/2".

Which leads me to something I failed to do. I should have seen if a round would even chamber and the slide go into battery with the bullet stuck. I'm guessing there is a decent chance that that wouldn't even happen, although I'm back to speculation again. I don't have any more primer only loads, because of their dangerousness, I disassembled the extras as soon as I got home.
 
I suspect it was one of his reloads.. if not I want to know manufacturer please!

I have had more then one so far - with no bad results to speak of. Glad to hear you caught it as well.

Shit, I had a .223 squib at the 2011 NES
Pumpkin shoot out of my RRA AR. It was recently manufactured factory Federal American Eagle 55 gr. bulk ammo. Notably, the Tula steel case we were shooting all day was much dirtier but never squibbed.
 
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Well then its not a squib.

My point is that if a round is powerful enough to cycle the gun its more than powerful enough to get the bullet outof the barrel.

When I had my brother had the squib I noted above, the action didn't cycle. Nonetheless, he was smart enough (at 19) to say "Shit something ain't right here."
 
I'm not in any way saying you should just keep shooting. This experiment came from my earlier point that if a round leaves a bullet in the barrel, its not nearly strong enough to cycle the action. So at least you have that forced pause, where you have to rack the slide to eject the round.

In contrast, a revolver allows you to launch a bullet into the back of a bullet by just pulling the trigger again, provided the bullet isn't spanning the cylinder gap and preventing the cylinder from turning.
 
What do people use to clear a squib? That was the most frustrating part of the squib I had. I bought one of these
SQUIB ROD | Brownells
and one of these
Truper / Collins Axe, 3 LB, Drilling Hammer, 10" Oval Eye Hickory Handle on eBay!
for pistol. The rod says it is threaded for a cleaning rod, would a brass cleaning rod clear a 223 round?

I have foot long section of an old brass cleaning rod. I cut the ends off of it so both ends are full diameter and solid. Then you remove the bbl from the gun, set it on its breach end and hammer it back out.

It only takes a minute. The key is that everything touching the barrel needs to be softer than the steel of the barrel. I also use a conical plastic centering guide if I'm putting the brass rod in from the muzzle end.

I also make sure the breach end of the barrel is on a clean piece of wood. And then I hammer away with a brass hammer, which I use in case I miss the rod.
If it takes you more than a minute or two to clear a pistol barrel once you have it out of the gun, then you are doing something wrong.
 
How did the primer look?

I didn't give it any super creful inspection, but IIRC it didn't look much out of the ordinary.

I don't think the primer blew out the back of the case if that's the question. The round only made it about 3" down the barrel.
 
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