First Female Graduates Marine Corps Infantry School

[cockpitbob]

When I went to ANOC(Advanced Commissioned Officer Course) we had a few Drill Sergeants who told us the horror stories of mixed basic training. The recruits were banging each other in every place they could, latrines, showers, wall lockers, stairwells, etc. Look at the Navy, see how many females get knocked up on long cruises.

Interesting stories, but where's the horror?

 

[rwl1955]

Interesting stories, but where's the horror?

Females in a deployed Infantry platoon could be a serious problem. Bad enough having 20 or some knucklehead male privates, sprinkle in a few females and watch the drama.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

Personally, I never quite understood the female desire to fill a body-bag, themselves or with someone else. I understand that if you put-up a barrier, someone will come-along and make it their life's mission to climb-over it and get to the other side. Yay. The Marine Infantry sole-purpose is to kill people - save all that "foreign-aid provider/peacekeeper" crap, that's what the UN Sissies and Peace Corps is for, totally different people and mindset. We send-in the Marines to shoot and kill people, destroy things, and demolish everything in their path. There is zero room for femininity in that task....but there it is.

 

[Artifact]

Personally, I never quite understood the female desire to fill a body-bag, themselves or with someone else. I understand that if you put-up a barrier, someone will come-along and make it their life's mission to climb-over it and get to the other side. Yay. The Marine Infantry sole-purpose is to kill people - save all that "foreign-aid provider/peacekeeper" crap, that's what the UN Sissies and Peace Corps is for, totally different people and mindset. We send-in the Marines to shoot and kill people, destroy things, and demolish everything in their path. There is zero room for femininity in that task....but there it is.

Right, because during human history females never fought or picked up a weapon because were too busy making sandwiches.




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[Admin]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/apr/24/usa.marktran

 

[mibro]

Right, because during human history females never fought or picked up a weapon because were too busy making sandwiches.

Not really the point. Only perhaps 5% of men are enthusiastic killers in wartime. The other 95% are reluctant to take human lives and suffer some mental consequences if they do.

Why are women so anxious to join this fraternity?

The answer is that outside of a few freaks of nature they aren't. But some women do want to invade one of the few remaining male spaces just to stick it - again - to da man.

These women are egged on by the spiteful post-menopausal cat ladies in DC who have no idea what they're breaking and why they really shouldn't.

Maybe young men are different now due to the intense brainwashing they all receive, but there's no way I would have wanted to serve alongside women no matter how GI Janey they were. Just. Not. Interested.

 

[FalArAk]

My only problem with women in Infantry units is when they get captured and put into a propaganda film,Americans will not be able to handle a woman getting tortured and beheaded.

 

[Picton]

Not really the point. Only perhaps 5% of men are enthusiastic killers in wartime. The other 95% are reluctant to take human lives and suffer some mental consequences if they do.

...

Maybe young men are different now due to the intense brainwashing they all receive, but there's no way I would have wanted to serve alongside women no matter how GI Janey they were. Just. Not. Interested.

This is a very important point. Enthusiastic killers are very rare, even among groups like the SS Einsatzgruppen. But if it's 5% of males, I'm not sure it wouldn't also be 5% of females; until now, we haven't had a way of finding out in a military context. Other countries have, but not ours. maybe now we'll learn something new.

This is why SLA Marshall changed infantry training after WWII. He found out the vast majority of riflemen hadn't fired at the enemy. Now, they do.

 

[mibro]

My only problem with women in Infantry units is when they get captured and put into a propaganda film,Americans will not be able to handle a woman getting tortured and beheaded.

Call me a contrarian. I won't watch the video but I'll be more than OK with that kind of reality check if it ever happens.

 

[mibro]

This is a very important point. Enthusiastic killers are very rare, even among groups like the SS Einsatzgruppen. But if it's 5% of males, I'm not sure it wouldn't also be 5% of females; until now, we haven't had a way of finding out in a military context. Other countries have, but not ours. maybe now we'll learn something new.

Women are genetically programmed to protect their own lives to a greater extent than men. For men there is a big upside to successful risk-taking. For women, the exact opposite is true, physical risks are to be avoided.

I'm utterly convinced that when it's time to fire and maneuver on a prepared defensive position female infantry will all discover they have an unclearable weapon malfunction, they twisted their ankle, their face camo doesn't look quite right or whatever.

Infantry soldiering requires you to accept your own expendability.

Read this:

Battle of Mount Longdon

I wasn't there but a number of friends/acquaintances were. Matt Selfridge was so determined to get into the Paras he took P Company three times. If I'd failed the first time I would not have gone back for another try. Once was more than enough.

There is absolutely no point to turning the Marine Corps upside down for a handful of crazy women. Let them get their fun base-jumping or whatever.

 

[Picton]

Women are genetically programmed to protect their own lives to a greater extent than men. For men there is a big upside to successful risk-taking. For women, the exact opposite is true, physical risks are to be avoided.

I'm utterly convinced that when it's time to fire and maneuver on a prepared defensive position female infantry will all discover they have an unclearable weapon malfunction, they twisted their ankle, their face camo doesn't look quite right or whatever.

Infantry soldiering requires you to accept your own expendability.

Read this:

Battle of Mount Longdon

Do some research. I'd suggest starting with Leigh Ann Hester, who had absolutely no issues firing and maneuvering on a prepared position in March 2005.

I dont believe her weapon malfunctioned, either.

 

[mibro]

Do some research. I'd suggest starting with Leigh Ann Hester, who had absolutely no issues firing and maneuvering on a prepared position in March 2005.

I dont believe her weapon malfunctioned, either.

First, I know I'm a dinosaur and this debate has already been decided. I lost, you won.

There will always be the odd exception and I have no wish to denigrate Sgt. Hester. That was a mechanized defensive action however and there is a difference between that and moving forward on foot on a prepared defensive position.

I will tell you though that before I accept any story like that 100% at face value I'd want to talk to someone who was actually there. Remember Private Jessica Lynch who fired at the enemy until she ran out of ammo? Except she didn't.

I'm not saying there aren't women who will keep their head while being shot at. I'm saying it's a shame to turn the Marine Corps upside down to accommodate a handful of them.

Google Captain Kelly Hasselman who commanded an all-women F.E.T. team. What the military isn't telling the patriotic women who sign up for the combat arms is there will be consequences, huge consequences for some of them.

Kelly Hasselman was a super-achiever, just the kind of young officer the Army loves to point to as an ideal. An honor graduate (2007) of the Citadel, she excelled at every challenge she took on. All except one.

The much-ballyhooed F.E.T. 55-woman detachment she commanded soon imploded, no fault of it's earnest leader.

"A number of women got pregnant and were sent back to the States," an officer in the know told MCC. "Others were producing pornography for American GI's, and some of the raunchy photos included females in lesbian poses."

 

[FalArAk]

While doing research,get some stats on women in the service and pregnancy rates before deployment. lol

 

[Picton]

There will always be the odd exception and I have no wish to denigrate Sgt. Hester. That was a mechanized defensive action however and there is a difference between that and moving forward on foot on a prepared defensive position.

I will tell you though that before I accept any story like that 100% at face value I'd want to talk to someone who was actually there. Remember Private Jessica Lynch who fired at the enemy until she ran out of ammo? Except she didn't.

I'm not saying there aren't women who will keep their head while being shot at. I'm saying it's a shame to turn the Marine Corps upside down to accommodate a handful of them.

Google Captain Kelly Hasselman who commanded an all-women F.E.T. team. What the military isn't telling the patriotic women who sign up for the combat arms is there will be consequences, huge consequences for some of them.

Kelly Hasselman was a super-achiever, just the kind of young officer the Army loves to point to as an ideal. An honor graduate (2007) of the Citadel, she excelled at every challenge she took on. All except one.

The much-ballyhooed F.E.T. 55-woman detachment she commanded soon imploded, no fault of it's earnest leader.

"A number of women got pregnant and were sent back to the States," an officer in the know told MCC. "Others were producing pornography for American GI's, and some of the raunchy photos included females in lesbian poses."

Fine, but none of those women had volunteered to be an infantry Marine. Which, again, is a cut above. Folks who self-select for infantry often self-select for better personal discipline and harsher personal accountability.

Feel free to doubt Hester; she remains an exception to your prior generalizations, and I've got no reason to believe there aren't hundreds of others just like her who now have a greater chance to show it. And no, she and Nein were on foot when they took the enemy trench line.

No matter. As I said earlier, we could debate this fruitlessly all week; unless we're serving in this Marine's mortar squad, our opinions don't matter a bit.

 

[mibro]

Fine, but none of those women had volunteered to be an infantry Marine. Which, again, is a cut above. Folks who self-select for infantry often self-select for better personal discipline and harsher personal accountability.

Feel free to doubt Hester; she remains an exception to your prior generalizations, and I've got no reason to believe there aren't hundreds of others just like her who now have a greater chance to show it. And no, she and Nein were on foot when they took the enemy trench line.

No matter. As I said earlier, we could debate this fruitlessly all week; unless we're serving in this Marine's mortar squad, our opinions don't matter a bit.

I'll tell you what, in a possible first for NES, I have made my case and now I concede. You win, I am defeated.

 

[Picton]

I'll tell you what, in a possible first for NES, I have made my case and now I concede. You win, I am defeated.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

It needs to continue for weeks!

Weeks, I say!

 

[Darksideblues42]

Personally, I never quite understood the female desire to fill a body-bag, themselves or with someone else. I understand that if you put-up a barrier, someone will come-along and make it their life's mission to climb-over it and get to the other side. Yay. The Marine Infantry sole-purpose is to kill people - save all that "foreign-aid provider/peacekeeper" crap, that's what the UN Sissies and Peace Corps is for, totally different people and mindset. We send-in the Marines to shoot and kill people, destroy things, and demolish everything in their path. There is zero room for femininity in that task....but there it is.

Did you forget "Embassy Security"?

 

[namedpipes]

Good for her. She is certainly a person that some girls can look up to.
...

I suspect she is not alone as someone you look up to.

...

I'd hit dat

Well, we KNEW that

 

[heron163]

Not really the point. Only perhaps 5% of men are enthusiastic killers in wartime. The other 95% are reluctant to take human lives and suffer some mental consequences if they do.

Why are women so anxious to join this fraternity?

The answer is that outside of a few freaks of nature they aren't. But some women do want to invade one of the few remaining male spaces just to stick it - again - to da man.

These women are egged on by the spiteful post-menopausal cat ladies in DC who have no idea what they're breaking and why they really shouldn't.

Maybe young men are different now due to the intense brainwashing they all receive, but there's no way I would have wanted to serve alongside women no matter how GI Janey they were. Just. Not. Interested.

read Grossman's book "On Killing"...

firing vs. non firing rates have changes significantly over the time... FPS video games, movies, TV shows etc. have created quite a different mindset in both sexes...

 

[noddaduma]

I get your point, in a pragmatic sense it's no big deal.

I guarantee you won't agree with what I'm about to say though as you are the fish in the sea, you have no idea water is wet.

When you set out to break down a culture, what you really need to do is demoralize the men. Women are useful as dupes, unwitting tools, but beyond that they are followers, they will follow whoever appears to be in charge and is setting the direction, you can safely ignore them. But the men, you need to break their sense of identity, their will to resist and push them to a place where there is nothing for them worth fighting for.

Women in the infantry is just one more violation of a male space, one more element in the breakdown of gender roles and one more brick in the cultural Marxist, collectivist wall rising all around us.

But yes, wimminz kan dewit two. Clap hands everybody.

Women have been killing bad guys since before you were sucking teat.

American women should be able to do it better than communists, I would think. Just haven't had the chance yet. Which is ironic, since equality is a founding principle here.

Of course, we shouldn't forget from our own history:

Deborah Samson Gannett
Margaret Corbin
Elizabeth Newcume
Sarah Rosetta Wakeman

there's others but that's a start.

 

[mibro]

Women have been killing bad guys since before you were sucking teat.

American women should be able to do it better than communists, I would think. Just haven't had the chance yet. Which is ironic, since equality is a founding principle here.

Of course, we shouldn't forget from our own history:

Deborah Samson Gannett
Margaret Corbin
Elizabeth Newcume
Sarah Rosetta Wakeman

there's others but that's a start.

You're correct, of course. This is a debate easily won by argument by exception.

I don't think the question is whether women can kill, however, as you pointed out, they can. It's about whether women are up to the physical rigors of infantry soldiering in the Marine Corps and whether the benefits of admitting the few who are outweigh the costs.

It will be interesting to see how this woman's Marine Corps career progresses. Commandant in about 25 years, maybe. Perhaps we'll have an all-female Marine Corps by then. Why not, eh? We men can sip cocktails by the pool while the ladies kick ass in Trashcanistan.

 

[Artifact]

Women have been killing bad guys since before you were sucking teat.

American women should be able to do it better than communists, I would think. Just haven't had the chance yet. Which is ironic, since equality is a founding principle here.

Of course, we shouldn't forget from our own history:

Deborah Samson Gannett
Margaret Corbin
Elizabeth Newcume
Sarah Rosetta Wakeman

there's others but that's a start.

Women back then had different priorities, they don't make them like that anymore.


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[Artifact]

You're correct, of course. This is a debate easily won by argument by exception.

I don't think the question is whether women can kill, however, as you pointed out, they can. It's about whether women are up to the physical rigors of infantry soldiering in the Marine Corps and whether the benefits of admitting the few who are outweigh the costs.

It will be interesting to see how this woman's Marine Corps career progresses. Commandant in about 25 years, maybe. Perhaps we'll have an all-female Marine Corps by then. Why not, eh? We men can sip cocktails by the pool while the ladies kick ass in Trashcanistan.

I hate to say it but it will not end up well for her being a female. We, will hear about her eventually and it won't be pretty. Military today it's not the military 2,3,4......years ago.


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[Andy in NH]

Not the female in the OP, but one of her classmates:

One of 1st Female Marine Grunts Faces Separation After Marrying Lance Corporal

"One of the first women to become an infantry Marine is facing an other-than-honorable discharge after having a relationship with a subordinate in her new unit.

Cpl. Remedios Cruz, a rifleman with 1st Battalion, 8th Marines, pleaded guilty to fraternization as part of a pre-trial agreement after leaders discovered she'd married a lance corporal with whom she had a romantic relationship, officials confirmed."

 

[308rifleman]

read Grossman's book "On Killing"...

firing vs. non firing rates have changes significantly over the time... FPS video games, movies, TV shows etc. have created quite a different mindset in both sexes...

During the Vietnam war, there was one particularly sadistic female VC platoon leader who specialized in torturing captured US Marines. Legendary Marine sniper Carlos Hathcock put an end to her depraved existence with a .30/06 round through her lungs and spinal cord. Women can be vicious killers the same as men.

 

[crazymjb]

Not the female in the OP, but one of her classmates:

One of 1st Female Marine Grunts Faces Separation After Marrying Lance Corporal

"One of the first women to become an infantry Marine is facing an other-than-honorable discharge after having a relationship with a subordinate in her new unit.

Cpl. Remedios Cruz, a rifleman with 1st Battalion, 8th Marines, pleaded guilty to fraternization as part of a pre-trial agreement after leaders discovered she'd married a lance corporal with whom she had a romantic relationship, officials confirmed."

She really took the infantry thing to heart... its BS and she should be shown the door for that (as an NCO), but she's just doing what, unfortunately, guys do all too frequently.

Mike

 

[sigfanboy13]

During the Vietnam war, there was one particularly sadistic female VC platoon leader who specialized in torturing captured US Marines. Legendary Marine sniper Carlos Hathcock put an end to her depraved existence with a .30/06 round through her lungs and spinal cord. Women can be vicious killers the same as men.

I thought that was her eye. Wasn't she supposedly the one who got shot straight through the scope?

 

[308rifleman]

I thought that was her eye. Wasn't she supposedly the one who got shot straight through the scope?

Hathcock shot the NVA's top sniper in the eye through the scope. The "Apache Woman" torturer was VC. The one thing that they have in common is the fact that Hathcock offed them both with one round each.

 

[teaser452]

Another epic NES thread.

Nobody has brought up St. Joan of Arc!

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Joan of Arc

She never learned to read or write, much like most people here.

I agree with mibro in most everything he posted.

 

[BrianWilson]

Mom.