Firearms in the Home - MA storage laws

[LoginName]

Combo trigger lock, reset combo to 0-0-0, keep it stored set to 0-0-1... you get the idea

 

[dcmdon]

Got three. 8, 10 and 16. Started shooting at 2.

I wasn't saying don't be reasonable. Just merely pointing out that you shouldn't treat guns like some mystical voodoo, because doing so make kids want to touch them more, not less.

Not saying you do Don, was throwing it out there in general.

I agree completely. Remove the mystery and allure. Teach safe use and encourage participation in shooting outings.

My 7 year old, in addition to guns, cooks on the stove and uses sharp knives with my supervision. She's awesome.

 

[Nickle]

Between the wife and I, we have 4 kids, 4 grandkids (or more) and 3 great grandkids.

Now, Don and xtry are both somewhat right, though I lean towards xtry.

It all depends on the kids and good parenting.

Easier to "houseproof" the kids, than "kidproof" the house. Plus, then they are safe, no matter where they go.

Yes, under about 5-6, they get supervision. That's just good sense and good parenting.

Yeah, it actually is that simple.

 

[Varmint]

My kids are 2 and 4 so I have a while before teaching them about guns, but my 4 year old saw me looking at the NES rifle classifieds and reached over and closed the page, saying something like "we don't look at guns." He's getting anti-training at daycare already I think. That's a bigger concern living in the nanny state. I figure when I teach them to shoot, hopefully demystifying guns will help with this issue.

 

[dcmdon]

My kids are 2 and 4 so I have a while before teaching them about guns, but my 4 year old saw me looking at the NES rifle classifieds and reached over and closed the page, saying something like "we don't look at guns." He's getting anti-training at daycare already I think. That's a bigger concern living in the nanny state. I figure when I teach them to shoot, hopefully demystifying guns will help with this issue.

You don't have a while.

You can begin normalizing firearms with the children now.

I never hid the fact that I carried guns or shot from my kids. When they hugged me, they felt it. I explained what it was and what it was for. I also explained to them that if they touch it without my supervision it can KILL them. Just like the stove. But just like the stove, when they got a bit older, they could use one all they wanted with my supervision.

We actually started the Eddie the Eagle drills before my children were 3. Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult. (get a reward). I figure by the time my oldest is 10 she'll be able to clear the gun before she tells the adult. ;-)

I have a friend with a very neurotic wife. They aren't allowed to know anything about them. Which kid is more likely to pick up a found gun at a friends house, Mine or my friend's?

Nickle - Your ideas above fail to take into account when your kids friends come to visit.

 

[Broc]

Varmint, now he is going to tell his teacher "daddy was looking at guns."

 

[dcmdon]

Unfortunately I've also had to have discussions with each of my children's teachers every year as well as their principal.

The gist of which goes like this. "we own guns. We go shooting as a family, I am not going to restrict my child's speech. References to firearms are not threats, do you understand and accept this, because if you don't, we can escalate this within the administration right now. I will be sending you an email asking for written confirmation of this discussion".

I say it nicely, but that is the message.

I never had a problem.

I know my cover is blown. But the alternative is worse.

Everyone has been surprisingly supportive. One teacher told me that my daughter should not ever feel like she could not do a report on going shooting with daddy. She gets it.

Don

 

[dcmdon]

I'm also a bit of a wackjob when it comes to the ethics of self defense.

I talk with my kids about when its ok to hit someone back. I explain to them that if they ever hit someone first they will be in BIG BIG trouble. And if someone else threatens to hit them they are to run away. (these are girls, so there isn't any of that bravado stuff)

However I also teach them that if someone hits you and you can't get away, you can hit the other person back as hard as you can. Its ok. In fact, its the right thing to do. But I'd better not hear that you started it.

Then we go over scenarios.

We do most of this while riding in the car. If we didn't do it, I'd just be listening to them tell me about the things kids tell you about.

 

[Varmint]

Varmint, now he is going to tell his teacher "daddy was looking at guns."

I get used to the idea they tell the teachers all kinds of stuff. "My daddy was touching mommy's bottom with the vacuum tube!" I think they've heard it all. I also get the impression the women at the daycare aren't liberals - but they might be preparing the kids for public school.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't have a while.

You can begin normalizing firearms with the children now.

I never hid the fact that I carried guns or shot from my kids. When they hugged me, they felt it. I explained what it was and what it was for. I also explained to them that if they touch it without my supervision it can KILL them. Just like the stove. But just like the stove, when they got a bit older, they could use one all they wanted with my supervision.

We actually started the Eddie the Eagle drills before my children were 3. Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult. (get a reward). I figure by the time my oldest is 10 she'll be able to clear the gun before she tells the adult. ;-)

I have a friend with a very neurotic wife. They aren't allowed to know anything about them. Which kid is more likely to pick up a found gun at a friends house, Mine or my friend's?

Nickle - Your ideas above fail to take into account when your kids friends come to visit.

Yeah, ok, when my 2 year old's friends come over for playdate I'll lock up the guns.

 

[Darksideblues42]

I'm also a bit of a wackjob when it comes to the ethics of self defense.

I talk with my kids about when its ok to hit someone back. I explain to them that if they ever hit someone first they will be in BIG BIG trouble. And if someone else threatens to hit them they are to run away. (these are girls, so there isn't any of that bravado stuff)

However I also teach them that if someone hits you and you can't get away, you can hit the other person back as hard as you can. Its ok. In fact, its the right thing to do. But I'd better not hear that you started it.

Then we go over scenarios.

We do most of this while riding in the car. If we didn't do it, I'd just be listening to them tell me about the things kids tell you about.

When my daughter was younger, as I was picking her up from an after school program a little boy walked up to me and grabbed my jacket and said

"M's Dad, she threw me down on the playground today"

The Staff Member said "J, what did you do first?"

The little boy starts to shuffle his feet and look sheepish and he says "I pinched her bum"

Staff Member "Then what happened?"

Little Boy "She turned around, picked me up by my jacket and threw me on my face"

Staff member "Will you pinch her bum again?

Little Boy "No, she is scary"

I high-fived my daughter and we got ice cream on the way home.

 

[Varmint]

I teach my two boys to defend each other as well, although to be honest they seem to do that instinctually. My 2 year old chest bumped a 6 year on the playground cause he was bothering my 4 year old. I tried not to laugh.

 

[knfmn]

You don't have a while.

You can begin normalizing firearms with the children now.

I figure by the time my oldest is 10 she'll be able to clear the gun before she tells the adult. ;-)

By the time she's 10? Jeez...you're slacking. She should be able to clear it herself, then tactical roll to your location to tell you about it at that point. [emoji3]

I agree with what others are saying here: demystify guns. I grew up in a house full of guns. I can't remember the first time I fired a gun. I got my own rifle when I was 9. (We lived overseas where guns weren't allowed for six years before then) It was my rifle. It was given to me and I stored it and my ammunition in my room. Never any concerns. My nieces and nephews grew up with guns in their houses and coming over to my parents house where there was always a ton of guns sitting around. They knew that they weren't allowed to touch them unsupervised before they reached an age of responsibility, but they were allowed to see any of them at any time if they just asked. It took all the mystery out of them. Never a single issue.

Follow the storage laws in MA. They're one of the things that can really screw you as a gun owner here. If you live elsewhere, just use some sense. Show the guns to your kids and teach them safety. There won't be any problems.

 

[FAS1]

Consider one that uses the 5 buttom Simplex lock - mechanical, reliable, no lockout period, and you can program it to open with as little as a single button press.

Another thing that people don't usually think of with this type of lock is that you can have a fairly complex code and just pre-punch all or part of the code when going to sleep. In the morning just turn the knob counterclockwise to reset.

 

[dcmdon]

Another thing that people don't usually think of with this type of lock is that you can have a fairly complex code and just pre-punch all or part of the code when going to sleep. In the morning just turn the knob counterclockwise to reset.

I had a moderately sized bedroom safe with a mechanical dial lock. I tried to convince myself that would work. It would happen that half the time I'd forget that I had pre dialed the first 2 numbers. Or I'd get it wrong. It only worked about 25% of the time. I ended up installing a digital lock.

I don't want to get into a digital vs mechanical debate. All I'm saying is that trying to remember that you partially set up a lock to open is difficult in practice. It was too much for my weak brain anyway.

Don

 

[RDG]

I had a moderately sized bedroom safe with a mechanical dial lock. I tried to convince myself that would work. It would happen that half the time I'd forget that I had pre dialed the first 2 numbers. Or I'd get it wrong. It only worked about 25% of the time. I ended up installing a digital lock.

I don't want to get into a digital vs mechanical debate. All I'm saying is that trying to remember that you partially set up a lock to open is difficult in practice. It was too much for my weak brain anyway.

Don

I think this is where the 5 bottom simplex locks really shine. No real reason to "pre-stage" the combination. Even with using 5 buttons, it still only takes a second to open.

You can do it in the dark, left or right handed. You get so used to doing it, your muscle memory takes over and just does it without thinking.

Best at comprimise for a quick action safe.

 

[Nickle]

Nickle - Your ideas above fail to take into account when your kids friends come to visit.

Actually, they did - that's the supervision part. If I were to get technical, my son is 39, daughter is 38. Step daughter and step son are botth dirtbags not welcome here (she's a prohibited possessor, I think he is too, don't trust him anyways). Of the grandchildren, all shoot or have shot. Both grandsons and my son & daughter have been to Appleseeds, long ago. My son is a small arms/artillery repairer/inspector (full time) and an SSG part time (done 2 deployments, Iraq/A-stan) so he's certainly no problem.

Now the great grandkids and any of their friends, well, that's where the supervision thing comes in. They don't go into rooms that have guns inside without an escort (and accompanying supervision). Almost all folks up here raise their kids to be safe anyways, and any that want to push the rules aren't welcome back.

Yeah, it's that simple and it works. Remember, even most liberals up here are armed. 30+ miles northwest of here, different story. They are mostly liberal idiots.

Best at comprimise for a quick action safe.

Legally speaking, I can get away with all kinds of things most of you can't. It's just like NH here, not many rules.

That said, we've got lock sets (key locks) on the room doors that hold the guns. And, I will say I vastly prefer a mechanical digital lock over either electronic or manual. Easier to manipulate under stress, and when you need it to work, no fear the battery is dead.

 

[FAS1]

I had a moderately sized bedroom safe with a mechanical dial lock. I tried to convince myself that would work. It would happen that half the time I'd forget that I had pre dialed the first 2 numbers. Or I'd get it wrong. It only worked about 25% of the time. I ended up installing a digital lock.

I don't want to get into a digital vs mechanical debate. All I'm saying is that trying to remember that you partially set up a lock to open is difficult in practice. It was too much for my weak brain anyway.

Don

A dial mechanical lock is not the same as a push-button mechanical lock with regards to quick access. "Simplex" is a push button lock. Very simple quick, durable to operate even in complete darkness. I was just pointing out an often overlooked feature of it.

 

[Cabin Fever]

You don't have a while.

You can begin normalizing firearms with the children now.

I never hid the fact that I carried guns or shot from my kids. When they hugged me, they felt it. I explained what it was and what it was for. I also explained to them that if they touch it without my supervision it can KILL them. Just like the stove. But just like the stove, when they got a bit older, they could use one all they wanted with my supervision.

We actually started the Eddie the Eagle drills before my children were 3. Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult. (get a reward). I figure by the time my oldest is 10 she'll be able to clear the gun before she tells the adult. ;-)

I have a friend with a very neurotic wife. They aren't allowed to know anything about them. Which kid is more likely to pick up a found gun at a friends house, Mine or my friend's?

Nickle - Your ideas above fail to take into account when your kids friends come to visit.

Shooting is a part of Olympic sports. I wonder how many people who might have no firearms experience (but be inherently nervous/anti) realize that.

 

[Individualist]

A dial mechanical lock is not the same as a push-button mechanical lock with regards to quick access. "Simplex" is a push button lock. Very simple quick, durable to operate even in complete darkness. I was just pointing out an often overlooked feature of it.

I'll second, third, fourth... the Fort Knox pistol box with a Simplex lock. Easy and very fast to open in the dark.

Does anyone know of a good full size long gun safe with a Simplex?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Another thing that people don't usually think of with this type of lock is that you can have a fairly complex code and just pre-punch all or part of the code when going to sleep. In the morning just turn the knob counterclockwise to reset.

Or you can have a really complex code by using the undocumented "half press" positions. Each push of the button rotates the wheel assembly 2 quanta, not one. This increases the possible combinations WAY above thhe 1825 or so possible with full press.

A dial mechanical lock is not the same as a push-button mechanical lock with regards to quick access. "Simplex" is a push button lock. Very simple quick, durable to operate even in complete darkness. I was just pointing out an often overlooked feature of it.

Dial (S&G Group II or better) is a high security lock. Simplex is a low/medium security, but easier to quickly operate especially in the dark. Different locks for different functions.

Shooting is a part of Olympic sports. I wonder how many people who might have no firearms experience (but be inherently nervous/anti) realize that.

I wonder how many shooters know that the UIT (governing body for Olympic shooting) is anti-gun. The UIT lobbied to keep IPSC out of the Olympics and the UIT president said IPSC was just an excuse for people to keep 45s they should be turning into the government. UIT also declared that no individual who participates in IPSC may be elected as a UIT representative (UIT threatened to disaffiliate any region that did so), and UIT competitors are not to participate in or support IPSC.

 

[dcmdon]

A dial mechanical lock is not the same as a push-button mechanical lock with regards to quick access. "Simplex" is a push button lock. Very simple quick, durable to operate even in complete darkness. I was just pointing out an often overlooked feature of it.

I know that. I wasn't trying to draw any connection between the two other than that entering part of a combination ahead of time and trying to remember where you were and enter the final part under duress is a bad idea.

- - - Updated - - -

Shooting is a part of Olympic sports. I wonder how many people who might have no firearms experience (but be inherently nervous/anti) realize that.

The junior rifle team was practicing at MRA one day while I was there and one of the kids was wearing a T shirt that said

"I participate in an Olympic sport that I can't talk about in school". Awesome.

 

[Nickle]

I know that. I wasn't trying to draw any connection between the two other than that entering part of a combination ahead of time and trying to remember where you were and enter the final part under duress is a bad idea.

Yup, very bad idea.

Folks, you had better be able to do what's needed while you're half asleep, half drunk and under considerable stress.

When it's crunch time, you won't rise to your best, you'll default to your worst. That's just how the human mind operates.

You've got to get it down to muscle memory.

 

[MaynardDad]

Or you can have a really complex code by using the undocumented "half press" positions. Each push of the button rotates the wheel assembly 2 quanta, not one. This increases the possible combinations WAY above thhe 1825 or so possible with full press.

Simplex locks have 1081 different combinations without half-steps and 2162 different combinations with half-steps. So a bored but persistent pre-teen with a couple of hours to kill (perhaps split over multiple home-alone sessions) could still try them all. I still like Simplex locks; they are just not appropriate for every application/situation.

FAS1 sells a pistol box that has a Simplex lock with a key. You can lock it when you leave the kids home alone so they can't try combinations.

Dial (S&G Group II or better) is a high security lock. Simplex is a low/medium security, but easier to quickly operate especially in the dark. Different locks for different functions.

+1

For cases where such a lock is the right choice but a big safe is not an option: Sportsman Steel Safes makes a small pistol box with an S&G Group II 6730 lock.

 

[AHM]

Serious questions

My kids are 2 and 4 so I have a while before teaching them about guns, ...

You don't have a while.

You can begin normalizing firearms with the children now.
...
We actually started the Eddie the Eagle drills before my children were 3. Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult. (get a reward). I figure by the time my oldest is 10 she'll be able to clear the gun before she tells the adult. ;-) ...

I've never tried to see all the Eddie Eagle materials. How does that joke between proud adults mix with the program?

• What have your kids learned to do if other kids won't leave the gun alone?
• What have your kids learned to do if another kid has already picked the gun up?

Now suppose your daughter does become a true elite operator by age 10. Her own Cricket. A vest full of patches. A shelf full of trophies.

• Under what circumstances do you want her getting fingerprints on a playground gun?
• Under what circumstances do you want her witnessed handling a gun in the absence of a licensed person?

Stupid questions? Obvious answers. But in the gravest extreme:

• Do you want to drive her to a memorial for some pudding-headed playmate who stood mesmerized until they caught a bullet ND'ed by another pudding-head fondling the playground piece?

-or-
​

• Do you want her to defuse a deadly situation by clearing the piece? Even if she's immediately jacked up on possession charges? Tarred for life as a PP? Maybe lose your house to lawyer's fees to get the plea deal? Maybe have you found "unsuitable" or an unfit parent.

Because if Janie sees Johnnie waving a playground gun and she safes it, you just know that around here Janie's goin' to jail.

And the parents of all the other kids and the MSM will agree that she had it coming for being a gun nut.

We live in a society that can make us choose needlessly between our lives, and the lives of our friends. Have your kids learned how you want them to choose?

---

but my 4 year old saw me looking at the NES rifle classifieds and reached over and closed the page, saying something like "we don't look at guns." He's getting anti-training at daycare already I think. That's a bigger concern living in the nanny state. I figure when I teach them to shoot, hopefully demystifying guns will help with this issue.

If you let your 4-yo keep getting brainwashed by daycare providers, will you ever be able to undo it?

 

[Tarsook]

We live in a society that can make us choose needlessly between our our lives, and the lives of our friends. Have your kids learned how you want them to choose?

I've seen some sensationalist questions asked on this board, but you sir win the prize for the week and its only Monday.

 

[Varmint]

I've never tried to see all the Eddie Eagle materials. How does that joke between proud adults mix with the program?

• What have your kids learned to do if other kids won't leave the gun alone?
• What have your kids learned to do if another kid has already picked the gun up?

Now suppose your daughter does become a true elite operator by age 10. Her own Cricket. A vest full of patches. A shelf full of trophies.

• Under what circumstances do you want her getting fingerprints on a playground gun?
• Under what circumstances do you want her witnessed handling a gun in the absence of a licensed person?

Stupid questions? Obvious answers. But in the gravest extreme:

• Do you want to drive her to a memorial for some pudding-headed playmate who stood mesmerized until they caught a bullet ND'ed by another pudding-head fondling the playground piece?

-or-
​

• Do you want her to defuse a deadly situation by clearing the piece? Even if she's immediately jacked up on possession charges? Tarred for life as a PP? Maybe lose your house to lawyer's fees to get the plea deal? Maybe have you found "unsuitable" or an unfit parent.

Because if Janie sees Johnnie waving a playground gun and she safes it, you just know that around here Janie's goin' to jail.

And the parents of all the other kids and the MSM will agree that she had it coming for being a gun nut.

We live in a society that can make us choose needlessly between our our lives, and the lives of our friends. Have your kids learned how you want them to choose?

---

If you let your 4-yo keep getting brainwashed by daycare providers, will you ever be able to undo it?

I have no idea what your post is saying, except the last part. Yeah, he learned to stop pooping in his pants, I think he'll be alright.

 

[Greschner 4]

Do storage laws differ for commercial space?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Do storage laws differ for commercial space?

Not according to the law. However gun shops seem to get a "pass" even though the LE expert correctly has pointed out that there is no exemption in MGL.