Firearm "registration"

[Half Cocked]

I have been reading this forum and all of the threads regarding the filing of FA-10's on private transfers.

Could someone please tell me where in Ma law it states that one must "register" a firearm?

i.e. if my father passes away and he owns firearms and I take possession of them and I am licensed. Where is there a requirement to file an FA-10?

If the old timer who lives next door to me wishes to give me a couple of firearms that he owns. Where is the requirement to file an FA-10.

I do not see any "registration" requirements in Ma Law and or any penalties.

I only see that as a "seller" that you would want to file an FA-10 to transfer ownership in the event that the firearm turns up somewhere in the future.

Where in the law does it make this a requirement for the private citizen?

Am I missing something?

 

[Cross-X]

The FA 10 memorializes the change of ownership. You can't just "take possession" from an estate without there being a change of ownership.

 

[Half Cocked]

With all due respect, show me where the law requires this.

 

[Twigg]

Cross-X is an attorney who specializes in firearms.

I'd listen to him iffin' I were you.

 

[Half Cocked]

I will listen if he can show me the law. I consider myself knowledgeable of Ma law. I see nowhere a "registration" requirement of Ma law but yet everyone on this forum talks about it.

I understand that if I were selling a gun to someone that I would want a FA-10 filed to document the sale in the event that the gun were to "show up" somewhere down the road. This is smart practice but show me where the filing of an FA-10 is a requirement under Ma Law.

 

[vellnueve]

Then you're ignorant, and very bad at reading.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-128b.htm

Cross-X is one of the top 2-3 firearms lawyers in this state. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[Half Cocked]

As you do not know me or have any idea of my knowledge or personal history you can do away with the "retarded" comments.

As I read the first sentence of 140-128B:

"other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A"

It does not apply to those who possess a LTC.

 

[pdm]

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm

 

[vellnueve]

As you do not know me or have any idea of my knowledge or personal history you can do away with the "retarded" comments.

As I read the first sentence of 140-128B:

"other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A"

It does not apply to those who possess a LTC issued under section 122.

Section 122 refers to persons holding a Massachusetts DEALER'S LICENSE. So if you buy from a Massachusetts dealer, you don't have to report it because THEY have to.

You've clearly read nothing, not even the section that you made reference to in your quote. If you want to continue to insist that you don't need to register firearms you receive from someone other than a MA dealer, then go ahead, because Cross-X will have a new client very soon.

Don't claim to do the research unless you've actually done it. I'm waiting for Scriv to get here.

 

[Scrivener]

Section 122 refers to persons holding a Massachusetts DEALER'S LICENSE. So if you buy from a Massachusetts dealer, you don't have to report it because THEY have to.

Absolutely correct.

You've clearly read nothing, not even the section that you made reference to in your quote. If you want to continue to insist that you don't need to register firearms you receive from someone other than a MA dealer, then go ahead, because Cross-X will have a new client very soon.

Don't claim to do the research unless you've actually done it. I'm waiting for Scriv to get here.

Correct again.

The OP has again proven, not that it was needed, that there are those who are willfully ignorant and dislike being disturbed from that state.

Let him wallow in his cretinous delusions.

 

[Half Cocked]

Thanks for the ridicule and criticism but I will refer to this:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm

Again where does it say anywhere about the person receiving a gun having to file a FA-10.

Everything I find has to do with the seller/giver.

Where is someone going to violate the law by having a gun given to them or sold to them and then not filing a FA-10.

 

[digitech]

Chapter 140: Section 128B. Unauthorized purchase of firearms; report to commissioner; penalties


Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the executive director of the criminal history systems board the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall for the first offense be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years.


Chapter 140: Section 128A. Application of Sec. 128


Section 128A. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; provided, however, that the seller has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, is an exempt person under the conditions of clauses (n), (o), (r) and (s) of the fourth paragraph of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or is permitted to transfer ownership under the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D and the purchaser has, in the case of sale or transfer of a firearm, a permit to purchase issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one A and a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or has such permit to purchase and is an exempt person under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or has been issued a license to carry firearms under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty, or in the case of sale or transfer of a rifle or shotgun, the purchaser has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms or is an exempt person as hereinbefore stated; and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the executive director of the criminal history systems board on forms furnished by said executive director, the names and addresses of the seller and the purchaser of any such large capacity feeding device, firearm, rifle or shotgun, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including its designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, the calibre, make and serial number and the purchaser’s license to carry firearms number, permit to purchase number and identifying number of such documentation as is used to establish exempt person status in the case of a firearm or the purchaser’s license to carry number or firearm identification card number or said document identity number, in the case of a rifle or shotgun.

 

[kevin9]

As you do not know me or have any idea of my knowledge or personal history you can do away with the "retarded" comments.

As I read the first sentence of 140-128B:

"other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A"

It does not apply to those who possess a LTC issued under section 122.

Wrong. LTCs are primarily covered in Section 131, not 122. Sections 122 and 128A cover licensing of dealers to sell firearms. The situation you have described does not involve a dealer therefore the Section 122 and 128A exemptions to 122B are not applicable in this case.

Thanks for the ridicule and criticism but I will refer to this:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm

Again where does it say anywhere about the person receiving a gun having to file a FA-10.

Everything I find has to do with the seller/giver.

Where is someone going to violate the law by having a gun given to them or sold to them and then not filing a FA-10.

Although Section 129c says nothing about filing an FA-10 Section 128B does: It says you have to, unless you get it from a dealer, in which case they have to.

 

[vellnueve]

For a non-dealer, MGL 140 S128B says it all.

Don't try to go to law school.

You've had a number of people, including two firearms-specialized lawyers, explain this to you. If you still don't get it, looks like one of them will have a client in the near future.

 

[vellnueve]

I love how Scrivener erring on the side of caution involves someone else crying.

 

[vellnueve]

And your point?

Since you missed it the first two times, here it is again:

I assume you have looked at the link posted? MGL 128 is very interesting

 

[drgrant]

With all due respect, show me where the law requires this.

The law doesn't require "registration" but it does require reporting a transfer. This basically makes it, "de facto" registration. The only real exception is guns that one moves
into the state with when they take residency here.

And yes, as others have stated... whenever Cross-X or Scriv talks about legal matters, it's a pretty wise idea to listen to them.... they know the ins and outs of this stuff way better than most of us can imagine... including the stuff that doesn't show up in the law books... (eg, what actually happens with the system, etc. )

-Mike

 

[Half Cocked]

Well gentleman, Ma GL C140-28B only applies to firearms that are NOT obtained from a gunsmith licensed under S122 or a resident authorized to sell firearms under S128A.

S128A allows licensed residents to sell up to 4 guns a year and requires the SELLER to submit an FA-10.

Sooooo..... if I am given a firearm from a licensed resident of Massachusetts where is the requirement for ME to submit an FA-10?

 

[Cross-X]

Sooooo..... if I am given a firearm from a licensed resident of Massachusetts where is the requirement for ME to submit an FA-10?

Unbelievable.

 

[digitech]

Chapter 140: Section 128B. Unauthorized purchase of firearms; report to commissioner; penalties


Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A.......


Chapter 140: Section 128A. Application of Sec. 128


Section 128A. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; provided, however, that the seller has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, is an exempt person under the conditions of clauses (n), (o), (r) and (s) of the fourth paragraph of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or is permitted to transfer ownership under the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D and the purchaser has, in the case of sale or transfer of a firearm, a permit to purchase issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one A and a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or has such permit to purchase and is an exempt person under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or has been issued a license to carry firearms under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty, or in the case of sale or transfer of a rifle or shotgun, the purchaser has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms or is an exempt person as hereinbefore stated; and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the executive director of the criminal history systems board on forms furnished by said executive director, the names and addresses of the seller and the purchaser of any such large capacity feeding device, firearm, rifle or shotgun, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including its designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, the calibre, make and serial number and the purchaser’s license to carry firearms number, permit to purchase number and identifying number of such documentation as is used to establish exempt person status in the case of a firearm or the purchaser’s license to carry number or firearm identification card number or said document identity number, in the case of a rifle or shotgun.

 

[drgrant]

Well gentleman, Ma GL C140-28B only applies to firearms that are NOT obtained from a gunsmith licensed under S122 or a resident authorized to sell firearms under S128A.

Wrong. Read it again, and again.... Read the bolded parts.

Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee

The whole FA-10 "filing responsibility" thing, however, has some legal grayness attached to it... there is at least one giant thread about this, but the bottom line is at the end of the day, what is not gray, is the fact that someone has to file it to fulfill the requirement of the law. I don't see any "mulligan" being given to the buyer in the law WRT this requirement.

-Mike

 

[jdubois]

I don't see any "mulligan" being given to the buyer in the law WRT this requirement.

Agreed. The law seems pretty clear. If the seller doesn't file the FA-10 under 128A, then you as the buyer are obligated to do it under 128B.

 

[Fsorrent]

S128A allows licensed residents to sell up to 4 guns a year and requires the SELLER to submit an FA-10.

QUOTE]

You just answered yourself there swifty!!!

 

[Half Cocked]

digitech wrote: Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A.......


You are missing where it says...other than from a licensee under S122 (gunsmith) or a person authorized to sell firearms under S128A (licensed resident).

This section applies to guns purchased from UNLICENSED individuals!!

 

[Half Cocked]

S128A allows licensed residents to sell up to 4 guns a year and requires the SELLER to submit an FA-10.

QUOTE]

You just answered yourself there swifty!!!

Hey, thanks for the swifty comment but I know that the SELLER needs to file. My question focuses around the one who receives a gun from another licensed person.

 

[Fsorrent]

well then, if you so convince that your right...then I have no grounds to argue against you. Simply stated, go forward with your assumptions but know that you've been educated by people who know these laws in and out.

 

[Scrivener]

You are missing where it says...other than from a licensee under S122 (gunsmith) or a person authorized to sell firearms under S128A (licensed resident).

This section applies to guns purchased from UNLICENSED individuals!!

Your screen name is certainly appropriate.

If you actually knew anything about Mass. gun laws, you would know that you cannot lawfully obtain possession from an unlicensed individual, other than inheritance or liquidation of an estate. You would also know that an FA-10 would be required from the person acquiring the gun under those circumstances.

Since you obviously intend to serve no intelligent purpose with your presence than to spew misinformation, I suggest you go back to the DU site or crawl back under your bridge.

 

[Fsorrent]

actually, I never really mentioned the SELL...i just copied your post. The language in the law I believe states SELL or TRANSFER, which basically covers a lot of verbage.

 

[dwarven1]

Look, Half cocked, you've had TWO LAWYERS who specialize in FIREARMS LAW here explain that you're wrong. Pray tell, what qualifications do YOU bring to this? Are YOU a lawyer? IOW, why should we believe you when we all KNOW that Cross-X and Scrivener know what they're talking about?

 

[drgrant]

This section applies to guns purchased from UNLICENSED individuals!!

Wrong again. UNLICENSED (in the realm of this subject of MA law) = doesn't have an FFL/MA dealer license, not a
person without an LTC/FID. If you read the part of the law which describes a "licensee" you would know this.


Edit: To put things in better perspective, realize that in MA law applies a slightly different set of laws to dealer transactions version that of "joe citizen with an LTC/FID".

-Mike