Finishing an 80% lower

[NH Phantom]

Should work. I use 5D tactical jig. I recommend them. Really wouldn't buy a jig to do just 1 though.

 

[dhuze]

I've used Modulous and 80% solutions on multiple lowers from various companies.

They all use the disclaimer that their jigs may not work with all manufactures.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

An 07 doing work for another 07 works under a variance. A gunsmith cannot engage in manufacturing at all.

Yes, the Gunsmiths I had spoken-with were full 07 License-holders.

 

[Mesatchornug]

personally, i think it's useless to buy an 80% and not get a jig at the same time. that's being a "skinflint."

ORLY?

 

[pastera]

Might be a stupid question. Asking for a friend who bought an 80% from a guy in a place; are the jigs universal? If he had no jig, could he "find" one somewhere and use it for his lower?

If you are going to use a mill, I have a set of side plates I made that you can borrow - won't work for a drill press job

 

[namedpipes]

Yes, the Gunsmiths I had spoken-with were full 07 License-holders.

Then they did not do the work as a gunsmith but as a manufacturer and if they did that without a variance from the ATF and they find out then you can visit them on alternate Thursdays.

 

[allen-1]

are they? some seem proprietary and come with certain manufacturers 80% lowers. but also, i'm sure there are 80%s out there exactly like the standard colt m-4 style receiver shape. the jig from a polymer 80 lower won't fit my buddies lower of another manufacture that came without one.
personally, i think it's useless to buy an 80% and not get a jig at the same time. that's being a "skinflint."

I haven't run into any issues with different brands of 80% lowers that I've run; but admittedly I've got somewhat limited experience - I'm building them for my own use. I haven't played with the polymer ones, just don't care for them; I like watching the aluminum curl.

I've got two friends who are currently collecting parts. I'm lending them my jigs when they're ready to start building.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

Then they did not do the work as a gunsmith but as a manufacturer and if they did that without a variance from the ATF and they find out then you can visit them on alternate Thursdays.

There are folks in the state of MA who are fully licensed for “all the above”....it isn’t illegal or burdensome if you do the paperwork and obtain the proper credentials. These guys have their local ATF rep on speed-dial. If there is a question of legality, they don’t need to assume things or “wing-it” like the majority of the NES brain-trust. They make the call and ask how to proceed. I’ve been told the MA ATF folks are quite helpful and don’t play ‘gotcha’ games as some might be led to believe.....

 

[namedpipes]

There are folks in the state of MA who are fully licensed for “all the above”....it isn’t illegal or burdensome if you do the paperwork and obtain the proper credentials. These guys have their local ATF rep on speed-dial. If there is a question of legality, they don’t need to assume things or “wing-it” like the majority of the NES brain-trust. They make the call and ask how to proceed. I’ve been told the MA ATF folks are quite helpful and don’t play ‘gotcha’ games as some might be led to believe.....

A gunsmith performs certain tasks / procedures. A manufacturer performs other tasks / procedures.

A licensed gunsmith cannot lawfully complete a receiver for someone else, even a manufacturer.

A manufacturer cannot do ANY work for another manufacturer except under a variance.

You can ask Lisa for yourself. Do you need the phone number?

 

[42!]

A gunsmith performs certain tasks / procedures. A manufacturer performs other tasks / procedures.

A licensed gunsmith cannot lawfully complete a receiver for someone else, even a manufacturer.

A manufacturer cannot do ANY work for another manufacturer except under a variance.

You can ask Lisa for yourself. Do you need the phone number?

Can a manufacturer subcontract for parts and/or work to a non FFL holder (i.e. a machine shop)? Assuming any assembly is done by the manufacturer.

 

[namedpipes]

A manufacturer can subcontract (with that variance) for another manufacturer. Doing manufacturing work "for" someone that isn't an 07 feels like a violation. That's akin to taking someone's 80% and finishing it for them, then handing it back.

 

[42!]

A manufacturer can subcontract (with that variance) for another manufacturer. Doing manufacturing work "for" someone that isn't an 07 feels like a violation. That's akin to taking someone's 80% and finishing it for them, then handing it back.

You have it backwards. I wasn't asking if an 07 can do work "for" someone else (non-07). I was asking if an 07 could have someone else (non-07) do piecework for them. An example might be for an 07 to contract with a local machine shop (non-07) to make bolts or maybe even the receiver. The non-07 is only producing that part under contract with the 07. The remainder of the manufacturing process is done by the 07 directly.

 

[namedpipes]

You have it backwards. I wasn't asking if an 07 can do work "for" someone else (non-07). I was asking if an 07 could have someone else (non-07) do piecework for them. An example might be for an 07 to contract with a local machine shop (non-07) to make bolts or maybe even the receiver. The non-07 is only producing that part under contract with the 07. The remainder of the manufacturing process is done by the 07 directly.

An 07 can purchase or have made any parts that aren't controlled by ATF. (So can YOU)

An 07 could not "send out" 80% receivers to be finished (not even a "little" bit) unless the shop is ALSO an 07 and has a variance to do work for the first 07. So Acme Rifles could have Smith and Wesson manufacture lowers for them and engrave them as Acme's product, not S&W's, as long as the paperwork is done.

But before Jim's Metal Shop can do the same thing, Jim has to BECOME an 07 AND complete the variance paperwork. There are a ton of machine shops that have become 07's for that specific purpose, to make parts for others.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

A manufacturer can subcontract (with that variance) for another manufacturer. Doing manufacturing work "for" someone that isn't an 07 feels like a violation. That's akin to taking someone's 80% and finishing it for them, then handing it back.

IF said 'manufacturer' filled-out a Form 4473, and then eFA-10'ed the finished product prior to transfer to the customer, what is the issue? Are you saying this can't be done legally in MA?

 

[namedpipes]

IF said 'manufacturer' filled-out a Form 4473, and then eFA-10'ed the finished product prior to transfer to the customer, what is the issue? Are you saying this can't be done legally in MA?

Are you asking if an FFL/07 can sell a gun? Well of course. That's sorta the whole idea of GETTING an FFL... But he CAN'T perform manufacturing "services" to someone other than himself. He CAN perform gunsmithing (in MA assuming he also obtains a license to gunsmith) services for others, but again, what you described is not gunsmithing but manufacturing.

 

[42!]

IF said 'manufacturer' filled-out a Form 4473, and then eFA-10'ed the finished product prior to transfer to the customer, what is the issue? Are you saying this can't be done legally in MA?

What namedpipes said.
Basically you'd be selling the 07 metal (the 80%) and he would manufacturer a gun, with his name and serial number, which he could sell to you.
The problem for you is that the gun was manufactured after 7/20, so you could not have possessed it prior to the AG BS. Which I think is what you are trying to work around.

 

[smokingbarrel]

So not to thread jack but once the 80 percent is done all that needs to be done is to serialize and register it?

 

[NH Phantom]

So not to thread jack but once the 80 percent is done all that needs to be done is to serialize and register it?

If you are keeping it for yourself you don’t need to do anything. That’s the reason for doing an 80

 

[smokingbarrel]

If you are keeping it for yourself you don’t need to do anything. That’s the reason for doing an 80

Even being a MA resident ? If i was to put a S/N on it and reg it im I putting a target on my back due to the ban.

 

[namedpipes]

Even being a MA resident ? If i was to put a S/N on it and reg it im I putting a target on my back due to the ban.

You are NOT required to put a serial number on it (and might have trouble finding an FFL that will even engrave that for you).

It's a matter of opinion (much like Maura's Personal AWB) whether you're required to efa-10 it, however, even if you do there is STILL no requirement for a serial number.

Actually, it's EXACTLY the same as Maura's PAWB. An unfounded opinion that someone articulated years ago and everybody just believed. Read further back in this thread for some data points.

 

[smokingbarrel]

You are NOT required to put a serial number on it (and might have trouble finding an FFL that will even engrave that for you).

It's a matter of opinion (much like Maura's Personal AWB) whether you're required to efa-10 it, however, even if you do there is STILL no requirement for a serial number.

Actually, it's EXACTLY the same as Maura's PAWB. An unfounded opinion that someone articulated years ago and everybody just believed. Read further back in this thread for some data points.

The company i was thinking of buying the 80 from said they will engrave the lower if i need it before even shipping.

I have been searching the forum and reading the posts i just want to make sure Im legal and able to bring it out to the range.

 

[namedpipes]

I believe California requires a Serial Number on 80% lowers (or perhaps when it's completed) but MA does not.

Nothing bars you from engraving a s/n but nothing REQUIRES it, either.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No S/N required unless you go to dispose of the gun.

MGL requires you to register it (with NO S/N) within 7 days of it being completed. That is the interpretation of "acquired" used by those in the various legal departments of EOPS. Yes, I'm sure many don't register them. If at some time someone looks into it, I'd be surprised if they didn't face some legal action (based on knowing many of those that make these decisions).

 

[namedpipes]

No S/N required unless you go to dispose of the gun.

MGL requires you to register it (with NO S/N) within 7 days of it being completed. That is the interpretation of "acquired" used by those in the various legal departments of EOPS. Yes, I'm sure many don't register them. If at some time someone looks into it, I'd be surprised if they didn't face some legal action (based on knowing many of those that make these decisions).

Len, can you cite the law or reg that requires a s/n to be engraved upon disposing of the firearm? I've never seen a definitive cite on that point.

 

[bfm]

MGL requires you to register it (with NO S/N) within 7 days of it being completed.

Anyone heard of someone registering a rifle built from an 80% post 7/20?

 

[Boris]

Anyone heard of someone registering a rifle built from an 80% post 7/20?

there are no letters coming back from Gulag.

You can send FA-10 and it would be an admission to Mora that you completed a rifle despite her edict. Balsy, but not a good idea.

Try no to register guns that you build "until it's able to discharge a shot", it's not illegal.

 

[amm5061]

there are no letters coming back from Gulag.

You can send FA-10 and it would be an admission to Mora that you completed a rifle despite her edict. Balsy, but not a good idea.

Try no to register guns that you build "until it's able to discharge a shot", it's not illegal.

If you never put a completed upper on it, you never completed it! Not a firearm, never was, no need to register.

 

[allen-1]

If you never put a completed upper on it, you never completed it! Not a firearm, never was, no need to register.

That's so funny - only in Massachusetts.
Everywhere else the receiver IS the firearm.
The state's idiocy actually works to your benefit here.

 

[amm5061]

That's so funny - only in Massachusetts.
Everywhere else the receiver IS the firearm.
The state's idiocy actually works to your benefit here.

Yup. Gotta love the fact that the state tried to make their own definition of a firearm.

 

[JRLB]

Anyone heard of someone registering a rifle built from an 80% post 7/20?

Most people probably wouldn’t register it as an “AR15”, so unless the AG wants to check out in person, they really won’t know what it is.