Finally succeeded at 1911 trigger job

wheelgun

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I got an S&W1911 a couple years ago. It came with a loose fitting trigger that rattled etc. That was easy enough to fix - bought a Greider oversize trigger from Brownells and it fit perfectly.

However there was still creep in the trigger, so I did some reading and bought an Ed Brown sear jig (also from Brownells). It's pretty easy to use, not too expensive ($40) and is adjustable for angle of "cut". I decided to use it at the preset primary angle since I had no experience at this. I worked on that sear for hours on several different days over a period of a year. But I could not eliminate the creep. The jig did a great job of producing accurate sear surfaces, and I checked and re-checked the rest of the trigger mechanism for binding, but the creep remained.

Today I decided to go at it once more. This time I took a suggestion I heard about, and mounted the sear and trigger on the outside of the gun, using proper size drill bits in place of the normal pins. It was immediately obvious that the primary sear angle I was using did not match the trigger hooks, which was causing extra friction. I went back to the sear jig, backed out the adjusting screw a couple turns, hit the sear with the stone a few times, and looked at the sear/trigger fit again.

It was a MUCH better match. I finished cutting the primary angle, polished the face and smoothed the edges, and reassembled the gun. SUCCESS. No creep whatsoever. It breaks like the proverbial piece of glass! The trigger weight is still stock, I'd guess maybe 5 lbs, but when there's no creep that really doesn't bother me. I like a decent safety margin anyway.

I guess perhaps S&W trigger hooks engage at a slightly different angle than standard Colts. If only I had realized that sooner......[crying]
 
I got an S&W1911 a couple years ago. It came with a loose fitting trigger that rattled etc. That was easy enough to fix - bought a Greider oversize trigger from Brownells and it fit perfectly.

However there was still creep in the trigger, so I did some reading and bought an Ed Brown sear jig (also from Brownells). It's pretty easy to use, not too expensive ($40) and is adjustable for angle of "cut". I decided to use it at the preset primary angle since I had no experience at this. I worked on that sear for hours on several different days over a period of a year. But I could not eliminate the creep. The jig did a great job of producing accurate sear surfaces, and I checked and re-checked the rest of the trigger mechanism for binding, but the creep remained.

Today I decided to go at it once more. This time I took a suggestion I heard about, and mounted the sear and trigger on the outside of the gun, using proper size drill bits in place of the normal pins. It was immediately obvious that the primary sear angle I was using did not match the trigger hooks, which was causing extra friction. I went back to the sear jig, backed out the adjusting screw a couple turns, hit the sear with the stone a few times, and looked at the sear/trigger fit again.

It was a MUCH better match. I finished cutting the primary angle, polished the face and smoothed the edges, and reassembled the gun. SUCCESS. No creep whatsoever. It breaks like the proverbial piece of glass! The trigger weight is still stock, I'd guess maybe 5 lbs, but when there's no creep that really doesn't bother me. I like a decent safety margin anyway.

I guess perhaps S&W trigger hooks engage at a slightly different angle than standard Colts. If only I had realized that sooner......[crying]

Many sear jig MFRs suggest that you keep a stock Colt sear on hand to set the proper angle. Place the Colt sear in the jig with a coating on the sear nose (magic marker will do) and adjust the jig until a stone removes the coating from the sear evenly.
 
Sounds like a good idea, but in my case I'd need to use an S&W sear because as I said a Colt sear apparently requires a different angle than an S&W sear.
 
Sounds like a good idea, but in my case I'd need to use an S&W sear because as I said a Colt sear apparently requires a different angle than an S&W sear.

The problem is that you are assuming that the jig was properly set up for a Colt sear, perhaps it wasn't properly adjusted by the MFR. There are other jigs on the market that allow you to set the angle of the cut based on hammer/sear relationship. Check with Marvel, they have a web site.
 
There is only one 1911 sear. Yes Colt did make a few small mods, but nothing that would make it different to cut than any other sear. The Ed Brown jig has an adjustment screw to change the relief cut angle- it is a small set screw inside the cutout the sear legs fit in. Unless you are target shooting you want to take care not to cut much of a relief cut at all.

There are better jigs on the market- like the Marvel which will cut both the hammer and sear. I use the second "Al" Marvel jig not to be confused with "Bob" Marvel's jig.

In any case a good set of sear/hammer pins should be used to insure a "square" engagement. A negative engagement will result in hammer follow or worse case an AD.

Greg
 
There is only one 1911 sear. Yes Colt did make a few small mods, but nothing that would make it different to cut than any other sear. The Ed Brown jig has an adjustment screw to change the relief cut angle- it is a small set screw inside the cutout the sear legs fit in. Unless you are target shooting you want to take care not to cut much of a relief cut at all. There are better jigs on the market- like the Marvel which will cut both the hammer and sear. I use the second "Al" Marvel jig not to be confused with "Bob" Marvel's jig. In any case a good set of sear/hammer pins should be used to insure a "square" engagement. A negative engagement will result in hammer follow or worse case an AD. Greg
Greg, thanks for chiming in here. The Ed Brown jig you describe sounds like the same one I have. The instructions that come with it say that the set screw comes pre-adjusted to provide a proper angle for most 1911's, but that people can deviate from that setting as they desire. As I described, I chose to stick with the factory setting initially. I'm a bit confused by you calling that setting the "relief angle". Isn't is defining the primary angle, i.e. the main surface that the trigger hooks engage? I thought the relief angle was the secondary angle that one cuts to make it easier for the sear to slip out of the hooks once it starts to go (typically up to 45 degrees with respect to the primary angle). I'm sure it's just a terminology thing......

As far as whether Colt and S&W sears are different, all I can say is the factory setting of that jig produced a sear surface that was way off - it did not meet the trigger hooks squarely. The back edge of the sear surface was digging into the trigger hooks, so there was only a small area of the sear surface touching the hooks, hence producing excessive friction and creep. Once I realized that and adjusted the set screw on the jig, I could clearly see that the sear now mated with the hooks as it should (squarely), increasing the area of their interaction and reducing the friction. Perhaps it's just the positioning of the sear and trigger pins in S&W guns that's slightly different, not the sears themselves. Or maybe I just received a jig with an intitial setting that was improperly adjusted from the factory.
 
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There is only one 1911 sear. Yes Colt did make a few small mods, but nothing that would make it different to cut than any other sear. The Ed Brown jig has an adjustment screw to change the relief cut angle- it is a small set screw inside the cutout the sear legs fit in. Unless you are target shooting you want to take care not to cut much of a relief cut at all.

There are better jigs on the market- like the Marvel which will cut both the hammer and sear. I use the second "Al" Marvel jig not to be confused with "Bob" Marvel's jig.

In any case a good set of sear/hammer pins should be used to insure a "square" engagement. A negative engagement will result in hammer follow or worse case an AD.

Greg

What's the difference between a "Bob Marvel" jig and an "Al Marvel" jig? I have a couple of Marvel jigs that I aam delighted with, but don't know which type they are.
 
Al Marvel jigs are stamped with his Md phone # on them. They also have the roller bearing for the stones to slide on. Al makes a number of jigs for the trade.

I believe the Brown jig does both cuts if you turn the sear over. It's been a while since I used one.

Yes the placement of the sear/hammer pin holes in the frame and also the length of the hammer hooks can change the geometry of the hammer to sear mating. That is the primary reason for the test pins.
 
Al Marvel jigs are stamped with his Md phone # on them. They also have the roller bearing for the stones to slide on. Al makes a number of jigs for the trade.

I believe the Brown jig does both cuts if you turn the sear over. It's been a while since I used one.

Yes the placement of the sear/hammer pin holes in the frame and also the length of the hammer hooks can change the geometry of the hammer to sear mating. That is the primary reason for the test pins.

My Marvel sear jig has rollers for the stone to glide on and a phone number, but it is an 800 number. Anyway it works like a charm.
 
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