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FFL's, LEO's, - need some humble opinions

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Well to start off, I finally decided to try to get the dealer FFL, my records spotless and I believe I can get a storefront in Lynn, Ma which I'll do by appointment only since I don't plan on making enough from the FFL to have it be my job.
What I'd like to know is whether people would be interested in one of a few possible ways this could be handled -

1) a 'Membership' that allows ammo to be purchased for our cost +shipping, hazmat etc with either a flat or % fee that goes back into the 'store' for Safes and maybe even reloading hardware in the future. And I'm talking like $1-10 or whatever, just something to put onto the books for forms sake.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a place you go go to use equipment that you don't have to store/maintain/buy. I' know of a woodworking workshop that does the same type of thing, you pay a fee to use their tools for your projects.

2) Simplified version of number 1, I'll charge a fee for orders on a step scale $1 for orders of $20 or less, $10 on orders of $100 or more, $20 on $1000+, just so I can keep the license when the girls come knocking on the door and want to see if I'm actually a business. The numbers are only an example, I'm trying to be able to allow everyone that wants to, to be able to shoot for as cheaply as they can.

Example - If people want to set up a Wish list, and tell me they want 1000 rounds of .308 ammo, but only when we have an order of 5000 rounds altogether, then we can do group buys to bring the price down and split the shipping.


I'm tired of seeing great deals on ammo in catalogs such as Sportsman's Guide and not being able to order it because no one wants to deal with Ma. I'd like to be able to make this work, but I am trying to get a handle on the amount of interest that I could generate to see if it's plausible.

As for handguns/rifles sales etc, same deal would likely apply, few bucks over cost to have it be a transaction. I don't have to make a killing on sales to be a legitimate shop.

***********************************

New topic -

Getting the Barrett 82A1m - .50cal 10round semi, for those not familiar with the rifle, I'm looking forward to using it and have been considering doing a couple of things.

1) inviting the local LEOs to go shooting with me, I'm don't know any of the cops in Randolph but figure this might give some of them an opportunity to try out a hard target rifle. It might engender some goodwill on the plus side so when I go to renew my LTC in a few years it won't be such a trial.

2) Actually filling out one of those little 'I have these gun' cards and filing it with the Sergeant in charge. My basic belief is that it's no ones business what I buy or what I have. I already jumped through their hoops to get the license and what I do with it after is my business.

I guess the gist is, Bring attention to myself and make nice or just shoot with my fiends and let sleeping dogs lie

~Evan
 
I like the tool use like the woodworking shop idea (I have seen similar also) but you have to be really careful with reloading stuff insurance wise. I'd get legal advice before taking on that responsibility if someone got injured because of a round they loaded on one of your machines. (Just a fact of life in our litigenous society).

The group buy thing would be great!

Sounds like your talking a Gun Co-op type of business, wouldn't the liberals love that!!!!

As long as you can make your overhead for the realestate/insurance/fees/required computer and internet access and you don't mind not getting rich sounds like it could well be a successful venture. I think that's what alot of people did back before the change of rules for FFL's, now it's a bit cost prohibitive. Good luck!
 
do a search

There was a discussion on this just a short whlie ago.

The storefront is a requirement, and so are posted hours,
from what i've read. I would look into the by appt part of
your plan. Overall your idea sound great.

JimB
 
store front and hrs

My father is and his business partners own a rather large Commercial property with a number of businesses in it, I'm fairly confident I could use their Offices there or even 'rent' a room from them to throw in a safe or 2 as needed for locking stuff up. So store front angle might be covered (zoning permitted, still would have to check on the building zoning for firearms).

Hours, I don't believe there is a number of minimum hours that the building has to be opened, so I could post as open from 6-8am on Saturdays and be covered as far as I understand. GO in do some paperwork, and be home in time for breakfast. Rest of the sales by appointment only.

This is obviously a work in progress, but as long as I could cover my costs for the license itself, I really couldn't care about making anything above that. And really the co-op thing isn't a bad idea if you have enough people to offest the cost of the FFL then you're just really paying for the covenience of getting the things you want without the markup each time.

I buy my ammo bulk now from gun shows, picked up 2000 rounds of .308 last year, I'm a bit more than 1/2 way through it now, but would rather be able to order it and have it shipped to me than drive to springfield and pay admission/gas/food/ just for the ability to continue shooting.

Plus if places like Bass Pro aren't going to carry the components I need then I either have to pay someone else for their 'work' or do some paperwork so I can get it directly.

~Evan
 
Evan, I think you might want to run this past a good firearms attorney first. There are two who post frequently on this board (Cross-X and Scrivener), and there are others who advertise in the Outdoor Message (Jesse Cohen, Karen MacNutt). In this state with it's blatantly anti-gun atmosphere, good legal representation is a MUST.

Good luck in your endeavor!
 
I think you'd have a much better chance if you're open 3-4 days a week for a few hours, perhaps in the evening.
 
another two cents

I think you really need to ask yourself how many 'free' hours you want to put into this. It could end up being a lot more than you think.

When I was a kid, up until the early 1970's there was a true co-op grocery store in my town and my parents were members. What they did was divide up the profit at the end of the year. The more groceries you bought they more you got back. If you were not a member you could save all your receipts and also get something back at year end. They also threw themselves a little party.

Might be a better model as you need some cash flow to keep the doors open.

And last but not least can you compete with someone like Four Seasons, Dick's, Walmart, etc? They may suck up all the easy (common caliber) sales. How much 50 cal is even consumed in MA?

Bill
 
As long as your "business" shows a profit on the tax returns and make enough to keep your head afloat then the ATF should be easy to keep off your back...along with a low inventory to keep the books simple & easy.
 
think i must have been unclear a bit

I don't want to open a full time gun store, unless we have an order arriving or someone picking up part of an order, I have no plans on sitting there waiting for customers to walk in. Places like Walmart , Four Seasons, sell (from what I've seen) single boxes of ammo for fairly high prices, and you get no discount for buying multiple boxes, I'd rather not pay 17.99 for 20 rounds of 22-250 ammo when I could buy 500rounds for cents less a round.
What's to stop the few Walmart stores from finally buckling under pressure and stopping ammunition/rifle sales as many of them have? I'm tired of depending on stores to stay around long enough to even begin creating a relationship with them.
Bad enough Ma has the stupid laws it has as they slowly ban everything they can one caliber at a time. If I can get an FFL, it will be 1) easier to keep now than to get one in the future most likely) 2) transferable when I move out of this state which is still the longer term plan.

The only reason I'd even charge anything for the service of ordering something is that it's a requirement to 'be in business' to maintain the license. If I can get enough people that agree that it's a good thing to be able to get whatever you'd like, then it would help me pay for the license fee if they chip in for a 'membership' or I'd have to charge just enough to make up some of what I'd have to maintain the FFL.
 
My father is and his business partners own a rather large Commercial property with a number of businesses in it, I'm fairly confident I could use their Offices there or even 'rent' a room from them to throw in a safe or 2 as needed for locking stuff up. So store front angle might be covered (zoning permitted, still would have to check on the building zoning for firearms).

~Evan

Talk to your local fire marshal about this too. The Gander Mountain I work at part time can't get a license to keep powder of any kind on the premises because they claim the fire code will not permit it in any building with more than one business in it.

Around here (NY), only gun stores in their own separate building can sell black powder, pyrodex, reloading smokeless, etc.

Regards
John
 
don't forget the IRS

The only reason I'd even charge anything for the service of ordering something is that it's a requirement to 'be in business' to maintain the license.

The IRS also has issues with the profitability of a business. Something like if you are not profitable 1 out of every 3 or 4 years (you need an accountant in addition to an attorney) you are therefore not a business but a hobby and will get back-audited and business expenses may be invalidated.

I'm not explaining that exactly right but you can get the idea.

I like the idea, just suggest you do this with both eyers wide open.

Bill
 
I'd love it...learn to reload without the expense of the equipment! Great place to meet others with similar interests. My only concern would be the liability for the "members". If someone were injured or killed by a reload made there or improper storage of powder etc, what liability would the "members" have if any? Look at the big dig collapse (it appears the wrong company just settled..they made the product, someone else used it incorrectly...but that should have been for a judge to decide) lots of frivilant law suits out there where everyone and anyone can be sued.

A good lawyer and a good accountant help a good idea become a great success.
 
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