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FFL selling a non-compliant handgun

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DGV1860

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Can anyone here relate a incident of a Gunshop in Massachusetts selling a non-compliant handgun? A criminal summons, arrest,fine, jail time, anything? A solid example please.
 
As far as I understand it it is not a criminal thing. The compliant thing has to do with the comsumer protection act not an actual law. So basically and FFL can get harrased by the AG for selling "Dangerous Guns" There are two lists we are dealing with here. Lemme look some stuff up and add more info.

Ok here is the approved firearms roster. http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/Approved%20Firearms%20Roster%2004-2009.pdf This is a list of guns approved for sale is Mass. As you will notice there are quite a few guns on this list that we can't buy. The below paragraph explains that the sale of handguns is further regulated by the AG's Regulations and those are the ones that are unsafe product type guidelines.

Massachusetts licensed firearms dealers should note that the transfers of handguns are also subject to the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations, 940 CMR 16.00, et seq. Firearms on this Approved Firearms Roster do not necessarily comply with the requirements of the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations. Information about those regulations, as well as the Enforcement Notice may be obtained from the Office of the Attorney General and may be accessed on the website of the Attorney General (www.ago.state.ma.us).
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Gooman24 said:
As far as I understand it it is not a criminal thing. The compliant thing has to do with the comsumer protection act not an actual law. So basically and FFL can get harrased by the AG for selling "Dangerous Guns" There are two lists we are dealing with here. Lemme look some stuff up and add more info.
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if they are selling off list guns, it most certainly is a criminal thing.

non ag compliance is different
 
When Bass Pro Shops in Foxboro first opened, they were selling brand new glocks to civilians and they sold MANY of them. The AG caught wind of it and threatened to fine $5,000.00 per gun if they were not recovered by Bass Pro Shops. It was not up to the consumer to return the gun as it was legally sold to them through an FFL (it is the FFL's responsibility to know what they can and cannot sell). I do not know if they actually followed through with any of the threats
 
hollewud7 said:
if they are selling off list guns, it most certainly is a criminal thing.

non ag compliance is different
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Yeah thats what I was trying to say but had to look up a few things before I could edit my post to include the rest of the info.
 
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billyd1111 said:
When Bass Pro Shops in Foxboro first opened, they were selling brand new glocks to civilians and they sold MANY of them. The AG caught wind of it and threatened to fine $5,000.00 per gun if they were not recovered by Bass Pro Shops. It was not up to the consumer to return the gun as it was legally sold to them through an FFL (it is the FFL's responsibility to know what they can and cannot sell). I do not know if they actually followed through with any of the threats
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that case wasnt criminal, as the glocks are on the list. The threat of fines was not followed through IIRC. Bass Pro got almost all if not all of the guns back. I think Len knows the details of that.
 
Depends on the rules being broken.

EOPS is criminal, IIRC, AGs regs is civil.

FWIW I've only ever heard of dealers getting harassed by the AGs office. Usually the AG creates a "comply with my silly demands and we won't assess civil fines" extortion racket
type of deal with the dealer, they "comply" and then roll over and life goes on.

-Mike
 
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Asking the question a different way... assuming a person has an LTC-A, and an FFL has done a transfer or an individual has done a FTF on a FA10, are there any revolvers or semi-auto pistols that are illegal to own in MA?

We know that high-cap mags must be preban. But assuming a proper transfer, are all revolvers and semi-auto pistols legal to own in MA?

Whaddya think?

Thanks,

Rich
 
richc said:
Asking the question a different way... assuming a person has an LTC-A, and an FFL has done a transfer or an individual has done a FTF on a FA10, are there any revolvers or semi-auto pistols that are illegal to own in MA?

We know that high-cap mags must be preban. But assuming a proper transfer, are all revolvers and semi-auto pistols legal to own in MA?

Whaddya think?

Thanks,

Rich
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generally, yes(not including ar pistols, etc)
 
richc said:
Asking the question a different way... assuming a person has an LTC-A, and an FFL has done a transfer or an individual has done a FTF on a FA10, are there any revolvers or semi-auto pistols that are illegal to own in MA?

We know that high-cap mags must be preban. But assuming a proper transfer, are all revolvers and semi-auto pistols legal to own in MA?

Whaddya think?

Thanks,

Rich
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Depends. An hypothetical scenario may net better results.
 
richc said:
Asking the question a different way... assuming a person has an LTC-A, and an FFL has done a transfer or an individual has done a FTF on a FA10, are there any revolvers or semi-auto pistols that are illegal to own in MA?

We know that high-cap mags must be preban. But assuming a proper transfer, are all revolvers and semi-auto pistols legal to own in MA?

Whaddya think?

Thanks,

Rich
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Excluding the few "pistols" banned by the AWB, yes.

-Mike
 
glide said:
Depends. An hypothetical scenario may net better results.
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There really is no hypothetical... I was just curious. There are items that are approved on certain lists. But what if something is not on a list... can it still be legally owned in MA if properly transferred.

Just trying to make sense of all these garbage rules, regs and laws. It is worse than the freaking tax code!

Thank you all for your responses.

Cheers,

Rich
 
DGV1860 said:
Can anyone here relate a incident of a Gunshop in Massachusetts selling a non-compliant handgun? A criminal summons, arrest,fine, jail time, anything? A solid example please.
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I assume you are talking about non-compliant but on the EOPS list of approved handguns?

I have never heard of any consequences of doing this. Both from the FFL side as well as the buyer.

Also as far as I know there is no wrong doing on the buyer's behalf.


billyd1111 said:
When Bass Pro Shops in Foxboro first opened, they were selling brand new glocks to civilians and they sold MANY of them. The AG caught wind of it and threatened to fine $5,000.00 per gun if they were not recovered by Bass Pro Shops. It was not up to the consumer to return the gun as it was legally sold to them through an FFL (it is the FFL's responsibility to know what they can and cannot sell). I do not know if they actually followed through with any of the threats
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I believe it was only 6 Glocks and several people agreed to return them. I don't know why. Pretty stupid of them. They did nothing wrong.
 
Because I think the AG is full of shit. I dont think they will do a thing if a FFL sells a non-compliant gun. Cops buy and sell at inflated prices every day by the hundreds. Granted, these are FTF personal transfers. Look at this site. Lots of non-compliant guns sold here for 2x the cost. Glock, HK, and especially the thief who wants 1800 for a Fn 5.7 pistol. All of these guns are Law Enforcement purchases, but end up being sold at crazy prices.
 
DGV1860 said:
Because I think the AG is full of shit. I dont think they will do a thing if a FFL sells a non-compliant gun. Cops buy and sell at inflated prices every day by the hundreds. Granted, these are FTF personal transfers. Look at this site. Lots of non-compliant guns sold here for 2x the cost. Glock, HK, and especially the thief who wants 1800 for a Fn 5.7 pistol. All of these guns are Law Enforcement purchases, but end up being sold at crazy prices.
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really? Because a 5.7 is pretty much as hard to get for an LEO as anyone else. I would say more of these guns are either moved into the state or bought through FFL's who dont give a hoot, than sold by LEO's
 
hollewud7 said:
that case wasnt criminal, as the glocks are on the list. The threat of fines was not followed through IIRC. Bass Pro got almost all if not all of the guns back. I think Len knows the details of that.
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True although I have no knowledge if any fines were assessed or paid, only that the RAT reported them for selling Glocks and the AG demanded that they retrieve all sold Glocks. That is all that BP attempted to do.

bambame2 said:
Ted is that you.
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[rofl] [laugh]
 
blood hound said:
just remember...theyre regulations...not laws
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Technically speaking the EOPS stuff -is- law. AG's crap is regulation. The dealer can be criminally prosecuted in the former, but not the latter, just fined into oblivion,
maybe.

Either scenario isn't worth getting worked up about, though. It's the dealer's problem, not yours.

-Mike
 
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