FFL Not Communicating

[Picton]

I've done A LOT of online purchases, but all of them were C&R, so no need for an LGS. All I know of Bud's is what I've read on NES, and it's always seemed like it's very possible to have a good experience.

Again, the OP is new. There's nothing wrong with that; I had a lot of gun-buying experience already before I even moved to MA, so I had a little bit of savvy. That kind of experience needs to start somewhere, and for a new shooter trying to buy a gun during a pandemic, I don't think the OP acted unreasonably here.

I hope it works out.

 

[greencobra]

ok, no one asked for my opinion....you'll get it anyway. these situations can be eliminated by using a lgs. you have a problem, your solution is usually a 10-15 minute ride away. and if you're a really good customer and have you're face known, my experience has been you get treated even better than a one off walk in they'll never see again.

my strategy is, when i want a gun from one of these mail order places (not often) is to walk into my go to place, tell them what i want and where i saw it, and have my shop contact them, do the deal...ffl etc and i sit back and wait. no hand wringing and fretting. i've never wanted to start a social media campaign to shut the shop down and best of all....no butt hurt. works for me.

 

[45collector]

I've done A LOT of online purchases, but all of them were C&R, so no need for an LGS.

Same here. Lots of C&R guns I got from Gunboards, Gunbroker, other sellers. Never had any issues. Every newbie has to get their feet wet somewhere, like you said. It's the same with FTF transfers as a MA resident; you may be hesitant to meet a complete stranger at a random meeting place. Eventually it's no different than meeting someone to buy a couch or something.

 

[teamRR]

I never have any trouble with Buds. Everything is processed and shipped fast, prices are generally competitive, and the online system is smooth. They give members 2 free 90 day layaways at a time, which is a nice option if a popular item pops into stock but isn't quite in the budget or you like to buy a few guns at once and are putting an order together for later. On a lot of things you can even pick the serial number you want.

My only recent rub was during the wuflu panic I ordered a pistol that they canceled the order on the next day due to stocking error, then it came into stock shortly after and I found layaway was suspended (which in my eyes is part of the membership so shouldn't have been suspended for members)... I couldn't get them to make an exception based on my canceled order either.

Maybe its sad but generally I really like Buds, my FFL even reccomends them.

 

[BigAl23]

ok, no one asked for my opinion....you'll get it anyway. these situations can be eliminated by using a lgs. you have a problem, your solution is usually a 10-15 minute ride away. and if you're a really good customer and have you're face known, my experience has been you get treated even better than a one off walk in they'll never see again.

my strategy is, when i want a gun from one of these mail order places (not often) is to walk into my go to place, tell them what i want and where i saw it, and have my shop contact them, do the deal...ffl etc and i sit back and wait. no hand wringing and fretting. i've never wanted to start a social media campaign to shut the shop down and best of all....no butt hurt. works for me.

I'm retired and on a very fixed income. I have 2 LGSs' within 10 minutes. One has much better prices (quite a bit better) so why would I go to the other? I can't afford to give my money away. So, if my reasonable priced dealer doesn't have it, I go to Gunbroker.

 

[greencobra]

So, if my reasonable priced dealer doesn't have it, I go to Gunbroker.

no chance of letting the lgs order it for you? and i'm on a fixed income too, i can't help if if i have "loyalties." it's the way i was brought up. whatever works, i don't condemn people for trying to save a dollar.

 

[BigAl23]

no chance of letting the lgs order it for you? and i'm on a fixed income too, i can't help if if i have "loyalties." it's the way i was brought up. whatever works, i don't condemn people for trying to save a dollar.

Going up in the 60's, I was always loyal but sometimes people take advantage of loyalty.

 

[drgrant]

no chance of letting the lgs order it for you? and i'm on a fixed income too, i can't help if if i have "loyalties." it's the way i was brought up. whatever works, i don't condemn people for trying to save a dollar.

Some dealers can't get a given item depending on the Distributors that they are linked up with. My dealer honestly doesn't give a shit if I order something from him or inbound it but that's . probably because I end up buying 99% of the stuff from him anyways, because he can give me a price that's pretty close. Only mega flints are going to whine about the last 100 bucks or less. And they forget the dealer won't charge them shipping, either, so the difference is usually less than what they think it is.

 

[CrackPot]

Just remember that even the big online stores don't necessarily have what you are buying in physical stock. All the good distributors have real-time online stocking information. There are services you can use that aggregate this data so that you easily have all your distributors stock as "in stock" for your shop. You then allow your customer to buy from you and you drop ship from your distributor to their FFL. Shipping is free when you do high enough volume with most distributors. You can even map distributor to different shipping costs on your website. Sometimes Buds offers free shipping and sometimes they charge. It is not random. It depends on where the inventory is (their shop, good distributor, bad distributor)

I get transfers all the time from big online shops and over 50% of them come drop shipped from distributors that I have accounts with. I could have just ordered the same gun from the same distributor for the customer.

Now we do have a disadvantage in MA because of the 6.25% sales tax we must collect. The online stores don't collect sales tax. On cheap guns this falls out in the wash, but on large ticket items it matters. Say you have a $400 dealer cost gun. Buds will sell for $420-$435 if there is no MAP controlling advertised price. Shipped for free. FFL transfer cost $25. So say it is $400 + $35 buds profit plus $25 transfer for $460.

The MA dealer buys it from the distributor, adds $35 profit and then tax and you get to $462.18. That is essentially the same and works. A $1000 gun the $62.50 in tax overwhelms the $25 transfer fee and the online is a "better" deal. The LGS cant price match because they would have negative profit. Same cost of goods, just sales tax getting in the way.

I find I can price match most online purchases for sub $600 guns and can't on more expensive.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

ok, no one asked for my opinion

You got that right.

I could pick apart everything else you said in that post, sentence by sentence. Buyers create a demand. Sellers seek to satisfy that demand to achieve a profit. Sometimes, buyers can find what they want locally. Sometimes, they can't. There's no need to harangue people because they don't shop where you do. Nor is there a need to harangue people for not finding the best deal when a local shop has the same thing but at a higher price.

You've said your piece, the guy's going to get his guns, thread's pretty much over once gets the guns in his hands.

 

[teamRR]

For me, although of course I prefer to pay less, anything 15% or less, say up to $150, is just a margin of error on actual guns. Unfortunately due to varying availability and the whole FFL thing, the process is the part that stings me.

Just happens to be a smoother process to order online and pay a transfer fee, eliminates the additional hassle of calling an FFL, trying to clarify the model I want, checking price and availability, waiting for them to get it. Easier to do my own procurement and the FFL is the delivery depot.

On a fishing reel or gun part I can and do go full skin flint.

 

[greencobra]

probably because I end up buying 99% of the stuff from him anyways, because he can give me a price that's pretty close.

right...what i mean. it's basically a loyalty discount.

 

[greencobra]

You've said your piece, the guy's going to get his guns, thread's pretty much over once gets the guns in his hands.

settle down lad....

 

[greencobra]

sometimes people take advantage of loyalty.

yes sir, very true.

 

[looser38]

Call the ATF...maybe?

0 f**ks will be given by them.

 

[drgrant]

Just happens to be a smoother process to order online and pay a transfer fee, eliminates the additional hassle of calling an FFL, trying to clarify the model I want, checking price and availability, waiting for them to get it. Easier to do my own procurement and the FFL is the delivery depot.

Theres this neat little thing called a SKU. With limited exceptions, most manufacturers have a SKU # for the configruation you want. You tell them what SKU you want and they get it. [rofl[ If your dealer can't figure this out, or gets dramatic over it, you need a different dealer.

Also calling? I call mine but more often than not I'll email or send them a msg/txt, and if I don't get a response within a day or so I follow up with a
call, then the info is there in front of them. More often than not ill get a msg back telling me when approximately its going to come in, etc, if they didn't
already have one.

Also when I get a dealer to get me a gun other than perhaps a nominal deposit, I don't have to front money for it while I wait.

If it gets damaged or lost in shipping, not my problem. Dealer takes care of that bullshit, too.

If I open the box and the gun is visibly shitty or f***ed up, Dealer takes care of that shit too, and I don't have to dick with orchestrating an RMA with a
remote.

These last 2 things aren't very common, but when they do happen, they are a pain in the ballsack. I'd rather pay someone else to deal with that bullshit.

The only time I won't use a dealer is if they can't get the item at a reasonable price (like they're $150 over or their distributor is rapey) or if they can't get it
at all.

-Mike

 

[one-eyed Jack]

My FFL son in NH had a lot of his customers order from Bud's till a lot, about 24 guns transferred to a NH individual ended up in Lexington, Mass with the "Banana peel bandit". Bud's banned him because they were tired of responding to the ATF trace requests. Lisa from the Boston ATF office took a ride to see Lance and spent a good amount of time making copies of all the 4473s and drinking iced coffee, Lisa's favorite. Lisa later asked me how Lance knew that she liked iced coffee, but she knew how he knew. Fun and games. Jack.

 

[Broc]

A quick call to the local PD isn’t necessarily a bad idea just to see what they may know. What I really don’t want to do, though, is impact anyone’s business. I do hope the FFL is OK health wise and it’s just some other extenuating circumstance.

Patience is likely my best path forward.

A call to the PD, AG or any other govt agency is a huge mistake.

You should have checked with the FFL when they would be open.

 

[Broc]

For me, although of course I prefer to pay less, anything 15% or less, say up to $150, is just a margin of error on actual guns. Unfortunately due to varying availability and the whole FFL thing, the process is the part that stings me.

Just happens to be a smoother process to order online and pay a transfer fee, eliminates the additional hassle of calling an FFL, trying to clarify the model I want, checking price and availability, waiting for them to get it. Easier to do my own procurement and the FFL is the delivery depot.

On a fishing reel or gun part I can and do go full skin flint.

Dont forget not paying taxes.

I ordered a revolver I found online for $999. The cheapest any store in MA could get it was $1200 + Tax.

 

[Camhabib]

Out of curiosity, whats the average markup on a firearm (in percent of MSRP) and does it cost the LGS anything to do the transfer?

 

[drgrant]

Out of curiosity, whats the average markup on a firearm (in percent of MSRP)

Markup is going to be all over depending on the gun, the dealer, and their distribution . I've seen some dealers that were not far from the puds price and others who were $50-100 more than their local competitors....

and does it cost the LGS anything to do the transfer?

Lol it costs the LGS power, taxes, salary for employees, time wasted processing shit, etc. There's always a cost. Obviously a dude going off proverbial kitchen table is cheaper, but there are very, very few of these left in mass.

 

[Broc]

Out of curiosity, whats the average markup on a firearm (in percent of MSRP) and does it cost the LGS anything to do the transfer?

I dont know about the markup.

Their only cost is about 10minutes of work. Maybe less if they have a computer set up where you do everything and send it. The last revolver I purchased, I was in and out in 15min. Out of the 15min, most of the time was shooting the sh*t with the guys and filling the form in the computer.

Someone can argue those 10min they are not helping someone else, and that is true. But, what about when they are empty? ... if you show up on Saturday at 11:30 to a place like 4seasons to do a transfer, you are a little bit of a d*ck. Lol. But also, the store can choose to not do transfers.

 

[Camhabib]

Markup is going to be all over depending on the gun, the dealer, and their distribution . I've seen some dealers that were not far from the puds price and others who were $50-100 more than their local competitors....


Lol it costs the LGS power, taxes, salary for employees, time wasted processing shit, etc. There's always a cost. Obviously a dude going off proverbial kitchen table is cheaper, but there are very, very few of these left in mass.

I ask because I could imagine a scenario where someone taking up an hour or two of an employees time to shop for a pistol that they only make $50 on is less profitable than having someone come in and pay $30 to submit 10 minutes worth of paperwork. Not advocating for purchasing online, though I will say from a strictly cost perspective, the more expensive the item, the more difficult it seems to be to justify purchasing when you take into account markup, taxes, etc.

 

[teamRR]

drgrant - yes absolutely use the model number and you can get burnt a few ways, which is easier to resolve (or resolves without you even knowing) via LGS..

As far as the mention of taxes, what taxes? .. NH..

As far as FFL profit, the place I go would just assume if he doesn't have it in stock you ship it in and pay the $25; he will absolutely hunt something you want down but says the $25 is as good of a model. So margins are not high. Now I never buy one gun, so usually they make more like $100 off me - likely he has a whole bunch of other folks doing the same and its keeping the lights on.

 

[drgrant]

I ask because I could imagine a scenario where someone taking up an hour or two of an employees time to shop for a pistol that they only make $50 on is less profitable than having someone come in and pay $30 to submit 10 minutes worth of paperwork. Not advocating for purchasing online, though I will say from a strictly cost perspective, the more expensive the item, the more difficult it seems to be to justify purchasing when you take into account markup, taxes, etc.

With the exception of some newbies, people buying lots of stuff, etc, most of the time a sales guy in a shop is going to "land the plane" in like 10-20 minutes or less, unless the dude is one of the regulars that doesn't really need much assistance, gets a wild hair and buys something, etc. Those take even less time because they know what they want. You throw a 4473 at them and they go to town. I've generally found that, from prior experience behind the counter, with SOME exceptions, if they waste more than 20 minutes of your time presale, they're usually tire kickers
and you can tell they're just wasting your time, admittedly, you still have to be nice to these folks to some degree because they might actually come back and buy something. It is funny though, after awhile you can figure out within the first like 5 minutes if the person is going to start kicking tires or not. Especially if it's their first time in your shop. The ideal scenario on a gun shop sale for the shop is the person buys a gun, and then buys an assortment of other crap to go along with it.... all the other stuff, more money can be made there, and the items are less price sensitive. For example if you sell a bore brush for $3 that cost you 50 cents or a dollar, most people won't give a shit, they want it now and they are willing to pay the 3 bucks for it. You sell the gun, a couple mags, some cleaning stuff, maybe a mass produced holster but enough for them to get by. Now you have a situation where that total of 20-30 minutes you spent on the
customer turns into $100 profit, or more. Someone will go "well that seems like good money" but everyone forgets the cost of just having a store somewhere, rent, utilities, any salaries, garbage pickup, all that shit. Plus the fact that the industry goes through wide swinging droughts. The only guys that can survive that stuff are either small enough as to not be overexposed
on overhead, or are large enough that one offs will keep the lights on during drought periods or they have enough banked to float over the drought periods. Or they have a store that is
full retard volume enough that they still have "some" business during a recession when everyone else has almost nothing.

 

[Camhabib]

With the exception of some newbies, people buying lots of stuff, etc, most of the time a sales guy in a shop is going to "land the plane" in like 10-20 minutes or less, unless the dude is one of the regulars that doesn't really need much assistance, gets a wild hair and buys something, etc. Those take even less time because they know what they want. You throw a 4473 at them and they go to town. I've generally found that, from prior experience behind the counter, with SOME exceptions, if they waste more than 20 minutes of your time presale, they're usually tire kickers
and you can tell they're just wasting your time, admittedly, you still have to be nice to these folks to some degree because they might actually come back and buy something. It is funny though, after awhile you can figure out within the first like 5 minutes if the person is going to start kicking tires or not. Especially if it's their first time in your shop. The ideal scenario on a gun shop sale for the shop is the person buys a gun, and then buys an assortment of other crap to go along with it.... all the other stuff, more money can be made there, and the items are less price sensitive. For example if you sell a bore brush for $3 that cost you 50 cents or a dollar, most people won't give a shit, they want it now and they are willing to pay the 3 bucks for it. You sell the gun, a couple mags, some cleaning stuff, maybe a mass produced holster but enough for them to get by. Now you have a situation where that total of 20-30 minutes you spent on the
customer turns into $100 profit, or more. Someone will go "well that seems like good money" but everyone forgets the cost of just having a store somewhere, rent, utilities, any salaries, garbage pickup, all that shit. Plus the fact that the industry goes through wide swinging droughts. The only guys that can survive that stuff are either small enough as to not be overexposed
on overhead, or are large enough that one offs will keep the lights on during drought periods or they have enough banked to float over the drought periods. Or they have a store that is
full retard volume enough that they still have "some" business during a recession when everyone else has almost nothing.

I’d be curious to know how many people who go in for just a transfer wind up picking up some accessories as well. Of course buying local is always preferred, just trying to look at it from both sides.

 

[LuvDog]

I've gone in to MFS for a transfer and ended up walking out with a case of ammo. When they have good stock, they run sales that compete with TSUSA and in the old day Walmart.

Also, according to tracking they got my transfer in at 3:00 on Monday and they called me within a few hours that it's ready for pickup. I just need to find time to get there to pick it up.

 

[RyanMc]

You should have checked with the FFL when they would be open.

I did check with the FFL. He confirmed.

 

[sschevy]

I was a preferred transfer spot for Buds once , then had to shut them off

damaged guns , no paperwork , constant phone calls to try and figure out why this gun came to my store and who it was for , then the final straw was whenhalf a dozen guns show up in one week with no paperwork , broken sights , missing mags , scratched receivers and now all my problem

chasing buds around For paperwork and call tags just wasn’t worth it anymore

 

[Camhabib]

I was a preferred transfer spot for Buds once , then had to shut them off

damaged guns , no paperwork , constant phone calls to try and figure out why this gun came to my store and who it was for , then the final straw was whenhalf a dozen guns show up in one week with no paperwork , broken sights , missing mags , scratched receivers and now all my problem

chasing buds around For paperwork and call tags just wasn’t worth it anymore

Was this something specific to Buds or would you see this with any online retailer?