FBI seizure of former Marine’s weapons under Oregon’s ‘red flag’ law

[Reptile]

Remarks against Antifa prompt FBI seizure of former Marine’s weapons under Oregon’s ‘red flag’ law: reports
A former Marine who said at a protest that he would “slaughter” Antifa members in self-defense, if attacked, recently had his five weapons confiscated by the FBI, according to reports.

The temporary seizure came through the use of Oregon’s “red flag” law, which allows law enforcement agencies and family members to seek a court order to have weapons taken away from an individual viewed as potentially violent. Such laws are often opposed by supporters of Second Amendment gun rights.

The former Marine, Shane Kohfield, 32, was not charged with any crime, but surrendered five guns, including an AR-15 rifle, according to Phil Lemman, Oregon’s acting deputy state court administrator, the Washington Examiner reported.

Remarks against Antifa prompt FBI seizure of former Marine’s weapons under Oregon’s ‘red flag’ law: reports

 

[apander]

So it begins!

 

[m_n_x]

If you replace "Antifa" with "Isis" do you still get flagged?

 

[beaker]

So let me get this straight, ANTIFA can organize planned assaults, riots, destruction of property, mass murder, intimidation, wear black masks and black clothing and they are OK, but a former US Marine who says he will defend himself, no, he is suspicious. Geebus H Kwist.

 

[headednorth]

Not agreeing with what happened to this guy but its beyond stupid to post threats online these days. I'm assuming it was under an account connected to his actual name. Antifa threatens people all the time and assaults people all the time. They do it anonymously while wearing masks and while being dressed the same. Who do you go after under those circumstances? Want to defend yourself against antifa? Fine do it but dont talk about it before hand especially in a place like OR.

 

[apander]

His other Big mistake was writing and sending a letter to Rep. Crenshall, which is why the FBI became involved.

 

[whacko]

Not agreeing with what happened to this guy but its beyond stupid to post threats online these days. I'm assuming it was under an account connected to his actual name. Antifa threatens people all the time and assaults people all the time. They do it anonymously while wearing masks and while being dressed the same. Who do you go after under those circumstances? Want to defend yourself against antifa? Fine do it but dont talk about it before hand especially in a place like OR.

He didn't post a threat imo. He stated he'd defend himself if attacked.

 

[apander]

He also said publicly that he had a "plan" to take them all out, which is a threat. Don't get me wrong, I think the Red Flag are BS, but you shouldn't post or telegraph your intentions, just respond if attacked.

 

[headednorth]

He didn't post a threat imo. He stated he'd defend himself if attacked.

Why even say that? Were they threatening him specifically or was this something he just said out of the blue? What did Tuco say back in the day?

We all know the left threatens people all the time and they put their hands on people all the time. If it happens in CA or OR or NY MA etc theyll get a pass. If you live in those places your 1A rights dont really exist anymore. If you choose to stay there, either live accordingly, or do something constructive to change that. Dont just invite the state into your life and accomplish nothing except for getting your stuff taken away.

Now antifa know exactly who he is, and probably where he lives and that he is most likely unarmed. What did he accomplish? If they assault him they will most likely not face any serious legal consequences. If he successfully defends himself he most likely will. So what's the plan here?

 

[308rifleman]

So let me get this straight, ANTIFA can organize planned assaults, riots, destruction of property, mass murder, intimidation, wear black masks and black clothing and they are OK, but a former US Marine who says he will defend himself, no, he is suspicious. Geebus H Kwist.

This former Marine had the same training that I had. At boot, more than 20 years ago, we learned about the concept known as OPSEC. This fellow must have sleeping during this lecture from his DI.

 

[Tinkermatic]

This former Marine had the same training that I had. At boot, more than 20 years ago, we learned about the concept known as OPSEC. This fellow must have sleeping during this lecture from his DI.

Critical Information is information our adversaries collect and need to do us harm.
Anything that can, will be misconstrued and used against you. *He said on the publicly viewable gun forum.* It’s unfortunate to think of it that way, but as someone I pretend to know says “keep your dick in a vise”
or is it “stick on the ice”?
I have a hankering to watch some old Red Green episodes now.
It’s late. Or is it early?

 

[allen-1]

If you haven't read the article, read it. It's got a lot of scary things in it, and it's a blueprint for ERPOs. From one perspective, he made a simple statement that he was going to defend himself. But that's not the perspective that law enforcement took. And he was "admitted" to a hospital - and "barred" from participating from protests.

So now he's had his firearms taken away, he's got a target pinned on his back, and there's a good chance he's not getting his firearms back.

As others have said - "opsec".

ERPOs are scary - particularly when states allow Law Enforcement, school officials, a pissed off ex and/or any other jackass to ask for them.


"If antifa gets to the point where they start killing us, I’m going to kill them next," Kohfield said outside of Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler's home. "I’d slaughter them, and I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antifa."

FBI's Joint Terrorism Task responded within days to seize all of Kohfield's weapons. Agents cited the red flag law to temporarily confiscate the guns, though Kohfield had not committed a crime.


The law allows law enforcement and family members to ask a judge to issue an "extreme risk protection order" that prohibits certain individuals from owning weapons. The statute's intent is to be proactive to inhibit violence before it can occur, and many states are enacting similar laws as a way to combat the increasing number of mass shootings in the U.S.

Phil Lemman, Oregon’s acting deputy state court administrator, said Kohfield gave up five guns, including an AR-15.

Kohfield was also admitted to a veterans hospital in Portland and spent 20 days there. Though he was not charged with a crime, he was barred from participating in the August protests organized by the far-right group Proud Boys in Portland that drew counterprotests from antifa.

Kohfield told the Oregonian he understood why he was taken to a local hospital and prohibited from attending the protests, but he insisted he did not plan to harm anyone.

 

[Penniepup1]

Silence is golden

 

[headednorth]

What he said may have been seen as harmless if it werent for the "I have a detailed plan" part. Like I said earlier, theyre in Portland so the authorities are basically turning a blind eye to leftist behavior and scrutinizing anything coming from the right. BoR does not exist for some people in some places.

 

[radioman]

I’d like to see a thread started about people that have had their
firearms returned to them after being red flagged? I personally have
never seen a news article saying that this has happened but I don’t
follow too closely. Has anyone heard of it happening? Is there a
cost incurred by the flagie?

 

[mothybee]

So let me get this straight, ANTIFA can organize planned assaults, riots, destruction of property, mass murder, intimidation, wear black masks and black clothing and they are OK, but a former US Marine who says he will defend himself, no, he is suspicious. Geebus H Kwist.

Now you've got it! Welcome to merica.

 

[BigTimber]

He also said publicly that he had a "plan" to take them all out, which is a threat. Don't get me wrong, I think the Red Flag are BS, but you shouldn't post or telegraph your intentions, just respond if attacked.

This, I feel for him but Are you trying to get red flagged? He pretty much asked for it and his response after pretty much says he knows as much. We’re going to need a Chris rock bit on how not to get red flagged. Quietly prepare a plan on how to defend yourself from antifa, no red flag. Announce how you plan to wipe out antifa publicly in a bloodbath and send your plans to a congressman, you’re gonna get a red flag....

 

[SgtHal75]

STAY OFF SOCIAL MEDIA WITH YOUR PLANS AND TACTICS....can’t say it any more basic than that.

 

[SgtHal75]

I believe he did apologize for his comments or something like that but it’s too late for him. His ego or frustration got the best of him and now he is defenseless. Hopefully a normal judge can look at this and tell him to cool it and give him his shit back.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Silence is golden

Tell me what's more important than your first amendment rights even if it means shooting off your mouth like a 200 year old cannon like this guy did? There was no threat of imminent lawless action. This red flag instance is the lefts/government attempt to move the goalpost of free speech.

 

[Dadstoys]

Tell me what's more important than your first amendment rights even if it means shooting off your mouth like a 200 year old cannon like this guy did? There was no threat of imminent lawless action. This red flag instance is the lefts/government attempt to move the goalpost of free speech.

The reality is that until this stuff gets to the supreme court and IF it goes our way it's what we have to deal with .
They are chomping at the bit to find any little excuse .
The myth that LE wouldn't enforce this sort of thing is out the window.

 

[headednorth]

The reality is that until this stuff gets to the supreme court and IF it goes our way it's what we have to deal with .
They are chomping at the bit to find any little excuse .
The myth that LE wouldn't enforce this sort of thing is out the window.

This. ANYONE can contact LE with the flimsiest of made up bs and LE will still act on it because theres no downside for them and they will want to cover their asses. Why risk being publically named as the department who didnt take guns away from the guy who later shot up a mall?

 

[Dadstoys]

This. ANYONE can contact LE with the flimsiest of made up bs and LE will still act on it because theres no downside for them and they will want to cover their asses. Why risk being publically named as the department who didnt take guns away from the guy who later shot up a mall?

The same with Judges.
Even one that isn't overtly anti 2A is going to cover their ass.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

This. ANYONE can contact LE with the flimsiest of made up bs and LE will still act on it because theres no downside for them and they will want to cover their asses. Why risk being publically named as the department who didnt take guns away from the guy who later shot up a mall?

The person who had his property seized should sue the person who called it in.. Filing a false report is a crime isn't it? Using the police as a means to get at someone you disagree with should result in liability exposure for the person making the false or borderline very weak report.

 

[Rehoboth Dave]

The person who had his property seized should sue the person who called it in.. Filing a false report is a crime isn't it? Using the police as a means to get at someone you disagree with should result in liability exposure for the person making the false or borderline very weak report.

I'm wondering about this as well.

 

[SpaceCritter]

We all know the left threatens people all the time and they put their hands on people all the time. If it happens in CA or OR or NY MA etc theyll get a pass.

This is no different than when back in the Bad Old Days cops/judges would give a pass to the Klan's shenanigans. It wasn't acceptable then, isn't now, and is a flagrant violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth.

 

[beaker]

This former Marine had the same training that I had. At boot, more than 20 years ago, we learned about the concept known as OPSEC. This fellow must have sleeping during this lecture from his DI.

Yes, I agree that he probably shouldn't have said anything, but what did he do that was illegal? And he had unilateral action taken against him, serious action. What happened to the idea of innocent until proven guilty? What happened to the burden of proof was on the State? These are very serious matters indeed. They are making people afraid, fear is the tool of tyranny, not for use on a free people.

 

[straightshooterjake]

Kohfield said outside of Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler's home. "I’d slaughter them, and I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antifa."

Words matter. In this case, the word "slaughter" has no possible connection to lawful self defense. Lawful use of force looks something like: I was in immediate fear for my life, I used force until the threat stopped, and once it was safe to do so, I removed myself and my family to a safer area.

A few words said in haste or anguish should not carry so much weight, but sometimes they do. And the word slaughter clearly conveys an intent that is unlawful in any jurisdiction. And the phrase "wipe out" is not any better.

Even if there was a completely lawful use of force, with a response proportionate to the level of threat, previous statements about slaughter could potentially be brought up to create questions about credibility and intent.

Note that I am not supporting what happened in this case, and I have no knowledge of whether the quotes given are even correct. But we do need to be careful what we say. I'm not saying that everyone should keep silent. But if you have an honorable intent, such as "If there is an immediate threat to my family, I will use force as necessary to protect them," then make sure your statements reflect what you mean.

 

[Bonesinium]

When the takeaway many got from this is asking “why” he said something and concluding the thing to do is curtail your speech, we are doomed.

Nobody should ever be required to curtail their 1A rights for fear of having their 2 and 4A rights violated.

I just love how people are willing to accept violations of others second and fourth amendment rights on the grounds like don’t like how someone exercised their first. It’s particularly ironic when what he said is what many people here are thinking and even have said or suggested themselves.

But hey, if you aren’t personally the victim to these things, who cares, right?

 

[Nick Fury]

The person who had his property seized should sue the person who called it in.. Filing a false report is a crime isn't it? Using the police as a means to get at someone you disagree with should result in liability exposure for the person making the false or borderline very weak report.

I'm wondering about this as well.

You both should read this thread. Your questions may be answered.

Well, the defendants didn't appeal....

Even after both the ex-wife and psychiatrist wrote letters to the PD who confiscated the weapons they were like nope sue us.

Bottom line is (and it really does not matter what the terms are) once police are involved all bets are off and they will attempt to extract their pound of flesh. That is guaranteed...