Falmouth HS student brings handgun to school. Father loses LTC.

I think that the father made the mistake of not properly educating his son about the consequences of his actions. My 11 year old son and I shoot all the time and he is well aware of the problems it would cause if he even brought an empty shell casing to school.

^ This. Seriously. If any of you have guns, and kids, you MUST show them this thread, and explain to them in no uncertain terms that there are consequences to their actions & let them know that going anywhere near firearms is strictly forbidden with no exceptions. Taking the gun to school is bad. Taking it in the first place was worse for many, many reasons due to all the problems and cost for the father. Had the kid really known all the shitstorm that was about to happen to them, he would never have taken it.
 
I'll chime in on the father's side, though I know as little about the situation as anyone else.

The dad may have done all that was paternally possible to drill the law and the realities into Jr's head....but, he's 15 years old, and therefore, a dumb kid. (No slam intended to any young-uns reading this....when you're a dad, you'll understand.....[laugh])

Dumb kids do dumb sh!t. That's why despite all the warnings and threats, they drink underage, experiment with controlled substances, and play bumper-tag with trees on twisty roads at "excessive rates of speed."

The recognition of this quality of kids is why there's supposed to be a separate "juvenile" criminal justice system.
 
I've stressed over and over to my 12yr old son (going on 16) that he shouldn't never discuss guns, draw guns (kids a freaking artist!), targets, etc. at school. I explained how some people really don't understand that guns are not evil. He totally gets it, and understands that IF he ever disrespects the rules I've put to him, he'll never go target shooting again.

It's entirely possible that the father SHOULD loose his license.

It is a very personal decision and you have the right to your opinion and I respect it. However, I teach my son that there is a time and place for everything. My son loves to tell all his friends when he goes to the range or gets a new gun. We have taken many of his friends and their Dads shooting. They quickly learn how serious we are about safety and responsibility and how much fun shooting is.

I feel that if we teach kids that shooting is a dirty secret it perpetuates bad stereotypes about gun owners. Only once did I have a single Mom tell me that she hates guns and wanted her son to have nothing to do with them. I told her that her son frequently plays video games where people get their spines ripped out and drug dealers get points for drive by shootings and asked her what she thought was more responsible. I also told her that she was going to need to pull her son out of Scouting as he needed his marksmanship merit badge.

Shooting is a right of passage that a father hands down to his son. That right is one of the greatest things about this country and I want my son to be proud of it, not ashamed.
 
^ This. Seriously. If any of you have guns, and kids, you MUST show them this thread, and explain to them in no uncertain terms that there are consequences to their actions & let them know that going anywhere near firearms is strictly forbidden with no exceptions. Taking the gun to school is bad. Taking it in the first place was worse for many, many reasons due to all the problems and cost for the father. Had the kid really known all the shitstorm that was about to happen to them, he would never have taken it.

Ill have to disagree, they should be taught gun safety at an early age and at the age of say 12-15 should know where the guns are kept in the event they are home alone and need to defend themselves. As for taking the gun to school being bad, why? Because the gov say so? So your right to defend yourself begins at age 21 and does not extend to school grounds? Bullshit.

I do agree that bringing an empty gun does little good, though as said earlier just pay off an upper-classmen to kick the ever living shit out the bullies, as the escalation of force doesnt add up.
 
It is a very personal decision and you have the right to your opinion and I respect it. However, I teach my son that there is a time and place for everything. My son loves to tell all his friends when he goes to the range or gets a new gun. We have taken many of his friends and their Dads shooting. They quickly learn how serious we are about safety and responsibility and how much fun shooting is.


Sorry, I should have been clearer, I've asked him NOT to discuss it in a class situation or a project. As far as talking about it with his friends at lunch, that would be OK as long as he's being honest and not making stuff up like I have him shooting a MG or something. After all, we all know MGs are BAD and NOT ALLOWED. [rolleyes]
 
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Scott: IMO this is a bucket of fail, due to the "telephone effect". His honesty with his friends will be distorted by the time it gets to the "powers that be." This, coupled with the gross cluelessnes of kids that know all their gun stuff from video games ("you can't shoot a 12 ga," my son was told, "It would dislocate your shoulder!") will have him shooting a MG at puppies when he was using a .22 target rifle in the prone position at 50 feet.

Your kid, your choice, but what you see as discretion may be interpreted as "weird secrecy" by others.

Good luck to us all, who have kids [grin]
 
Scott: IMO this is a bucket of fail, due to the "telephone effect". His honesty with his friends will be distorted by the time it gets to the "powers that be." This, coupled with the gross cluelessnes of kids that know all their gun stuff from video games ("you can't shoot a 12 ga," my son was told, "It would dislocate your shoulder!") will have him shooting a MG at puppies when he was using a .22 target rifle in the prone position at 50 feet.

Your kid, your choice, but what you see as discretion may be interpreted as "weird secrecy" by others.

Good luck to us all, who have kids [grin]

I'm not following? What exactly is a fail? There is no secrecy.
 
And when he refuses and tells them to come back with a warrant for the contents of his safe while he contacts his attorney? And starts filling in some fa-10s for the loss of his firearms in a boating accident?

There's case law on this very issue--possesion of firearms while lacking an LTC does *not* constitute an exigency. The police need a warrant. I don't remember the case off the top of my head, but it was the result of a 1983 suit in federal court. The revokee was awarded a good amount of money from the Town of Framingham in damages IIRC.
 
There's case law on this very issue--possesion of firearms while lacking an LTC does *not* constitute an exigency. The police need a warrant. I don't remember the case off the top of my head, but it was the result of a 1983 suit in federal court. The revokee was awarded a good amount of money from the Town of Framingham in damages IIRC.

That's not followed. Regularly and openly defied actually. And more scarily, sometimes the claims of exigency revolve around the combination of guns and the "reason" the person's LTC was revoked otherwise (i.e.; it's manufactured) which makes it easier for the courts to override the precedent.

I don't know how the above father's case would have the manufactured exigency to happen, but the former (ignoring the precedent) is easy enough to pull off still they would do that. Also, they would prevent anyone from leaving with the guns (i.e.; a buddy coming over) so all resisting would do is delay the inevitable because almost universally, if the PD comes heavy handed knocking for the guns, they are also a PD that ignores, chapter and verse, §129D and wants those guns converted to Dowd inventory.
 
Man, with all these PD's gun grabbing and contorting every minor incident into a massive life altering criminal ordeal it must be REALLY hard for officers with common sense to step up. Fighting that kind of current is awkward, these stories make me a little if-y about going for a LEO position after school.
 
Man, with all these PD's gun grabbing and contorting every minor incident into a massive life altering criminal ordeal it must be REALLY hard for officers with common sense to step up. Fighting that kind of current is awkward, these stories make me a little if-y about going for a LEO position after school.

We can only hope this hysteria will subside and common sense prevail ................. what a wish.
 
There's case law on this very issue--possesion of firearms while lacking an LTC does *not* constitute an exigency. The police need a warrant. I don't remember the case off the top of my head, but it was the result of a 1983 suit in federal court. The revokee was awarded a good amount of money from the Town of Framingham in damages IIRC.


This is good info. I will make sure that I recite it when they are smashing in my front door and drive a knee into the back of neck, grinding my face into the floor. The trouble is that 99 out of 100 leo's don't know this
 
The Falmouth Police Department has a very storied history of shady operation. Howey Carr touches upon that in his book about the Reine family shenanigans and how the police department allowed him to torch buildings and houses and murder a whole bunch of folks. Speak nothing of the cop that was shot (Buzby) having been thrown under the bus by his fellow officers. Nothing surprises me regarding the Falmouth P.D.

As for the kid......ultra stupid but the parent(s) need to somehow be held accountable for his actions. Hopefully the dad will get his LTC and weapons back but the likelyhood seems remote to my thinking.


What if the kid broke into a neighbor's house and stole their unloaded gun and took it to school? Would the father of the kid still need to be held accountable?
 
Holy Cow, Batman, another case of parental failure. Guess this father never sat junior down and had that long talk about responsibility and if he failed than dad would ground him forever after beating the living crap out of him. Guess we know who is the boss in that household don't we? Our society is failing in so many ways it is hard to count.
 
Translation: "It's entirely possible that the father SHOULD loose his second amendment rights." RLY?

"Possible" is the key word in my statement, and I stand by it.

Sometimes some people don't deserve rights. IF the father was a dumb ass and it led to his kid doing something dumb then yes, he should loose this right, and just feel lucky the kid didn't actually plan on shooting it in school.
 
Holy Cow, Batman, another case of parental failure.
Holy Cow, Batman, we've got some serious HSLD full-retard jumping to conclusions going on here!

No one here has any idea how the father raised this kid. He could have done all the right things and the kid might just be a clueless idiot. Let's not string him up just yet.
 
Aside:

Is this a good example for why it might be prudent to obtain an FID in addition to and LTC?

The FID is can't be as easily revoked, and the father would then be able to keep some long guns at least. And according to Powell case, it seems the state thinks an FID is adequate to keep a handgun in the home, too.

--jcr
 
... Although the father in this case apparently used a locking cabinent of some sort to hold his firearms, in MA even that isn't required... the minimal storage requirement here only requires the use of a trigger lock or cable lock.

I could leave ALL of my handguns sitting ON TOP of my nightstand or refrigerator, or even sitting on the kitchen counter, as long as they are properly secured with a trigger lock.

... And we all know that there aren't ANY videos available on the internet showing how to defeat trigger locks, right? [wink]


Let me Google that for you...



This father did NOT deserve to have his guns stolen by the police after he had a gun stolen by his son.
 
Aside:

Is this a good example for why it might be prudent to obtain an FID in addition to and LTC?

The FID is can't be as easily revoked, and the father would then be able to keep some long guns at least. And according to Powell case, it seems the state thinks an FID is adequate to keep a handgun in the home, too.

--jcr

In spite of the law, I'm certain that some PDs "would find a way" to confiscate everything he owned even if he had an FID as well as the LTC. The victim can always sue later, but the guns will long been gone!
 
... Although the father in this case apparently used a locking cabinent of some sort to hold his firearms, in MA even that isn't required... the minimal storage requirement here only requires the use of a trigger lock or cable lock.

I could leave ALL of my handguns sitting ON TOP of my nightstand or refrigerator, or even sitting on the kitchen counter, as long as they are properly secured with a trigger lock.

... And we all know that there aren't ANY videos available on the internet showing how to defeat trigger locks, right? [wink]


Let me Google that for you...



This father did NOT deserve to have his guns stolen by the police after he had a gun stolen by his son.

Wonder what they would have said if the kid had the gun in his pocket, with a trigger lock still on it.
 
"Possible" is the key word in my statement, and I stand by it.

Sometimes some people don't deserve rights. IF the father was a dumb ass and it led to his kid doing something dumb then yes, he should loose this right, and just feel lucky the kid didn't actually plan on shooting it in school.

So you believe a person should also lose their 1A rights if their kids say something that gets them in trouble at school? Who is decide when a persons rights should be removed?
 
It probably didn't help that a couple kids were playing with a gun in Randolph last night and 1 shots himself dead, then they pull this kid out of school today. The gun could have been loaded just as easily as it was empty and we could be looking at child deaths in school. Getting a LTC is hard enough in Ma we really don't need this attention.

We as parents are responsible for wat are underage children do regardless of if it is a gun issue of they break into a home or store or cause some form of vandalism. As a parent you will be responsible for the cost of damages your under age children do

For a civil property issue I can see it, but when was the last time a kid committed a crime and the parent went to trial? And in this case the parent is tried, convicted and punished by the cops: Judge Dred anyone?
 
For a civil property issue I can see it, but when was the last time a kid committed a crime and the parent went to trial? And in this case the parent is tried, convicted and punished by the cops: Judge Dred anyone?

Im sure he will have his day in court, I'm sure it didn't help that Falmouth is a red town either.
 
That's not followed. Regularly and openly defied actually. And more scarily, sometimes the claims of exigency revolve around the combination of guns and the "reason" the person's LTC was revoked otherwise (i.e.; it's manufactured) which makes it easier for the courts to override the precedent.

I don't know how the above father's case would have the manufactured exigency to happen, but the former (ignoring the precedent) is easy enough to pull off still they would do that. Also, they would prevent anyone from leaving with the guns (i.e.; a buddy coming over) so all resisting would do is delay the inevitable because almost universally, if the PD comes heavy handed knocking for the guns, they are also a PD that ignores, chapter and verse, §129D and wants those guns converted to Dowd inventory.
Looking up the case, it's actaully an SJC case from the mid 90's: http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/pasqualone_v_gately.txt

If the cops don't obey it on the front end, sue them on the back end. Sometimes police administrations need to feel it in the wallet. And if your guns are gone, hopefully you'll at a very minimum get enough cash to get back the value of your guns and then some.

Since its an SJC case, seems to me a good attorney would attach this case law to a 1983 lawsuit so that the SJC won't have an oppurtunity to override their decision.

Mark my words: the only thing that will change anti-2A police leaders is bleeding their towns' budgets dry. If the cops pull this BS, sue them. It's THE only thing that will make it end.
 
You really can't blame the Parent here , he did everything right. Its the Damn KID ! I know for a fact that all teenage KIDS are retarded. How do i know you ask ? I have 2 teenages right now and i can assure you they are both RETARDED. They never where retarded before but when they hit that magical age of 13 Boom instant Mental Retardation. The Good News is most teenages will outgrow this temporary state usually by the time they are 20 or so. Some take a bit longer and have been known to stay retarded well into mid life . I myself went through this age where i knew everything and wouldn't listen to anyone's advice . Let anyone say "my kid would never do something like that " Sure wait till they are 13 and up im ,warning ya.
 
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