Falmouth HS student brings handgun to school. Father loses LTC.

[rlee]

You really can't blame the Parent here , he did everything right. Its the Damn KID ! I know for a fact that all teenage KIDS are retarded. How do i know you ask ? I have 2 teenages right now and i can assure you they are both RETARDED. They never where retarded before but when they hit that magical age of 13 Boom instant Mental Retardation. The Good News is most teenages will outgrow this temporary state usually by the time they are 20 or so. Some take a bit longer and have been known to stay retarded well into mid life . I myself went through this age where i knew everything and wouldn't listen to anyone's advice . Let anyone say "my kid would never do something like that " Sure wait till they are 13 and up im ,warning ya.

Having been there, I really feel for you.
But that's funnier than hell.

 

[turbo89]

Not to derail this thread.. but has anyone ID'd the gun? It looks like a miniature 1911 calibered in .380?

 

[joehaus]

"Possible" is the key word in my statement, and I stand by it.

Sometimes some people don't deserve rights. IF the father was a dumb ass and it led to his kid doing something dumb then yes, he should loose this right, and just feel lucky the kid didn't actually plan on shooting it in school.

This guy didn't commit any crime and didn't receive any trial. It is a HUGE deal to take away someones rights and it should only be reserved for the most extreme of circumstances and with due process being observed.

 

[Len-2A Training]

For a civil property issue I can see it, but when was the last time a kid committed a crime and the parent went to trial? And in this case the parent is tried, convicted and punished by the cops: Judge Dred anyone?

Even for a civil property issue it can get hinky. I got a call one day by someone who wanted me to arrest a woman and bring her to court. Turns out that he sold a lawnmower to a 14 yo kid for $250 on a promise that the kid would pay him. The kid didn't pay and told him to pound sand so he took the mother to court, got a judgment and subsequently an arrest warrant. I wanted no part of this and refused to take the job. I'm sure that he got the Sheriffs Dept to do it for him. [Since a 14 yo can not enter into a contract, legally, the entire case smelled to me. I didn't care that a judge signed an arrest warrant.]

 

[el duderino]

Not to derail this thread.. but has anyone ID'd the gun? It looks like a miniature 1911 calibered in .380?

Colt mustang I believe.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Not to derail this thread.. but has anyone ID'd the gun? It looks like a miniature 1911 calibered in .380?

Colt Government Pocketlite, Stainless

No Longer manufactured. Based on the 1911 except everything is smaller.

If you like 1911 this is perfect for training or memory as the form and function is the same.

Not the Gov Mustang nor the Pony,

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/the-tale-of-two-colts-in-380/

Take care,

Matt

 

[MisterHappy]

I'm not following? What exactly is a fail? There is no secrecy.

My point, which I guess I didn't state clearly is that you don't want your son discussing it it class, or in a project, but it's ok for him to talk to his friends at lunch.

Scott Jr. tells Tommy he went rifle shooting; Tommy tells Billy that Scott Jr. was shooting guns; Charlie overhears, and tells Bill that Scott Jr, "Has a gun! I just heard it!" where a teacher is able to overhear.

At this point, See [hear] Something, Say Something comes into play.

If the teachers know that Scott Jr does Junior rifle, then IMO there's less chance of this report causing trouble than "Scott Jr has gun!!!!!!!"

When my elder (less shooting) son was overheard talking about guns in IIRC 3rd grade, I got a call from the guidance counselor;

Do you have guns?
Yep
How are they stored?
Properly.

End of discussion, and issue.

While I understand the desire for confidentiality, in this Facebook-infested culture, one person's discretion is another's creepy secrecy....

Please don't think that I'm telling you that you're wrong - each family and school system has its own realities...just my opinion, and what's worked for me.....

 

[namedpipes]

"his father is "shocked" that his son was able to get the weapon out of his locked gun cabinet."

So the father hasn't done anything wrong (by PRM legal standards)? I think he has a case for a) getting his guns back and b) getting his LTC back. There's no way he can be considered unfit. Any decision to the contrary would be "arbitrary and capricious.

Maybe. After paying a lawyer $10k, maybe.

 

[turbo89]

Colt Government Pocketlite, Stainless

No Longer manufactured. Based on the 1911 except everything is smaller.

If you like 1911 this is perfect for training or memory as the form and function is the same.

Not the Gov Mustang nor the Pony,

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/the-tale-of-two-colts-in-380/

Take care,

Matt

+1 Great Info! Looks like a good carry rig if it's as reliable as other 1911's.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This guy didn't commit any crime and didn't receive any trial. It is a HUGE deal to take away someones rights and it should only be reserved for the most extreme of circumstances and with due process being observed.

This is an ugly situation. The father has to consider not only his own situation, but his sons. Any defense offered about how the guns were properly stored, that it takes a considerable effort to breech his security, etc. would serve to undermine any defense about how a good kid succumbed to temptation and this was a matter of bad judgement rather than criminal intent on the part of the offspring. In other words, the father can shoulder some of the de-facto blame, or put it all where it belongs (on the kid). Not a good situation to be in.

 

[Bill Nance]

You must have been a choir-boy. And your kids of course NEVER EVER do something you didn't want them to.

UNLOADED GUN. NO ONE was in any danger at all.

And now Dad loses his fundamental rights.

How again are you different from the Brady Bunch?

The dad gets no sympathy from me. He didn't raise his kid right and didn't properly store his gun - especially in light of how trustworthy his kid is.

 

[cockpitbob]

You must have been a choir-boy. And your kids of course NEVER EVER do something you didn't want them to.

UNLOADED GUN. NO ONE was in any danger at all.

And now Dad loses his fundamental rights.

How again are you different from the Brady Bunch?

Until they are 18, we are responsible for our kids. It's that simple. My child - my responsibility.
Assuming he did have the gun locked up (which is the dad's story, not an established fact) the dad was in compliance with MA law, but compliance with law doesn't absolve him if his duty to know his son well enough to keep things locked up well enough for his personal situation. Clearly he failed there.

BTW, I'm astonished at those that think a 15yo stealing a gun and bringing it to school is no big deal just because it wasn't loaded.

 

[cockpitbob]

No one here has any idea how the father raised this kid. He could have done all the right things and the kid might just be a clueless idiot. Let's not string him up just yet.

If the kid turned out to be demon seed the dad has the duty to keep things better locked up.

 

[Scott D.]

Until they are 18, we are responsible for our kids. It's that simple. My child - my responsibility.
Assuming he did have the gun locked up (which is the dad's story, not an established fact) the dad was in compliance with MA law, but compliance with law doesn't absolve him if his duty to know his son well enough to keep things locked up well enough for his personal situation. Clearly he failed there.

BTW, I'm astonished at those that think a 15yo stealing a gun and bringing it to school is no big deal just because it wasn't loaded.

This! All of THIS!

We're not in the days of Little house on the prairie anymore when your kid had one teacher, one class room and the same students in the same class for their entire scholastic experience. Back then it would have been OK because you knew if the kid has "issues" that may make him want to pull off a school shooting... I feel some of you may be stuck in those times.

If My son (13) was to steal a gun from me, I'd expect him to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'd also expect myself to be prosecuted because I failed in educating him and also securing my stuff.

Mr Happy, I understand what your saying and I do believe that does happen. BUT the difference is, that scenario would warrant a phone call OR at the most a meeting with a school official. I also think that if my son was open about shooting (sport) I'd also likely get a call from a moonbat teacher. I'd rather get that call then the call from the popo that they have my son AND my gun.

 

[namedpipes]

If the kid turned out to be demon seed the dad has the duty to keep things better locked up.

You seem to have prejudged that dad was negligent and son was an "obvious" freak.

Just as *maybe* as your scenario, the kid was under constant harassment, the school was doing nothing, the parent's didn't know and the kid wanted to keep the bullies away. My guess is, if he really wanted to kill somebody he could have.

 

[namedpipes]

...
If My son (13) was to steal a gun from me, I'd expect him to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'd also expect myself to be prosecuted because I failed in educating him and also securing my stuff.
...

You wouldn't be curious *why* first?

 

[Scott D.]

You wouldn't be curious *why* first?

You bet I would, go's without saying!

 

[namedpipes]

just maybe that kid never heard it said ...

you're not wrong it is a big thing for a kid to bring a gun even unload to school

but it is not the same as some grown adult knocking over banker liquor store somewhere for the cash register

pardon my formatting I'm on my phone .

 

[capewalk]

Unless I don't understand the storage laws correctly, provided the firearm in question was in some type of locked container or had a trigger lock on it the father met his legal obligation and shouldn't lose his rights because of someone else's actions. If there is some type of law or regulation regarding the effectiveness of the means with which you secure your firearms I sure would like to know what it is. As I understand it any locked container or trigger locking device satisfies the law. If that device it defeated by someone else how exactly are you culpable?

Any parent who thinks that they raised their kid right and the he/she will never make an error in judgement is in my opinion beyond naive.

 

[bluenose]

Had the gun been loaded,it could have easily fired........
Yeah and if my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle

 

[jamesvt]

This! All of THIS!

We're not in the days of Little house on the prairie anymore when your kid had one teacher, one class room and the same students in the same class for their entire scholastic experience. Back then it would have been OK because you knew if the kid has "issues" that may make him want to pull off a school shooting... I feel some of you may be stuck in those times.

If My son (13) was to steal a gun from me, I'd expect him to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'd also expect myself to be prosecuted because I failed in educating him and also securing my stuff.

Mr Happy, I understand what your saying and I do believe that does happen. BUT the difference is, that scenario would warrant a phone call OR at the most a meeting with a school official. I also think that if my son was open about shooting (sport) I'd also likely get a call from a moonbat teacher. I'd rather get that call then the call from the popo that they have my son AND my gun.

What about if your sons friend stole a gun from you, would it still be okay for the government to take away your rights and steal your property? What if your son brings a knife to school should all the knives in you house be confiscated? When you replace gun with "x deadly item" you see how ridiculous you sound thinking it is okay for the government to steal your property and take away a persons rights. Which is the whole point of the Bill of Rights. They are not granted by the government but rights you are born with and under ANY circumstances cannot be taken away from any from you.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Until they are 18, we are responsible for our kids. It's that simple. My child - my responsibility.
Assuming he did have the gun locked up (which is the dad's story, not an established fact) the dad was in compliance with MA law, but compliance with law doesn't absolve him if his duty to know his son well enough to keep things locked up well enough for his personal situation. Clearly he failed there.

BTW, I'm astonished at those that think a 15yo stealing a gun and bringing it to school is no big deal just because it wasn't loaded.

All of which is 100% correct. However, it's still doesn't warrant an LTC revocation by someone who as of present is not accused of breaking any criminal laws. While not yet "an established fact" I seem to remember a little something from grade school about being innocent until proven guilty.

 

[pdm]

All of which is 100% correct. However, it's still doesn't warrant an LTC revocation by someone who as of present is not accused of breaking any criminal laws. While not yet "an established fact" I seem to remember a little something from grade school about being innocent until proven guilty.

Does that mean I jumped the gun on the group buy on torches and pitchforks? Damn...

 

[cockpitbob]

However, it's still doesn't warrant an LTC revocation by someone who as of present is not accused of breaking any criminal laws.

You are absolutely correct. AFAIK the father has broken no laws. I guess I see the Chief's side. The kid is going home to the same house/father that allowed him to get a gun and bring it to school. If the same thing happened again the Chief would be in trouble and all over the papers. I would take steps to see it didn't happen again. And with the F'ed up laws in this state, the Chief has the latitude to do that.

And, I'm pissed at the dad for letting his kid get in this kind of trouble.