Failure to feed, WASR 10/63

chopper_man

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Hey all,
Am getting a failure to feed issue with a new WASR 10/63 I recently picked up. It's a Century that was bought several years ago but was never fired prior to me getting it a month or so ago. I cleaned the crap out of all the cosmoline that was caked on it.

Action on it seems very smooth, does do a minor bolt friction/stop when passing over the hammer, ie if I ride it forward it will stay open but then even the slightest bump or tap it fully goes in to battery. Everything I'm reading says this is 100% normal and will go away in time (seems to be getting better already).

Magazines seem to lock up just fine, very minor front to back movement, bit more side to side but again, everything I am reading it seems normal.

Problem seems to get better the warmer the rifle is and gets even better with the dust shield off, but never goes away completly. I did find a rub area on the dust shield from the very back of the bolt which I think I can take care of with a minor filing. The bolt does have a very sharp area where it is rubbing.

Lots and lots of internet searching brought me to this page. http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?76309-Troubleshooting-WASR-10-63-s-A-beginner-s-guide Item number 3 seems to be exactly what I have. Concern is that there are zero responses to the thread and the only one I have found about it. Before I try filing down the edges on the bolt I wanted to run it past you folks. If I pull the charging handle back slightly and just let it run over the rounds, it does leave a scrape/scratch on the cases.

Things I have tried:
1. Clean, clean clean, from baking the parts to solvent running clean, everything I think of to get rid of the cosmoline.
2. Dry, light, moderate, heavy lube seems to have no effect
3. Countless magazine, from surplus to Tapco's to brand new all do the same. Tapco's lock up the tightest.
4. Dust shield on/off, gets better with it off but not gone
5. Added a recoil buffer, didn't seem to help
6. Bolt action, with spring out, drops back real nice, doesn't seem to have any gas tube binding at all.
7. This happens whether during firing and even manually cycling it thru a full or half magazine
8. All types of rounds, surplus, fmj, soft point, hp, all the same results
9. Break in, about 500 rounds thru it

Sorry for the long winded post, wanted to try and give as much info as I could.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
-Brian
 

mac1911

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To make it clear your bolt is failing to push the cartridge from the mag and into the chamber.
What magazines are you using.
 

GLOCK-22

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They are known for that because they come in to the country as single stack ten round mag well then cut and bent to fit 30 round mags.

Some one I know had the same problem and had to shim the mag or the mag well.
 

chopper_man

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To make it clear your bolt is failing to push the cartridge from the mag and into the chamber.
What magazines are you using.
Correct, does not dent the case, doesn't even chamber it. When it occurs I typically just need to pull the bolt back and tip to the right and let the round fall out. I have tried many different mags (all double stack) from surplus, to brand new, to Tapco's. 10's, 30's 40's, all do the same

- - - Updated - - -

They are known for that because they come in to the country as single stack ten round mag well then cut and bent to fit 30 round mags.

Some one I know had the same problem and had to shim the mag or the mag well.
I read about that as well. Couldn't find much about shimming the mag well, lots about replacing the catch
 

chopper_man

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Is it possible the mag catch is not catching correctly.
Sounds like the rear of the mag is sitting a tad low.
I did try holding the mag back as well as tried resting the mag base on the bench to try and push it up a little higher to account for the bit of front/back rock it had. Unfortunately that didn't seem to help. I found a few posts regarding the bolt hanging up in the bolt carrier, gives me something else to check.
 

chopper_man

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Looks to me like the bullet guide is there. Ramp itself looks like it's taking a bit if a beating, doesn't look like much of a "ramp" at all tho. The bottom lobe on the bolt looks a bit odd, seems to be rounded on one side, flat on the other.
IMG_2351.jpgIMG_2352.jpgIMG_2352.jpgIMG_2353.jpgIMG_2354.jpgIMG_2355.jpg
 

01SVTvert

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Pic with the round hung up will show you where it is dragging. You sometimes have to adjust the guide with a minor bit of filing. It happen from both sides of the mag?

Get rid of the drag on the cover. Lube well the hammer where it is dragging on the bolt.
 
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chopper_man

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Pic with the round hung up will show you where it is dragging. You sometimes have to adjust the guide with a minor bit of filing. It happen from both sides of the mag?

Get rid of the drag on the cover. Lube well the hammer where it is dragging on the bolt.
Both sides of the mag.... now that's a great question! Will try it on the way home from work tomorrow if there is time. Will try and grab a photo of where the hang up is.
 

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Are you using FMJ? Sometimes the leading edge of the chambers in the WASRs are very sharp and will catch on exposed lead on the bullet tip if otherwise.

The "shim" others are mentioning, is that the one to rid it of the mag wobble?
 

chopper_man

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Are you using FMJ? Sometimes the leading edge of the chambers in the WASRs are very sharp and will catch on exposed lead on the bullet tip if otherwise.

The "shim" others are mentioning, is that the one to rid it of the mag wobble?
Have tried all types of rounds, mostly fmj, they all do it. The leading edge of the chamber does seem a bit sharp, doesn't really have a "ramp". The rounds themselves seem to be making/polishing the ramp based on the pics I posted earlier in the thread.
 

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My advice is to use a tooth brush and some solvent and clean the bolt face and extractor really well.
Then buy a 10 rd Magpul AK mag and see if that helps.
 

chopper_man

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OK, did some more testing. When manually cycling it the hang-up is always when feeding from the left however when firing it can be either side. I took a few more pics when it was happening. Scratching the round pretty heavily. Also tried a 10 round promag, same thing, seems to be no matter what mag I use. The buffer makes a HUGE difference, without it it's probably 1 out of 3, with it maybe 1 out of 7. Also took care of where the bolt carrier was hitting the dust shield, minor filing of the edge took care of it. Any other thoughts? Going to try and beg/borrow a bolt and see if that makes a difference.
-Brian
IMG_2357.jpgIMG_2358.jpgIMG_2359.jpg
 
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Hey OP, Im no expert but I was curious so I got out my WASR10 to compare. I have no idea if this is significant but its an observation I made. The chamfer on the bullet guides look pretty similar in our two guns. However, on the lower edge of the chamber entrance you'll notice my gun has a pretty significant radius cut. Does yours have this?...It doesnt look like it. Again, I dont know how significant this is. I have no idea if that radius cut is typical among WASR's or not. I can say, I have put several hundred rounds through mine with zero malfunctions of any kind.


Yours:







Mine:



 
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chopper_man

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Hey OP, Im no expert but I was curious so I got out my WASR10 to compare. I have no idea if this is significant but its an observation I made. The chamfer on the bullet guides look pretty similar in our two guns. However, on the lower edge of the chamber entrance you'll notice my gun has a pretty significant radius cut. Does yours have this?...It doesnt look like it. Again, I dont know how significant this is. I have no idea if that radius cut is typical among WASR's or not. I can say, I have put several hundred rounds through mine with zero malfunctions of any kind.
Thanks, I very much appreciate you taking the time. I too noticed that I had no ramp at all, seems to be taking a bit of a beating there as well. That would be nice it it's something as simple as that. Anyone else thinking the same?
 

chopper_man

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Whats thoughts on this? Is it possible I have a single stack bolt? Found a decent pic on the interwebs comparing them. Mine looks more like the single stack I think. @tripletaco, any chance you can post a picture of your bolt?
dbl vs sngl.jpgIMG_2353.JPG
 
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Im out of town for a few days. I will def get a couple pictures of the bolt when Im back home. However, from what I can remember my bolt looks exactly like the picture you posted of your bolt earlier in the thread.

I was under the impression a slightly thinner lug on the bottom of the bolt was common among WASR's. Ive got a couple other AK bolts I can check to compare. I dont beleive the thinner lug is a real factor in malfunctions though. At least it hasnt been for me. I'll do some checking when Im home.


 

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I think the narrower bolt you have coupled with the side to side movement of your mag is causing the bolt to not catch the round.
 

chopper_man

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I think the narrower bolt you have coupled with the side to side movement of your mag is causing the bolt to not catch the round.
I'm leaning that way as well, especially on the left side (right side in picture) of the bolt is rounded. Would explain the scrapes on the cases as well. Anyone know any local places (Metrowest area) that may have a bolt in stock?

---edit---

Looks like it's not simply "plug and play", requires fitting and head spacing. Suggestions on a Gunsmith that's decent with AK's?
 
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You are in an unfortunate situation here. This rifle has what we call a "single stack" bolt installed. It was never intended to be converted to accept double stack magazines, and it will not function correctly with them in its current configuration. This is unfortunately a very common garage gunsmithing problem. You will need to find a real WASR or RomArms "double stack" bolt, which is much easier said than done. They majority of these bolts are currently in complete parts kits, and finding a lone bolt for sale is exceedingly rare. The move on these will usually be to buy a WASR 10 parts kit, headspace and fit the new bolt to the existing barrel, and sell the rest of the parts on Gunbroker. We actually have two of these WASRs in the shop right now that we are searching for bolts for. If anyone knows a decent source for WASR bolts in North America please spread the love!
 

chopper_man

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You are in an unfortunate situation here. This rifle has what we call a "single stack" bolt installed. It was never intended to be converted to accept double stack magazines, and it will not function correctly with them in its current configuration. This is unfortunately a very common garage gunsmithing problem. You will need to find a real WASR or RomArms "double stack" bolt, which is much easier said than done. They majority of these bolts are currently in complete parts kits, and finding a lone bolt for sale is exceedingly rare. The move on these will usually be to buy a WASR 10 parts kit, headspace and fit the new bolt to the existing barrel, and sell the rest of the parts on Gunbroker. We actually have two of these WASRs in the shop right now that we are searching for bolts for. If anyone knows a decent source for WASR bolts in North America please spread the love!
+1, great info! Since the bolts are so rare what about making a template of a double-stack one and having some material welded on?
 
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HELP....I Realize this thread is almost 2 years old, but I have just encountered the opposite problem. In my ignorance I installed a dual-stack bolt in a single stack rifle that was missing the bolt. I now have a dual stack bolt, that will NOT work and desperately need a single stack bolt. I have $77.00 in dual stack bolt and would be proud to swap even with someone with a single stack bolt. Thanks for any help
 

chopper_man

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HELP....I Realize this thread is almost 2 years old, but I have just encountered the opposite problem. In my ignorance I installed a dual-stack bolt in a single stack rifle that was missing the bolt. I now have a dual stack bolt, that will NOT work and desperately need a single stack bolt. I have $77.00 in dual stack bolt and would be proud to swap even with someone with a single stack bolt. Thanks for any help
I haven’t done anything with mine since I posted, been a safe queen. Do you have a head space gauge? If so, willing to try your in my rifle, if it works we can definately swap. If not then I will mail yours back. PM me if you want to give it a try. Too bad you’re not local!
 
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You are in an unfortunate situation here. This rifle has what we call a "single stack" bolt installed. It was never intended to be converted to accept double stack magazines, and it will not function correctly with them in its current configuration. This is unfortunately a very common garage gunsmithing problem. You will need to find a real WASR or RomArms "double stack" bolt, which is much easier said than done. They majority of these bolts are currently in complete parts kits, and finding a lone bolt for sale is exceedingly rare. The move on these will usually be to buy a WASR 10 parts kit, headspace and fit the new bolt to the existing barrel, and sell the rest of the parts on Gunbroker. We actually have two of these WASRs in the shop right now that we are searching for bolts for. If anyone knows a decent source for WASR bolts in North America please spread the love!
These guys might be able to help. AK-47 Bolts & Carriers In Stock & ready to Ship.
 
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I sent these guys an email asking if their bolts were "single stack". I took no response as a "no".
But I sure appreciate your input. I'm in touch with chopper_man and we may be swapping bolts, but any other ideas I can sure put in my "just in case" tool box.
I have also contact Century Arms, but have not received a reply from them either. Will do that if I can't get this swap done.
Many thanks, again!!
 
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I sent these guys an email asking if their bolts were "single stack". I took no response as a "no".
But I sure appreciate your input. I'm in touch with chopper_man and we may be swapping bolts, but any other ideas I can sure put in my "just in case" tool box.
I have also contact Century Arms, but have not received a reply from them either. Will do that if I can't get this swap done.
Many thanks, again!!
No problem.
 
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