Explicit: Some words for the a**h***'s at the P-Bruins

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I was at the Providence Bruins game tonight with my stepfather. He spent 16 years in the Navy 6 years active, 2 of them during Vietnam and 10 years reserve. Before the national anthem started we were asked to stand and take off our hats for our beautiful country. Some lazy son of a bitch didn’t take his hat off. I try to focus on the flag during the national anthem, but I cant help but to notice these a**h***s that don’t have any respect for our country. Then there are people who are still trying to find their seat To make matters worse, the ushers actually help them….during our anthem. Stop for 2 f*cking minutes. There are young men and women fighting a war right now and people are worried that their seats are going to disappear like a fart in the wind. Look take off your hat, don’t worry about your seat and put the damn nacho’s down. If that is too hard to do then get the f*ck out and move to France.
 
That's really funny. Because when I'm at Red Sox games, I do the same thing. I will sit there and stare at the people that don't have thier hats off willing them to take it off during the Anthem. Or put their hats or hands over thier hearts.
 
Not much you can do about the morons and their hats - it is a free country and one is free to be a stupid f*** - God knows enough people exercise that right. I blame the facility - if the ushers were trained to set an example - the message might get around.
 
On a more positive note, I had the opportunity to go to a Red Sox game and sit in the .406 Club at the end of the season and was amazed when the Canadian national anthem was played everyone got up from their dinner and got out of their seat at the bar. I was wondering what was going to happen since you hear it on T.V. more than through the glass. But people had respect for both anthems. It was refreshing to see. Also if you are invited to sit up there for game definitely go, it was awesome. The food was excellent the bar was good and there is not a bad seat up there.
 
jshooter said:
On a more positive note, I had the opportunity to go to a Red Sox game and sit in the .406 Club at the end of the season and was amazed when the Canadian national anthem was played everyone got up from their dinner and got out of their seat at the bar. I was wondering what was going to happen since you hear it on T.V. more than through the glass. But people had respect for both anthems. It was refreshing to see. Also if you are invited to sit up there for game definitely go, it was awesome. The food was excellent the bar was good and there is not a bad seat up there.
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Not anymore. I mean, the 406 is still there, it's just now the glass isn't going to be there. And I think that there will be a couple more rows where the glass was.
 
It's just total ignorance on their part. They don't teach US History anymore and they sure as hell don't teach Flag etiquette or Patriotism.
 
I must say that I have an issue with the pledge. After reading much of what the Founding Fathers wrote, I suspect they too would have an issue with swearing out an oath to the government.
 
sieveboy said:
I must say that I have an issue with the pledge. After reading much of what the Founding Fathers wrote, I suspect they too would have an issue with swearing out an oath to the government.
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[shock] Are you f***ing kidding me? The Pledge of Allegiance is so important to America and it's youth. READ THIS


http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/6/afa/Buehrer1.asp


This article offers four points to remember when explaining to friends why "under God" must remain in the Pledge of Allegiance.

While many people "feel" that reciting the Pledge is good, we must help them understand why it is a good thing to do. It is up to us to help our friends and neighbors, our children and their teachers, understand the meaning of the Pledge.

This is a pivotal moment for our society. Court cases like the Ninth Circuit's decision to ban the Pledge of Allegiance from schools foster public debate and can gradually sway public opinion. What was once a "given" is now "questionable." The Supreme Court may find that the lower court was wrong. But, some school officials may decide not to have children recite the Pledge anyway because, "On second thought, it may be insensitive and intolerant in our multicultural society. Maybe, a mere recitation of the phrase 'United We Stand' would be more inclusive."

Here are four points I suggest you make as you talk about the Pledge:

1. Thomas Jefferson explained why being "One Nation Under God" is important.

Thomas Jefferson and our other Founding Fathers understood that the government does not give us our freedom. Our freedom comes from God, and the government was established to protect that God-given freedom. That was their justification for the American Revolution as stated in the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson wrote:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government laying its foundation on such principles."

No king or emperor, no president or congress, no court or crowd gives us our rights. They come from God himself and are unalienable. And the Founders built America's "foundation on such principles."

2. Abraham Lincoln explained why being "one Nation under God" is important.

Abraham Lincoln understood that the nation's unity and freedom depended upon being one nation under God. In the Gettysburg Address, Lincoln used the exact phrase, "nation, under God," echoed in the Pledge of Allegiance. He began his address by referring to the Founding Fathers' foundation in God-given rights:
"Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure."

As Lincoln closes his remarks honoring the fallen soldiers at Gettysburg, he offered this inspiring vision:
"...that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

3. It doesn't matter that the phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge in the 1950s.

Some people argue that "under God" was not in the original Pledge and was inserted over 50 years later. But, that only proves it took over 50 years to get it right!

4. The phrase "under God" does not make the Pledge a prayer.

Some people argue that "under God" is a form of prayer, and thus it is unconstitutional to have schoolchildren recite it. However, a careful reading of the Pledge of Allegiance reveals that we are not pledging allegiance to God. We are, instead, pledging allegiance to a republic. The Pledge describes the republic as one nation under God and indivisible. In other words, it is a statement of fact. It is a fact that our Founders established our government on the proposition that freedom comes from God, not the state.

As both Jefferson and Lincoln attest, the American people's freedom-the freedom of your neighbors, your co-workers, your children, and their teachers, are because we are one nation under God. Take that principle away, remove it from our national consciousness, and we will lose the very basis for the freedoms we so easily take for granted.

Lincoln said it well, "Now we are in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure."

In this war of ideas, people will not defend what they do not cherish, and they will not cherish what they do not understand.
 
Perhaps another perspective?

Well, we’ve had another federal judge rule that making children in public schools recite the "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, because it amounts to establishing a religion. As long as the topic is likely to be in the news again – and probably a godsend for Republicans concerned about the Bush administration’s performance in Iraq and our own Gulf in the 2006 election – we might as well widen the debate.

It’s not the "under God" part I object to; although I can see an abstract argument that this is a first step on a slippery slope toward establishing a religion, it really isn’t. If I thought it really meant the nation was to submit itself to God, which would mean a lot fewer wars of choice and a lot less stealing in the "public interest," I might even be enthusiastic. But this formulation is one of vague public piety more meant to imply that God is on our side than to express fealty to His commandments.

I object to the very idea of making students "pledge allegiance" to a rapacious state mechanism – and that is unquestionably what the pledge was designed to do, to encourage an attitude of unquestioning obedience that is unworthy of a free people.

As this article by Gene Healy of Cato asks, "What’s Conservative about the Pledge of Allegiance?" The pledge was drafted in virtually its present form in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, an unapologetic socialist who had been pushed out of his position as a Baptist minister because his sermons reflected more socialism than Gospel. Francis was cousin to Edward Bellamy, who wrote the 1888 utopian socialist novel Looking Backward, which I had to read in college in a class on utopian thinking. I guess it was valuable to know that to Bellamy utopia meant a highly regimented place where all incomes were equal and men were drafted into the state’s "industrial army" at age 21 and did whatever the state decided they should do. It helped to cement my distaste for such a system.

After being kicked out of the pulpit Francis Bellamy went to work for a magazine called Youth’s Companion, and decided to work through the public schools rather than the church to advance his notion of a socialist worker’s paradise. The Pledge was unquestionably part of this campaign. Bellamy even recommended that the ceremony start with a military salute and "At the words, ‘to my Flag,’ the right hand is extended gracefully, palm upward, towards the Flag, and remains in this gesture till the end of the affirmation." For better or worse (and to be fair, long after Bellamy’s recommendation) the Nazis adopted this same salute. It was quietly dropped from American practice, but the intention was similar – to encourage a quasi-religious subordination to government.

In a country founded on "unalienable rights" of individuals, in which the government’s job is supposedly to "preserve these rights" and not much else, the government should be pledging allegiance to citizens and their rights, not the other way around.

It is curious that people who call themselves conservatives now consider this overtly socialist inducement to state-worship part of the sacred tradition of liberty and justice.
 
And look at the source of your information. [roll]

When I grab my info from somewhere I at least show where it comes from.
Here’s yours. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/bock2.html

Lets see what else they have to say.

Lew Rockwell
Anti-state, Anti-war, Pro-market
Yes yopu read that right "Anti- State" Great source [roll]

Objectivism, Hitler, and Kant
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon13.html


If it looks like shit and smells like shit....
shit.gif




But I will say there are a few things that I might agree with on some of his blogs but others to me in my opinion are ass wrong.
 
Moderator said:
3. It doesn't matter that the phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge in the 1950s.

Some people argue that "under God" was not in the original Pledge and was inserted over 50 years later. But, that only proves it took over 50 years to get it right!
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Just to add to the discussion... I remember being told (by someone who was alive when this was added) that the "under G-d" part was added in the middle of the Cold War to distinguish us from the "godless communists".

I'm not sure it needs to stay in, really... our Declaration certainly makes the point by itself: "With a firm reliance on Divine Providence...". We don't need to ram it in people's faces.

OTOH, I disagree with sieveboy about this making anyone ""pledge allegiance" to a rapacious state mechanism".

Let's look at the text, shall we?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under G-d, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Seems to me that you're making a promise to the REPUBLIC, which is most definitely NOT the government. It is the PEOPLE. Can you be patriotic while not trusting the government? Sure. TJ certainly thought so... remember the part about "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"?

BTW... just out of curiousity, TypeO... How often do you recite the Pledge? (and I'm not trying to be a wise a$$ here, I'm just wondering - most people say it in school, but when do they ever say it again?) (I say it at least once a month... at the beginning of every Lodge meeting. In case you were wondering. And yes, I do say "Under G-d.")

Ross
 
Ross, when you get to the "One Nation, Under God" there is no comma or break between Nation and Under. "One Nation Under God". I say it that way whenever I recite it (at least once a month @ Lodge) and it throws everyone off!
 
I admit it has been some time since I have said it. Infact that is an excellent point, I never really thought about. See that, there’s something I plan to change about myself. Thanks Ross

I am not sure but if my memory is right, it was either at court or the opening of the ballots for election day. For me they are held in a school gym.
 
JonJ said:
Ross, when you get to the "One Nation, Under God" there is no comma or break between Nation and Under. "One Nation Under God". I say it that way whenever I recite it (at least once a month @ Lodge) and it throws everyone off!
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The Master at Franklin takes a pause out from an area where people usually pause, too. I just say it the way I learned it at Radburn School. :D
 
Getting back to the original subject of this thread...

I just replaced the flag that I fly on the front of my house, as the old one was torn, and in the package with the new flag was a flyer with the Flag Code in it. Here's an excerpt from it that's relevent to this discussion:

National ANTHEM
The "Star spangled Banner" was written in 1814 by Francis Scott Key and declared the national anthem in 1931. When the anthem is played or sung, citizens should stand and face the flag to show their respect for the United States. A non-uniformed person wearing a hat must remove it with the right hand and hold it against the left shoulder, right hand resting over the heart. Those in uniform must stand at attention and salute the flag. (Note: If the flag is not displayed, face the music instead.)

Pledge OF Allegiance
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Whenever the Pledge of Allegiance is recited, all non-uniformed persons should stand at attention facing the flag with their right hands over their hearts. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag and render the military salute.
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The old flag I will take to the Post Office. In the Marlboro PO, there's a bin that's put there by the American Legion (I think) to collect old worn out flags for a respectful disposal. I don't know if all PO's have this, but I'm glad that Marlboro's does.

I fly the flag because even with all our faults... This is still the best damned country in the world to live in. And I'm very glad my ancestors came here.

And to anyone who'd like to differ with me, I have only one question: How come people from all over the world are trying to become Americans by legal or illegal means?

OK, I've said what I wanted to say.
 
I was going to post that we are not pledging to the government, but to the Republic, however, Ross beat me to it. We are pledging alliegance to the FLAG of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands. A republic is not the government, but the country.

Ergo...I pledge my life, my heart, and my soul to the defense of my country and for everything that my country represents and means to me. I stand during the pledge, or during the National Anthem and place my right hand over my heart. Not because that's what I was taught to do (maybe at first when I was but a young'un), but because I do love this country and would gladly fight and die for her in her defense, if need be.

When hubby and I were working security at the Coastie Station in Boston, they would raise the flag every morning at 8AM. I stood at attention and saluted because I was in uniform. I may not have to do that (because I'm not military), but for some reason it feels like the right thing to do, and right or wrong, I'll continue to do that whenever the situation rises.

If someone doesn't want to stand during the N.A. or the pledge, well...that's up to them. This country, although it irritates the hell out of me to see it, allows them the right not to. I'll defend that person's right to do as he or she wishes, but that doesn't mean I won't glare at them for showing their disrespect.
 
Lynne said:
I'll defend that person's right to do as he or she wishes, but
that doesn't mean I won't glare at them for showing their disrespect.
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Well... I may suggest gently to folks around me that standing for the flag or the anthem is the right thing to do. Ya know... subtle-like.

About as subtle as a 10 lb sledge hammer, that is. [twisted]
 
Moderator said:
I was at the Providence Bruins game tonight with my stepfather. He spent 16 years in the Navy 6 years active, 2 of them during Vietnam and 10 years reserve. Before the national anthem started we were asked to stand and take off our hats for our beautiful country. Some lazy son of a bitch didn’t take his hat off. I try to focus on the flag during the national anthem, but I cant help but to notice these a**h***s that don’t have any respect for our country. Then there are people who are still trying to find their seat To make matters worse, the ushers actually help them….during our anthem. Stop for 2 f*cking minutes. There are young men and women fighting a war right now and people are worried that their seats are going to disappear like a fart in the wind. Look take off your hat, don’t worry about your seat and put the damn nacho’s down. If that is too hard to do then get the f*ck out and move to France.
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Couldn't have said it better except for the fact that the Lowell Lock Mosters are better [lol]
It pisses me off when they play the National Anthem and some jerkoff behind me is running his gums. By the way, I am a Bruins fan if that helps [lol] .....Boston that is [!]
 
we should go the George Carlin route,
one nation, under the glow of the big electron :P

but seriously , theres no justification for this kind of behavior with brave young American men and women actively fighting and dying for freedom in a foreign land..
 
Welcome aboard, I also go to Lowell games once in a while (to watch the P-Bruins put the hurt on them [wink] ). But I always hit the Lowell Brewery first...that place is awsome.
 
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