EVERY SHOOTER Should Get a C&R FFL!

I'll repost my C&R nightmare.

Brief summary:

Sent in renewal app mid-November, CC was charged mid-December, two weeks after the license expired. I can only assume my paperwork got lost. I get a nasty letter from ATF paper pusher saying because I sent the renewal in after the license expired (
icon_smile_angry.gif
) I need to send her another form within one month or she'll deep six the whole process. ATF gets paperwork within one week of that letter, around mid January. And here we are...
 
Sounds like the ATF is a mess when it comes to incoming mail. For my lost paper work, I have no idea where it ended up. I could get charged at any time if they ever find it and think it's a new application or it could be in the hands of some random person who can see all of my personal information. I even signed up for credit monitoring because of what was on it. [hmmm]
 
Received a letter today asking for "final disposition of charges" from the court system for a criminal charge I had back in 06. Apparently it's not in the NCIC database. This is probably why I get delayed every time I make a firearms purchase.. Since there was no penalty of a year or more in prison for the charge, this shouldn't even matter, not sure why it's being requested. PITA, off to the court system to get the documentation Tuesday.

For Reference, my check was deposited on March 20th, and this letter was dated April 9th. The documentation needs to be sent to West Virginia, so hopefully I don't need to wait out the full rotation!
 
I'll repost my C&R nightmare.

Brief summary:

Sent in renewal app mid-November, CC was charged mid-December, two weeks after the license expired. I can only assume my paperwork got lost. I get a nasty letter from ATF paper pusher saying because I sent the renewal in after the license expired (
icon_smile_angry.gif
) I need to send her another form within one month or she'll deep six the whole process. ATF gets paperwork within one week of that letter, around mid January. And here we are...

Not so bad, new Bound Book now.
 
We don't use FA-10 in CT. We have something called a DPS-3 that goes to the local PD when a retail sale goes through but not a private one. I guess I would have to submit one of those.

Oops, sorry, didn't notice your location.

PM'd dcmdon to respond, as he's the resident CT law guru.
 
We don't use FA-10 in CT. We have something called a DPS-3 that goes to the local PD when a retail sale goes through but not a private one. I guess I would have to submit one of those.

A DPS-3 is not just for retail sales. It was mandatory for handgun transfers and optional for long gun transfers between non-licensees also. Any time you do get an authoirzation number, you do a DPS-3.

I apologize for my lack of insight into the new statute. Here is a link to it if anyone wants to do the research:

AN ACT CONCERNING GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND CHILDREN'S SAFETY.

Remember, in general though that a C&R does not get you much in CT other than the ability to buy and sell C&R firearms through the mail. No CT law ever refers to a FFL. It always refers to either a "dealer" which means a CONNECTICUT licensed firearms dealer, or a manufacturer, which is a reference to a federally licensed (07 FFL) manufacturer.

So here are the areas I'm still fuzzy on:

1) must all secondary sales go through dealers or can the new mandatory NICS check be done without a dealer?
2) long gun transfers used to be able to be done at arms length. you give me the gun, I give you the money. The new statute requires a NICS check. Must it be done by a dealer?

I apologize for my ignorance there. I'll get fully up to speed. I gave a pistol permit class today that included several long time hunters and they were peppering me with questions on the new law I didn't know the answer to. I hate having to say "I'll have to get back to you on that".

Don

In my mind, the biggest deal about a C&R is it:

1) is necessary if you are a MASS resident , for a MG permit
2) It gets you dealer discounts at Brownells.
3) it gets you a dealer discount on non-firearms at Rock River Arms. (That includes built uppers. Everything but firearms and lowers)

Midway sucks, the stuff is discounted but shipping becomes ridiculous for smaller orders.
 
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How much is the discount at RRA? I just applied for my C&R today and I'm going to be buying an upper soon - is it worth it to wait until my C&R comes through or is it a nice discount but nothing to wait 2-3 months over?
 
Its the same discount dealers get.

How do I know? I had a C&R FFL before I got my manufacturers FFL and the pricing didn't change when I got the 07 FFL. Of course I could then buy lowers and complete firearms, nothing else was affected.

Don
 
Received my C&R yesterday, took about 2 months. All I received was the license in an envelope. Is there suppose to be more coming or is that it? Now I need to buy something and I mean soon.
 
FFL Time Update.
I sent in my FFL form on March 1st. They pulled the money from my account on March 15th. On April 15th, I received a letter that I had not filled the form out correctly. The letter was dated April 10th. In section 14 of the form, I checked all boxes, but I did NOT initial them. I wonder how many other people do that? Anyway, On April 16th, I sent the initialed form back. I received the FFL license today, 4/24/13. All in all, less than 2 months turn around which I think is pretty good considering the government is broke!
 
FFL Time Update.
I sent in my FFL form on March 1st. They pulled the money from my account on March 15th. On April 15th, I received a letter that I had not filled the form out correctly. The letter was dated April 10th. In section 14 of the form, I checked all boxes, but I did NOT initial them. I wonder how many other people do that? Anyway, On April 16th, I sent the initialed form back. I received the FFL license today, 4/24/13. All in all, less than 2 months turn around which I think is pretty good considering the government is broke!

Its also nice that when you sent the corrected form back, they appear to have put you right back at the front of the line.

Don
 
Here's a C&R question. Or rather, a series.

1. Am I required to put all my firearms that qualify as C&R into my bound book? Including items I already own? How about items I buy in the future, but not through means requiring a C&R, i.e., FTF sale?

2. If I am not required to do so and it is optional, what are the arguments for or against adding something to my bound book?
 
You do not have to put already owned firearms into the book.

You only need to put something into the book if you make use of the "privileges" associated with the C&R.

So if you have Aim Surplus ship you a Nagant, then you are using your C&R and it needs to be booked in.

If you buy a Nagant at 4 Seasons, then it is a standard retail purchase and does not have to be logged into your A&D book.

Don
 
Don, partially Not true.

It is you/me/him that is licensed not the purchase. As a "licensee" (Fed definition here), we agree to certain obligations. One of them is to list ALL C&R guns that come into (or go out of) our possession during the time we hold the C&R FFL. If you buy/obtain it by any means and it fits the definition of curio or relic, it MUST go in the BB. When you dispose of a previously owned C&R gun, you then put it in the BB (and not it came from your "personal collection, previously acquired").

If you doubt me, and I expect you will, call your BATFE contact in CT or MA and ask him/her.
 
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to putting my existing C&R eligible items in the book? I'm unlikely to ever sell any of the things that already exist in my collection as they are mostly family guns, so would I want to put them in my bound book?
 
Don, partially Not true.

It is you/me/him that is licensed not the purchase. As a "licensee" (Fed definition here), we agree to certain obligations. One of them is to list ALL C&R guns that come into (or go out of) our possession during the time we hold the C&R FFL. If you buy/obtain it by any means and it fits the definition of curio or relic, it MUST go in the BB. When you dispose of a previously owned C&R gun, you then put it in the BB (and not it came from your "personal collection, previously acquired").

If you doubt me, and I expect you will, call your BATFE contact in CT or MA and ask him/her.

I'll give them a call Mon. There has been a lot of back and forth about that. Unfortunately, what I will get from the BaTFE is just one investigator's opinion. It would be nice if they wrote some of this stuff down!!!

As an 07 whose FFL is in my name, not a corporate name, I can still buy firearms that are not in my A&D book. If I buy retail and a 4473 is done, then its sold into my personal collection. If I want to move something out of the A&D book and into my personal collection, a 4473 is not required, but I must do a NICS check on myself and complete any paperwork required by the state I'm in.
 
As Len stated above, only C&R items acquired or disposed of while licensed are required to be entered in your bound book.

One disadvantage of otherwise adding them to your bound book is having to present them for inspection in the case of an audit.
 
so, all you need is to put in the book is guns you bought with your C&R license ? Just have the sales receit date of item that was purchased after the date of your FFL? I already have stuff older than 50 yrs, but not purchased with a C&R. ( when I get it).... guess I better dig into the laws.
 
Uncle Griz

Just to clarify. What len and Kevlar have said is that if you buy ANY C&R firearm, even if you didn't buy it with your C&R license. (lets say you just happened to see one at a gun shop you liked and did a standard retail sale with a 4473 and a NICS check) you still have to put it in your bound book.

What I said, was that unless you actually used your C&R FFL to buy the item, you don't have to put it in your book. Len and Kevlar disagree with me, and they are probably right. I'm probably wrong. But I'll bounce it off my friendly local ATF agent on Monday. I'll also ask her to cite the regulation. She's good about looking that stuff up for me.

What we all agree on is that you do NOT have to enter items that you already own that are C&R items.

Don
 
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