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Ever get shafted by a fellow NESer?

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I've had plenty of people say they want to buy something and then vanish into thin air, including one guy recently who told me he had cash in hand for my AR as soon as I could meet him and then said needed to learn more about guns before buying it. But I don't consider that shafted, just irritated.
Correct. In my view, there is a big difference between some problem or glitch that irritates you (or even irritates you a lot) and being brutally shafted. [thinking] The latter has never (well, not yet) happened to me.

I've made many successful buys (more than my feedback suggests) but the big challenge in my view is buyer and seller ethics... and simple respect and politeness. And it's not just with nubes, non-greens and nutcases. A few very experienced sellers here could use a remedial lesson or two in communication and selling ethics. [hmmm]
 

Lopro

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Out of 43 deals only one was bad , gave him negative rating , I would say that's says a lot about people on NES .
 

Cuz

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Most transactions have gone extremely well and have met some nice people. Biggest irritation from my standpoint is the people who buy and expect you to deliver to them.

There was one guy who asked if he could break down the pistol and look at it and I said "sure go ahead". He took the slide off, ran a white napkin into the grooves on the frame, pulled the napkin out and said "don't you clean your guns???" I answered "Yes I do and that one is clean." He offered me $100 less than the agreed up price because of the "condition.

I said "thanks but no thanks" and took the gun back. As I was leaving he called my back and offered me the agreed upon price. I took it but to be honest if it happened today I'd walk away.
If this had happened to me I would have told the buyer the price just went UP $25 because he's a jerk.


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kmanick

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so far so good , I've bought three times and sold once. All good transaction s(and met some cool people along the way)
 
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Also in business until cash is exchanged anyone has every right to back out or change the terms of the deal. Just because I went to the dealership and agreed to pay $25,000 for said car doesn't mean I actually have to buy it until I sign the papers and take delivery of it. If a better deal comes along or I realize that the car isn't worth it I have every right to back out. That is just business.
Statute of frauds requires a contract for the sale of goods $500 or more to be in writing. An acceptance of an offer for the sale of goods for $500 or more does not bind either party until the agreement with all essential terms are in writing and signed by the party who is sought to be bound by the contract.

This is not necessarily true. Once you have offer and acceptance the party backing out can be liable for amounts suffered or spent by the other side in reliance on the deal. Not to mention that breaching a deal is just shitty behavior in most cases.
In this type of case for a single transaction, it would be hard to argue justified reliance when there is no written agreement. On the other hand, if there had been an established course of dealing between the parties, that may change things.
 

Dennis in MA

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In my opinion, AWOL's happen. But that guy that promises to buy, or pesters you to hold something for him for payday, then either disappears AFTER payday or tries to negotiate further discounts - that man needs a beating.

Hasn't happened here. Happened twice on a knife forum. Second time, the guy BEGGED me to hold it. Then turned and sold the knife the next week, asking for more than he paid. After making me wait almost a month b/c I felt bad for the guy.
 

drgrant

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Most transactions have gone extremely well and have met some nice people. Biggest irritation from my standpoint is the people who buy and expect you to deliver to them.

There was one guy who asked if he could break down the pistol and look at it and I said "sure go ahead". He took the slide off, ran a white napkin into the grooves on the frame, pulled the napkin out and said "don't you clean your guns???" I answered "Yes I do and that one is clean." He offered me $100 less than the agreed up price because of the "condition.

I said "thanks but no thanks" and took the gun back. As I was leaving he called my back and offered me the agreed upon price. I took it but to be honest if it happened today I'd walk away.
I would have said "sorry ,you blew it, I have like t least 3 people lined up who will pay my price without doing anything other than checking the serial number to make sure it matches the paperwork we're putting in. " People like that are usually a problem.

I once sold one of my radios to a douchebag in NH like that, never, ever again. Guy wasn't a problem afterwards but he was just an insulting prick, and the bastard had me over a barrel because at the time, "I needed the money yesterday." ****er whined about the radio being unlocked and "having corrosion on the inside" which was a bunch of horse shit. Meanwhile I knew that if I had an extra week to sell the radio I could have gotten what I was asking no problem, I just didn't have enough time for that. ****ing skinflints.

-Mike
 

bfm

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I had someone sell out from under an agreed deal. He has lots of good feedback didn't seem like it was worth any action. He still is dealing but not with me.
I have had the same. Agreed on price, started discussing the when and where, to then be told it already sold. If it was "already" sold why did we agree on a price and begin to discuss the rest of the details.
 

PaulR

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I got shafted by a dealer here on a rifle group buy.
When I asked him about it he claims I picked up the rifle when I never did.
Sent him emails/pm's actual letters over the past 2 years now, no response.
Sending him a certified small claims letter soon.
I never outed him/mentioned it here at all because I took many months, now into years to persue the issue, I figured the NES regulars would just lambaste me. But still, what's right is right, I'd like to get my money back.
 
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Machines

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I got shafted by a dealer here on a rifle group buy.
When I asked him about it he claims I picked up the rifle when I never did.
Sent him emails/pm's actual letters over the past 2 years now, no response.
Sending him a certified small claims letter soon.
I never outed him/mentioned it here at all because I took many months, now into years to persue the issue, I figured the NES regulars would just lambaste me. But still, what's right is right, I'd like to get my money back.
Two years? I would have outed that guy as soon as he said he didn't have my gun and cut contact.
 

ScottS

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If this had happened to me I would have told the buyer the price just went UP $25 because he's a jerk.

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Is the objective to sell the gun, or to make a point? If the objective is to sell the gun, then walk back and sell the gun.

Too many people let emotions get wrapped up in business transactions, and lose sight of the objective.
 

Dennis in MA

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Rifle group buy??? I'm not usually one to threaten governmental action, but I'd be fitting in some choice letters. Perhaps an A along with a T and an F.
 
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To give the other side of a deal that could have gone bad. I was the buyer. The seller and I made a plan to meet, each of us driving around an hour. The day before I texted/messaged to confirm time and place. Heard nothing. Morning of same thing. I figured the seller flaked. Fast forward to the meetup time and I get a message from a strange number. The guy was waiting for me - turns out he had lost his phone. I got down there as fast as I could the deal turned out fine. Stuff happens. In my experience armslist isnt even that bad and guys on here are way less flaky

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ridleyman

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Is the objective to sell the gun, or to make a point? If the objective is to sell the gun, then walk back and sell the gun.

Too many people let emotions get wrapped up in business transactions, and lose sight of the objective.
emotions and one's sense of dignity are wrapped up in everything we do. that doesn't mean I'll demand a duel if somebody calls me a bitch.
 
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In this type of case for a single transaction, it would be hard to argue justified reliance when there is no written agreement. On the other hand, if there had been an established course of dealing between the parties, that may change things.
The written agreement could be the exchange of PMs. If it's all oral then yeah, good luck in court.

This is all an academic discussion of course anyway. I could come up with scenarios where the reliance was there and known/foreseeable ("As discussed I'm signing papers on Tuesday to remortgage my house so I can afford your Python, so let's meet in the WalMart parking lot to do the swap on Wednesday."), but they're all ridiculous. My point was that the statement about being able to freely back out of any agreed transaction pre-consummation without consequence is inaccurate. Almost more importantly, it's just a douchebag move.
 

drgrant

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Is the objective to sell the gun, or to make a point? If the objective is to sell the gun, then walk back and sell the gun.

Too many people let emotions get wrapped up in business transactions, and lose sight of the objective.
I guess, but do you really want to sell a gun to someone who is potentially a problem? I don't. I guess it depends on the circumstances. Someone does white glove test on a commodity gun and then whines about it, I'm probably going to nope the **** out of that deal, particularly if I have other leads.

-Mike
 
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bfm

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Is the objective to sell the gun, or to make a point? If the objective is to sell the gun, then walk back and sell the gun.

Too many people let emotions get wrapped up in business transactions, and lose sight of the objective.
Not so much emotions as not condoning the behavior. I let someone talk me down once on a sale (not here) because of the time and effort involved in the meeting in the first place and I have never let it happen again and have walked several times. I will sell to someone who actually honors their commitments even if it costs me some time.

Same with the earlier post that it is not a deal until the money changes hands. If you and I agree on a price and you say it is mine come and get it, I assume it is mine and if you back out after that point, even if the meeting is not until the next day, I will not buy from or sell to you ever as I just do not want to condone the activity. If your for sale actually says first person to get to 123 Main street with $500 gets it, that is one thing, if you and I talk and agree on a price and I say I will be there right after work tomorrow with cash and you say ok, it is another. Was there anything illegal about it? Not at all. But I still will not deal with anyone who backs out or renegotiates after both sides agree.

I will make exceptions for act of God level issues. There was a person on a different forum who was in an car accident the day before we were meeting up, they had posted pictures, and it was a part for that car that they were buying. I completely understood they no longer needed the part. No hard feelings and they did buy something else from me a while later.
 
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The written agreement could be the exchange of PMs.
This is correct.

With regard to consideration (payment), the consideration does not have to have exchanged hands in order for the contract to be enforceable (in fact that is typically the subject of a contract dispute), it is merely a requirement that must be contained within the offer and acceptance that makes the acceptance binding. Without consideration, you simply have a non-binding promise of a gift.

First year contracts is interesting if you have the right professor. Mine was former in house counsel for TaylorMade.
 
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ScottS

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I guess, but do you really want to sell a gun to someone who is potentially a problem? I don't. I guess it depends on the circumstances. Someone does white glove test on a commodity gun and then whines about it, I'm probably going to nope the **** out of that deal, particularly if I have other leads.


-Mike
True, but I don't have "after sale support." Done, and done. I can stop answering email/block numbers after the sale if need be.

You make a good point about "problem customers" if you're in a position where you have to keep up,a relationship. Best if you can weed them out. I particularly like your idea of using a phone call to screen the flakes.

Too many people get all emotional over business transactions. "No lowballs!" "Don't even bother offering me less!" WTF? It's just business. The exchange of goods for like value.
 

CrackPot

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Since it's a dealer he has to have a written record of selling it to you in his bound book including your name, LTC and the NICS transaction number. When he can't produce those...



I got shafted by a dealer here on a rifle group buy.
When I asked him about it he claims I picked up the rifle when I never did.
Sent him emails/pm's actual letters over the past 2 years now, no response.
Sending him a certified small claims letter soon.
I never outed him/mentioned it here at all because I took many months, now into years to persue the issue, I figured the NES regulars would just lambaste me. But still, what's right is right, I'd like to get my money back.



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True, but I don't have "after sale support." Done, and done. I can stop answering email/block numbers after the sale if need be.
I suspect a nut job that feels wronged by a deal could easily track you down after the fact. Good luck explaining that you don't have "after sale support."
 

drgrant

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True, but I don't have "after sale support." Done, and done. I can stop answering email/block numbers after the sale if need be.

You make a good point about "problem customers" if you're in a position where you have to keep up,a relationship. Best if you can weed them out. I particularly like your idea of using a phone call to screen the flakes.

Too many people get all emotional over business transactions. "No lowballs!" "Don't even bother offering me less!" WTF? It's just business. The exchange of goods for like value.
The "no lowballs" stuff is funny when the seller refuses to just go firm instead, lol like when you put an OBO after the add what do you think people are going to do?

If people just put effort into pricing the item appropriately they wouldn't even have to deal with negotiation.

-Mike
 

Machines

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"No lowballs!" usually means "I'm asking $50 more than Four Seasons and $150 more than Gunbroker."

Although I get where they're coming from, since every time I put a gun up for sale some comedian PMs me saying "I don't like the gun and it's not worth anything to me, but I'll give you $100 because I'm a Nice Guy if you can't sell it for $450."
 

bfm

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Too many people get all emotional over business transactions. "No lowballs!" "Don't even bother offering me less!" WTF? It's just business. The exchange of goods for like value.
I have accepted offers on items that were not moving, though in general I post things at very reasonable prices and am not sure I have ever had to bump more than once. I have seen people who bought from me flip for a profit weeks later. that is fine, if I want it to move and move now I will do that.

But that is the time to make the offer. Not after I went half an hour out of my way to meet you with an item we already agreed on the price of.
 

daekken

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I once won an ebay auction and paid for the item, did not hear from seller for a week.
He then messaged me to say he was injured skydiving.

Not sure if I believe it since the item was supposed to be new but obviously wasn't.
 

Machines

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I once won an ebay auction and paid for the item, did not hear from seller for a week.
He then messaged me to say he was injured skydiving.

Not sure if I believe it since the item was supposed to be new but obviously wasn't.
I sold something on eBay to a dead guy once. Auction ended, I got paid, I shipped out. A few weeks later I emailed him to make sure it arrived OK and I got an email back saying "this is xxx's father, he died of liver failure on <date I shipped the item.>" Gave me the willies.
 

Horrible

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Never had any issues selling to anyone on NES. There are always tire kickers and low-ballers. Same as selling on Craig's List (although less crazies on NES).

I have bought and sold items from a lot of good folks in the NES community.
 
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