Estimates on P365 Time to Mass Roster

D74

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Guys/Gals,
I'm in DC with a newly minted CCL and we use Cali, Md. and Ma. rosters for our approved handguns. Other than threaded barrels and >10 round mags anything that makes it onto any one of those lists is ok. This usually defaults to Maryland since it is the broadest list. But very often a handguns by major makers make it onto Mass. roster quite some time before they get onto Maryland roster. For example P320 was on Mass roster months before Maryland roster, and M&P Shield M2.0 has been on Mass roster for a while and is not on Maryland Roster yet, and the fact that it is not submitted means at likely another three to six months, since there is a minimum 30 day comment period even after approval. We don't use your AG criteria, just your roster. EG a Shield 2.0 with normal trigger and no external safety is ok for non-LEO to buy new her by virtue of it being on Mass roster.

So any estimates based on history, informed guesses as to how long for Mass roster for the P365? Does Sig tend to submit their releases right away?

thanks!
 
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There is no way to know for sure. Your best estimate will be to see how long the 320 took from release to being added to the roster and guess it will be around that long. It's interesting that DC uses that combination of rosters. I guess that means you guys can buy glocks there that we can't (easily)
 
Thanks so much. Yeah in DC we can have any glock that is not full auto, as long as it has no threaded barrel and no mags over 10 rounds.

We can have Glocks with any trigger weight because Md has them on their roster. Even if Md did not have them on their roster we could have them because they are on your Mass roster, and DC does not use your additional AG prohibitions/conditions

I called Sig to see if I could find out if they have or plan to have it Mass or Maryland roster soon. They kept talking about not having the Mass trigger and did not seem to understand I was only talking about roster, not AG and "Mass compliant version."
 
They kept talking about not having the Mass trigger and did not seem to understand I was only talking about roster, not AG and "Mass compliant version."

Can I, say, buy one in New Hampshire and bring back to Mass (where I live) as long as its on the roster? Or buy out of state via website or in-state via private sale as long as it's on the roster? "Mass Compliant" being only necessary for retailers in Mass, correct?

Thx
 
Can I, say, buy one in New Hampshire and bring back to Mass (where I live) as long as its on the roster? Or buy out of state via website or in-state via private sale as long as it's on the roster? "Mass Compliant" being only necessary for retailers in Mass, correct?

Thx
Federal law only allows long guns to be bought across state lines. You must be a resident of nh for this to work.
 
Can I, say, buy one in New Hampshire and bring back to Mass (where I live) as long as its on the roster?

You can not bring it back yourself however you can have it shipped to an FFL here in Mass to transfer to you. Only of course if it is legal to do so.

Or buy out of state via website or in-state via private sale as long as it's on the roster? "Mass Compliant" being only necessary for retailers in Mass, correct?

In Mass you can buy anything in-state via private transfer - no requirement that it be on the roster.
 
Other than being an out of state resident, then moving into MA with it and going through all the loop holes of acquiring a LTC there there is no real way to get it in the short term. Speaking of short term, this is pretty much everyone's reaction (that live outside MA) when I tell them about a "list"
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Guys/Gals,
I'm in DC with a newly minted CCL and we use Cali, Md. and Ma. rosters for our approved handguns. Other than threaded barrels and >10 round mags anything that makes it onto any one of those lists is ok. This usually defaults to Maryland since it is the broadest list. But very often a handguns by major makers make it onto Mass. roster quite some time before they get onto Maryland roster. For example P320 was on Mass roster months before Maryland roster, and M&P Shield M2.0 has been on Mass roster for a while and is not on Maryland Roster yet, and the fact that it is not submitted means at likely another three to six months, since there is a minimum 30 day comment period even after approval. We don't use your AG criteria, just your roster. EG a Shield 2.0 with normal trigger and no external safety is ok for non-LEO to buy new her by virtue of it being on Mass roster.

So any estimates based on history, informed guesses as to how long for Mass roster for the P365? Does Sig tend to submit their releases right away?

thanks!

stop caring about MA compliance and start looking for the gun once it starts showing up on gunbroker or similar.

Compliance isn't relevant. A dealer willing to get it to you, by any means, IS.

-Mike
 
Shit, now that I re-read your post... you're stuck in DC. So that means.... only Sykes can get you a handgun unless you have a residency wall hack somewhere else. (but even at that point, I don't think you can even bring a gun into that city without registering it... )

In that case figure 6 months to a year assuming that Sig is intending on submitting the gun for testing and then approval by EOPS, which then in turn publishes a list quarterly if any new guns are added to it. If Sig was on the ball the gun could get on the roster by April or May (or whenever they release it) but a lot of them lag, and Sig also occasionally gets retarded WRT it thinks is required for compliance. Which also causes lag by itself. (whereas other manufs, just submit the base model no special MA bs... etc) like S&W does.

-Mike
 
guys thanks for the answers. To be clear DC cares about whether or not it is on one of the three rosters. Cali is now irrelevant since modern guns are not making it to their roster.

Mass roster is generally slightly smaller than Maryland roster, but sometimes a gun will make it to yours first as your roster appears be to makers sending guns to a third party lab, getting certified and then getting on the roster, whereas Maryland involves sending it to a Maryland government board which then contracts that testing itself. An example of a gun on mass Roster very quickly and not yet on Maryland roster, would be the S&W M&P shield M2.0.

In one way your additional Attorney General requirements don't matter since DC does not use them for approval of a handgun, just your roster. in another way your AG requirements, as well as your may issue/no issue carry laws are relevant because the gun makers know that without a >10lb trigger, and without a model with a safety or mag disconnect, the sales market for their gun is going to be a fraction of normal, since your roster but no AG compliance would mean (mostly) only LEO. so they might not be in a hurry for a small market.

In my case having an alternate address, or if moving in, already owning an off-roster handgun, would not be helpful since both tthe FFL -- and the police with whom all handguns possessed (at home or for carry)must be registered -- must determine it is on a roster. If I was moving from Pa. to DC, or if I lived in Va and wanted to keep a handgun a business address in DC, in both cases I would not need to pass any gun I owned through DC's FFL, but I would have to register any I possessed in DC with the DC MPD, and they would have to appear on one of the three (Cali., Ma., Md.) roster to do so.

I've called Sig twice. Despite have very friendly phone skills, and being an owner of other Sigs, they are are not even telling me if it is submitted or if there are any plans to do so soon. They keep telling me they don't have the trigger or safety for Mass, when that would not be the issue to sell to your LEO market, and is irrelevant to Maryland roster. I've explained lots of glocks are on your roster without that trigger or safeties.
 
In order to be MA compliant a handgun must either have an external safety or a 10+ lb. trigger pull. For example, a SA/DA gun would have no safety but when in DA mode would have a 10 lb. trigger pull therefore it passes the test. There are Glocks on the MA compliant roster, but from what my FFL tells me they have to have been manufactured prior to 10/21/98 when the ban went into place. Newer Glocks can only be sold to LE's. Since the P365 lacks an external safety and has a trigger pull under 10 lbs., and by definition was manufactured after 1998, they do not meet MA compliancy. Keep in mind also that just because a gun is on the MA roster doesn't mean an FFL can legally sell it to you. That would be far too simple and make way too much sense.

But to underscore what some other posts have said, it's actually not illegal to buy a non MA-compliant handgun, it's just illegal for an FFL to sell one (and they can lose their license if caught). Some FFL's have higher risk tolerances, and then of course private sales can be done completely without an FFL so there is always the opportunity to get something that way. I just picked up a CZ P10, which will never ever be on the MA compliance roster.
 
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In order to be MA compliant a handgun must either have an external safety or a 10+ lb. trigger pull. For example, a SA/DA gun would have no safety but when in DA mode would have a 10 lb. trigger pull therefore it passes the test. There are Glocks on the MA compliant roster, but from what my FFL tells me they have to have been manufactured prior to 10/21/98 when the ban went into place. Newer Glocks can only be sold to LE's. Since the P365 lacks an external safety and has a trigger pull under 10 lbs., and by definition was manufactured after 1998, they do not meet MA compliancy. Keep in mind also that just because a gun is on the MA roster doesn't mean an FFL can legally sell it to you. That would be far too simple and make way too much sense.


That post begs for clarity......There are no handguns in mass that you cannot buy unless they fall under the definition of an assault weapon. Every other handgun excluding assault pistols (kriss vector, scorpion etc) are legal. You just cannot buy from a ffl directly unless they are on the AG list.
 
That post begs for clarity......There are no handguns in mass that you cannot buy unless they fall under the definition of an assault weapon. Every other handgun excluding assault pistols (kriss vector, scorpion etc) are legal. You just cannot buy from a ffl directly unless they are on the AG list.

Agreed, I had actually planned to mention that in my post but got distracted.
 
That post begs for clarity......There are no handguns in mass that you cannot buy unless they fall under the definition of an assault weapon. Every other handgun excluding assault pistols (kriss vector, scorpion etc) are legal. You just cannot buy from a ffl directly unless they are on the AG list.
Correct except there is NO AG List . . . never has been and never will be such a list.

The EOPS List is MGL and carries criminal penalties for the dealer. The "AG Regs" are strictly civil and carry only a $$ fine for the dealer.
 
I appreciate the clarification for Mass residents re roster vs AG and other requirements vs new sales through FFL vs non ffl, v after purchase changes.

My point had to do with residents of another jurisdiction that uses only mass roster aspect of your approved handguns. In my case the only important criteria is whether it is on the Mass roster.

I did give Sig another call, got through to their actual state compliance office, and they say they have sent it out for Mass roster approval. As I suspected from historic timing of other Sig and S&W guns, which tend to go to the Mass roster before to the Maryland roster (it has not been sent to maryalnd roster board yet). I would guess it will be on Mass roster in spring, and while it likely will not be on Maryland roster until summer, and Cali roster never.

Maryland roster and approval system:
Downside: considerably slower process, state done testing
Upsides: a lot more approved handguns, few/no additional criteria, ability for resident or non resident to send a single example in for testing by board

Mass roster and approval:
Downside: more narrow overall due to additional non roster restrictions
Upside: faster, manufacturers send to their own chosen testing company

Cali:
Slower, WAY more narrow, microstamping, lots of criteria that eliminate most modern firearms

DC:
upside: can use any of above rosters
downside: additional restrictions of no threaded barrels on pistols, no mags over 10 rounds, all new purchase of handguns must go through FFL at $125 (roughly a $85 premium)
 
Wow, this is so funny. I’m applying for a DC nonresident CCW and was wondering the exact same thing about the P365. Even though I can own one in NJ, it wouldn’t be possible to register in DC since it’s not on any of the 3 rosters. I may end up going for the Shield 2.0
 
Update:

The P365 was submitted to Maryland on March 16th in time for their April 27 meeting. This means approval will be published May 11, and after 30 day comment period legal to sell in Maryland (and DC) on June 11th. Almost no gun made by a major maker submitted has ever been turned down by Maryland board.
http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/Agenda 2018.pdf

The P365 has not yet been submitted at all to Massachusetts roster board for consideration. Mass just today published its latest roster and no P365 was submitted so it wont be on roster for what looks like another quarter at least.
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/04/23/Approved Firearms Roster 04-2018.pdf
 
Update:

The P365 was submitted to Maryland on March 16th in time for their April 27 meeting. This means approval will be published May 11, and after 30 day comment period legal to sell in Maryland (and DC) on June 11th. Almost no gun made by a major maker submitted has ever been turned down by Maryland board.
http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/Agenda 2018.pdf

The P365 has not yet been submitted at all to Massachusetts roster board for consideration. Mass just today published its latest roster and no P365 was submitted so it wont be on roster for what looks like another quarter at least.
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/04/23/Approved Firearms Roster 04-2018.pdf
The Sig rep was in last week and said at least a year for a Mass compliant model. He said they haven't even begin designing a frame with the necessary safety like the compliant P-320C has. Bummer
 
Do yourself a favor and stop caring about compliance. That having been said, the demand for this gun is so high right now that even when I "call up Walter Sobchak" he says he has a
waiting list for these with like 30 people on them...

"You want a toe? I can get you a toe by 3 oclock... a P365 is going to be a little tougher, though.... "

walter-in-restaurant.jpg
 
The Sig rep was in last week and said at least a year for a Mass compliant model. He said they haven't even begin designing a frame with the necessary safety like the compliant P-320C has. Bummer
This is the problem with Sig and how little their reps know, I am not talking about AG compliant model, but rather roster submission, which are two different things. Lots of makers submit models that are not mass "AG complaint" to the roster and they pass the roster tests and are listed on the roster. The Mass roster contains lots of firearms for which there is no "AG compliant" version.
 
This is the problem with Sig and how little their reps know, I am not talking about AG compliant model, but rather roster submission, which are two different things. Lots of makers submit models that are not mass "AG complaint" to the roster and they pass the roster tests and are listed on the roster. The Mass roster contains lots of firearms for which there is no "AG compliant" version.

Yeah but SIG is what I would call "mindlessly obedient" and generally hasn't done that, they have special "M" mass retard/toddler versions of their guns. The part number literally has an M in it. They're not going to waste
testing a P365 when they would rather just test a P365-M or whatever they're going to call it. It's not even necessary for them to do this (under the whole "substantially similar" bit) but their lawyers insist, so thats what they
do...

-Mike
 
Do yourself a favor and stop caring about compliance. That having been said, the demand for this gun is so high right now that even when I "call up Walter Sobchak" he says he has a
waiting list for these with like 30 people on them...

"You want a toe? I can get you a toe by 3 oclock... a P365 is going to be a little tougher, though.... "

View attachment 231259

Interest in the gun is huge. Everyone that comes here wants to check it out and immediately asks when they can get one. Had a couple guys from out of state doing some training @ JBCC call over and ask if they could check it out, both got on pre order lists at their LGS. If it proves to be reliable Sig will sell the crap out of the gun. I've got about 400 rounds through the one I have here and it's eaten everything(FMJ, JHP, reloads) without a hiccup.
 
Well this is great news for anyone (resident or nonresident) wanting to get a P365 for a DC CCW. DC uses all 3 (CA,MA,MD) rosters. So by mid June it should be good.
 
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