Equipment Failures - Randy Cain Tactical Handgun Course

[Len-2A Training]

I'll write up a review of the class and link some pictures later, but quick and dirty I want to pass up some "lessons learned" due to equipment failures.

Of the 10 students, 8 of us were shooting 1911s of some sort, one Glock and one Sig 220.

Randy Cain (Cumberland Tactics, http://www.cumberlandtactics.com/) is a firm believer in NOT adding all sorts of parts (or changing out the recoil system) to 1911s and that since John Moses Browning developed/designed it for a 5" barrel, reliability suffers with a shorter barrel!

These points got driven home by 3 system failures (1911s) while we were in the class. This was 3 days, 24 hours on the range and probably ~600 rds of ammo. The third failure was unknown until I took the gun down to clean it last night.

- K ran into reliability problems with a 4" 1911 and swapped it out for a full-size 1911. Don't recall exactly what her problems were as I was ~5 positions away from her.

- Jim Conway had his mercury recoil rod crack/self-destruct!

- When I took my gun down to clean it, I found that my STI Recoilmaster system had broken, the head had completely broken away from the rod in the plunger mechanism. The gun had still functioned, but I had noticed that it did not always go into battery after a press-check unless I gave it a shove. Now I know why and I've already requested an RMA for a refund from Midway. BTW, the Recoilmaster was Jim Conway's suggestion (thanks Jim [roll] ) and was only bought and installed in mid-April!

Thanks, I believe Randy is right . . . KISS (keep it simple, stupid) and I'm returning to the standard recoil rod and spring system as it was supposed to be!

 

[M1911]

- K ran into reliability problems with a 4" 1911 and swapped it out for a full-size 1911. Don't recall exactly what her problems were as I was ~5 positions away from her.

I was all the way at the other end of the firing line, so my knowledge of exactly what happened is limited. IIRC, however, she had a failure to feed which she cleared (with some effort) and then changed to her full-size gun. I think that she had just started to use that gun, so that was her only failure with it. Later that day, when I was collecting brass over near that side of the range, I picked up an unfired round that may have been the culprit. The cartridge case was mangled and looked like it couldn't chamber. The bullet was set back significantly (which might have happened during feeding). If I am correct, then the problem might have been the ammo and not the gun.

My Kimber Compacts have been very, very reliable. You do have to change the recoil spring more often (Kimber recommends every 800 rounds), but I've had no parts failures and very, very few malfunctions. I used my Kimber Compact when I took two concealed carry classes at Sigarms Academy a few years back (5 days total). So I put a lot of rounds through it in a short period of time without any trouble.

In terms of concealment, I disagree when people say that a full-size is as easy to conceal as a compact. For me, that just isn't the case.

First, I find IWB to be uncomfortable (but that's my own fault -- too much food and not enough exercise). Second, when I have carried IWB, I just don't have that much room from waist to bottom to comfortably carry a long barrel gun. The extra inch of barrel actually IS more uncomfortable for me. When carrying OWB, I usually use a Gochenour Extreme High Ride holster from Rusty Sherrick. That holster rides so high that there is very little of the gun below the belt. But because of the short barrel and holster cutout, I can still draw the gun easily. A full-size gun would probably ride too high for that.

While I've had good luck with my Kimber Compacts, I would not try anything with a 3" barrel. I was at a class where one student brought a Para P10. He got lots of repetition on clearing feed failures. I haven't seen many 3" guns, but when I have, their owners generally had problems.

The Commander size doesn't work for me, since it has a full-size butt and that's the part that prints. YMMV. What works for someone else may not work for you.

 

[KMaurer]

The Commander size doesn't work for me, since it has a full-size butt and that's the part that prints. YMMV. What works for someone else may not work for you.

Agreed. I carried a Commander for years, and never had any problem with either the weight or with printing (an advantage of size). On those occassions when I switched to a full-size, there wasn't any difference in concealment, though the extra inch was noticeable to me, though that's probably just because it was "different". I think it's the same with revolvers: it's the butt and cylinder that make most of the difference in concealability, not the barrel length, within reason, of course.

The real key, of course, is your body, your habits, and your wardrobe. How well something does or doesn't work for someone else only gives a tiny hint about how it will work for you. If you think you might like something, try it and see for yourself.

Ken

 

[AndyL]

One 1911 failure, ammo.

Len,

Ks 1911 quit due to ammo. (potential limp wristing too). I just took it out and fired a few rounds through it. It works awesome. (it obviously needs a loose nut behind the gun!!)

 

[dwarven1]

While I've had good luck with my Kimber Compacts, I would not try anything with a 3" barrel. I was at a class where one student brought a Para P10. He got lots of repetition on clearing feed failures.

Odd. I had some problems with my P10 one day, and on Para's advice, shipped it back to them. 3 days later, "my" P10 showed up again, sporting a new reciever. After breakin - about 400 rounds - it's been utterly reliable.

I am selling it, but the reason for that is that I suspect that the 3" barrel's muzzle flash is starting to make me develop a wicked flinch. I bought a P12, with a 3.5' bbl, and I don't flinch nearly as much.

Ross

 

[Nickle]

In my opinion, the BEST way to regulate recoil is through the ammo, not gadgets. This especially applies to any "Big Bore", like the 45. With a 185 or 230 grain bullet, you don't need a whole lot of velocity to put your "target" down at close range.

 

[M1911]

In my opinion, the BEST way to regulate recoil is through the ammo

Agreed. My 230 gr .45 ACP reloads make major, but only just. They don't have a lot of recoil in a full-size 1911.