EPA Now Wrecking Our Ambulances, Fire Trucks

P-14

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Article here.

The EPA is now requiring emergency vehicles to install $30K filters on their new equipment. The filters must be regenerated weekly or the engine will automatically shut down. The dirty notification indicator failed on an ambulance and an heart attack patient died while waiting for another ambulance to take him to the hospital.

EPA has gone full retard on this one.

If you’ve ever been in an ambulance with an injured loved one en route to a hospital, you know there’s only one thought going through your mind: Gosh, I hope this vehicle is emissions-friendly. Fortunately the EPA has taken the lead by requiring ambulances and fire trucks to have cleaner diesel engines.
.....
Not surprisingly, this has caused ambulances and fire trucks to break down at record rates. After a San Diego fire truck went offline at the scene of an emergency, California lawmakers and the International Association of Fire Chiefs’ Southeastern Division got involved. The EPA then approved a rule that gives itself the authority to sanction engine changes to emergency vehicles if requested by the manufacturer. But to take advantage of this, Washington would presumably have to purchase an entirely new fleet of fire trucks and ambulances, a costly endeavor.

If the president wants to constantly remind us how much he cares for first responders, a good first step would be to stop chaining them down with pointless green technologies.
 

calsdad

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Good.

Too many people in this country think that the government is harmless. It's mostly because they simply don't pay attention.

When they start dying and their houses start burning down and the police don't show up because their cars shut off on them - maybe they'll start paying attention.

But I doubt it.

So at that point it's still a good thing - because stupid people DESERVE whatever pain can be introduced into their lives.
 

calsdad

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Emergency Vehicle in the past were exempt from most exhaust regulations. Mass had it in the law that Fire trucks didn't need mufflers.
So apparently they've gone super double retard on this one.

THere were new diesel emission regulations that went into effect a few years back. It affects diesel engines in all sorts of things. I just bought a new Kubota tractor last year that has 32hp. There's been a lot of reports of this model running like crap because of EPA forced emission tuning on the engine. Kubota just came out with a new model tractor this year that has similar HP (over 30) - and apparently because it's a new model - they had to fully comply with the EPA emissions mandate. In order to do this - Kubota had to add a turbo to keep the HP up because the emissions regs suck hp. So now people have to buy a tractor with the turbo and all that added complication and expense just to get what they could have gotten last year without a turbo.

I've read similar stories about how this regulation is going to affect over the road trucks and construction equipment and so forth.

If the firetrucks and ambulances have this technology on them - that means every other truck on the road is going to have to have it too. That means YOU ARE ALL GOING TO PAY HIGHER PRICES - because the cost of transportation of goods comes directly out of YOUR pocket - not the "Company" (as liberals constantly seem to think).

Like I said before - it's plainly obvious that the government induced pain level in this country just simply isn't high enough yet. It NEEDS TO be increased.

I've given up trying to argue logic and principle with most people because it just simply doesn't work - it's a waste of time. It's much more effective to just say to somebody's face: You're an idiot and I hope really bad things happen to you - because when they do you will deserve it and I will laugh in your face and enjoy myself.

This way I get much more enjoyment out of life and people who deserve to be miserable are now even more miserable because they know that somebody out there WANTS them to be miserable and thinks they deserve it.

Stupid is as stupid does.
 
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There's a reason Caterpillar decided to GTFO of the on-highway diesel business. I'm doing my part by running my truck straight piped. Not a damn thing they can do about it as its too old to have to comply with the emissions guidelines. This regeneration shit is a joke, $3000 for a filter cartridge in some cases. If you ignore te re-gen prompts it does indeed shut your truck down and it requires the purchase of a new filter, and a road service call from somebody with your engines software to delete the code.
 

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Wrong. Last year the EPA issued an exemption to the rules. Most agencies don't seem to be aware of it. The 2007 rule applies to all Diesel engines above a certain size, not just emergency vehicles. The exemption applies to emergency vehicles. One of the problems seems to be that emergency vehicles use the required fluid at a much higher rate than non emergency vehicles. Part of the exemption is an advisory on suggested refill intervals for that.

The filters do NOT have to be regenerated every week. The ones used by non emergency vehicles rarely have to be regenerated in fact. The problem with emergency vehicles, especially ambulances, is the duty cycle. Lot's of low speed driving or idling, followed by sudden acceration/deceleration cycles. From experience I can tell you that the vehicles don't generally shut down without warning. The system has three status indicators. One tells you that the system is working properly and is in a cleaning cycle. The second tells you that the system needs to be serviced soon. The third, which is the shut down mode, tells you that you ignored the second light too long. Based on my experience, I'd bet that the crews had either ignored the lights or requested to go into fleet to get the system looked at, but were told by dispatch that it was "too busy".

Fleets that are big enough can buy their own regeneration machine. Smaller fleets have to send the trucks out to the dealer. Medium sized fleets can buy spare units and swap them out. One the GM 4500 trucks, now sadly out of production thanks to Obama and "saving" GM, it's about two hour job to swap that out.

Oh, the guy who died, was shot, not having a heart attack. In fact, he was already dead when the ambulance broke down. I'm not sure why he was transported, but that would be a matter of department policy and their medical protocols. In many cities people who are in cardiac arrest from trauma are not transported to the hospital because the survival rate is about 1%.

For JW, fire trucks were exempt, I think, because way back when the exhaust powered the siren, which was actually a whistle. When I first started in EMS, the old timers referred to the sirens as "whistles". Back when the exemption was put in Ch. 90, the exhaust system was designed to keep down noise and keep exhaust fumes from getting into the passenger areas of vehicles. Emissions is a fairly (35 or so years) new part of the exhaust system.
 

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The only restriction I have on my 6.0 is the resonator, I didn't like the bark, so it stayed. The new Ford 6.7's use a urea solution in that system.
Most of the new diesels use the urea injection system.
Some truckers have already figured out what urea is and refill the tank with the "natural" alternative. [laugh]
 
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All of the new trucks I work on all come with diesel filters standard with regen and all that. Don't want to stand near that exhaust when they are idling on regen unless you prefer your leg scorched. I thought this was going to be about the chevrons on the back of the trucks but those aren't EPA regulated. They are just ugly and super annoying to put on [laugh]
 
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The EPA has Killed Diesel Trucks, and the reliability they were once known for. The emissions systems on diesel engines do nothing but rob the engines of power, engine life,reliability, and fuel economy. It's all smoke (pun intended) and mirrors. The diesels may be producing less "harmful emissions", but they're requiring more fuel, so the fuel refinery runs longer (i.e. more emissions) to keep up with increased demand.

I pulled the cat off my 6.0 and saw an average of ~ 2mpg increase. I've been hearing stories of 3-4mpg increases on the newer trucks with DPFs and Cats.
 
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RHJJ

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The EPA has Killed Diesel Trucks, and the reliability they were once known for. The emissions systems on diesel engines do nothing but rob the engines of power, engine life,reliability, and fuel economy. It's all smoke (pun intended) and mirrors. The diesels may be producing less "harmful emissions", but they're requiring more fuel, so the fuel refinery runs longer (i.e. more emissions) to keep up with increased demand.

I pulled the cat off my 6.0 and saw an average of ~ 2mpg increase. I've been hearing stories of 3-4mpg increases on the newer trucks with DPFs and Cats.
Love my 6.0 but it will be my last diesel pickup, thank's EPA.
 

Garys

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All of the new trucks I work on all come with diesel filters standard with regen and all that. Don't want to stand near that exhaust when they are idling on regen unless you prefer your leg scorched. I thought this was going to be about the chevrons on the back of the trucks but those aren't EPA regulated. They are just ugly and super annoying to put on [laugh]
The Chevrons are probably NFPA. Which is not the government.

And yeah, the exhaust is hot as hell when the regen kicks in. In our ambulances, they actually lit up after we shut the trucks off if we plugged in the shore line. I was surprised that the Plymovent didn't melt.
 

swampy

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When I got my 6.0 in 05 I was getting 23mpg on the highway and I could squeeze out 25mpg if I really tried. Not bad for a 4 door long bed full size 4x4 truck. When the low sulfur fuel hit the pumps my mileage dropped to 18mpg. What is the break even point when the lower mpg puts as much sulfur in the air from more fuel burned? One other problem that arose shortly after the low sulfur fuel came out was the EGR valve went crazy. I replaced mine twice. The ambulances we had at work with 6.0 engines had the same EGR issues. I finally unplugged my EGR valve and live with the CE light.
 

Zappa

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When I got my 6.0 in 05 I was getting 23mpg on the highway and I could squeeze out 25mpg if I really tried. Not bad for a 4 door long bed full size 4x4 truck.
Really ???
My company 06' F-350, 6.0L, 4x4, 13,500 GVW dually wrecker never broke 15 mpg.
I'm averaging 13.5 now with 210K on it.
 

Another_David

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Swampy knows best! [smile]

Mechanical Failure Caused D.C. Ambulance Breakdown | NBC4 Washington

Mechanical Failure Caused D.C. Ambulance Breakdown

A transport incident in May is now linked to a fuel filter problem in DC ambulances, and now 32 will undergo repairs.

D.C. Fire and EMS says the breakdown of an ambulance transporting a gunshot victim last month was caused by a mechanical failure.

Tests on the vehicle revealed that a faulty fuel cooler screen malfunctioned, causing the ambulance to automatically shut down along Interstate 295 on May 30. A second ambulance was called, and the victim -- Nathaniel McRae, 34, -- was transferred to a working vehicle within five to seven minutes, Fire and EMS officials said.

"My understanding is the engine was powering down, it didn't shut down," D.C. Fire Deputy Chief John Donnelly said. "The driver followed all of the procedures, he did the exact right thing to do with the warning system."

McRae, a suspect in a carjacking, was pronounced dead at a local hospital. The delay did not contribute to McRae's death, according to D.C. Fire and EMS Deputy Chief John Donnelly.

The city is now having the filters removed from all of their ambulances. The work will be done in phases and will not affect service.

Engineers with Navistar International, the ambulance's manufacturer, have agreed to repair, and pay for, the District's 32 ambulances with the faulty filters.

DCFEMS says the filter is not a part of the EPA required regeneration system, so permission from the EPA is not needed to remove the filters.

D.C. Fire and EMS has come under fire in recent months over ambulance and staffiing issues.
 
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The Chevrons are probably NFPA. Which is not the government.

And yeah, the exhaust is hot as hell when the regen kicks in. In our ambulances, they actually lit up after we shut the trucks off if we plugged in the shore line. I was surprised that the Plymovent didn't melt.
Yeah I think it is NFPA. If we have to run any on regen we just park them way out in the yard and let them run. Don't need the building (or people walking by) catching on fire [laugh]
 

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So it wasn't even the regen system. As I recall, Navistar doesn't use that type of emissions system. At least out Terrastar chassis didn't. I don't know if DC uses the Terrastar, which was designed for ambulance use or the larger Dynastar. In either case, the fuel filter is not part of the emissions system. We had similar problems with our GM 4500 chassis. Diesels are very sensitive to water or other contaminants in the fuel and will shut down if the sensors pick any up.

A couple of years ago we had several ambulances that had this problem. We traced the cause back to a leak in the fuel tank at the main DPW yard on Frontage Road. Actually, I traced it back when we had to turn our regular truck in because it shut down shortly after we fueled there. Two days later, the spare we were in shut down for the exact reason right after we fueled there. The day before we had fueled at the BTD yard on Southhampton Street and had no problem. Three other trucks that fueled at Frontage Road also had the problem. After I told the Fleet Manager what was going on we were all told not to use Frontage Road until it was fixed.

DC has a long history of shoddy maintenance for their ambulances. Two years ago, about half the fleet didn't have AC during July. Temps in the patient module reached 107 degrees. They didn't have enough spare trucks to take all of them out of service. None of this is a surprise to anyone who follows this. DC has a reputation of being the worst run ambulance service in the country.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I think it is NFPA. If we have to run any on regen we just park them way out in the yard and let them run. Don't need the building (or people walking by) catching on fire [laugh]
We usually don't have enough down time to have to worry about parking them. The regen runs while we're driving around.
 

drgrant

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Good.

Too many people in this country think that the government is harmless. It's mostly because they simply don't pay attention.

When they start dying and their houses start burning down and the police don't show up because their cars shut off on them - maybe they'll start paying attention.

But I doubt it.

So at that point it's still a good thing - because stupid people DESERVE whatever pain can be introduced into their lives.
Problem is it will never get sold that way.

It'll be "So and so was on his way to the hospital and golly jeepers the ambulance broke down!" it won't be "so and so was on his way to the hospital and the ambulance stopped running ONLY due to a completely stupid ****ing environazi bullshit regulation. " The 2nd part will get left out to let the tradgedy du jour better fit the narrative. [thinking]

-Mike
 
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