bgoum
NES Member
I hope you gave Santa a very detailed list of the shiny new items you are hoping for. And of course it will come down to the opinion of your accountant of whether you have been a good boy.
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EOPSS Gun Control Advisory Board Meeting 11/2
- Thread starter CAR
- Start date
I hope you gave Santa a very detailed list of the shiny new items you are hoping for. And of course it will come down to the opinion of your accountant of whether you have been a good boy.
Good for them.
The whole mag cap limitation is retarded when you can juts carry an extra mag or two.
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
The agenda form the meeting two weeks ago 9/7/2018
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/09/04/GCAB Open Meeting Notice 9.4.18.pdf
Suprised that testing still hasn’t been offered up for the HK VP9SK.
The addition of the Sig 1911 Ultra Compact will mean it will be easier to get your hands on, although no mention of the .45 version.
1911 Two-Tone Ultra-Compact
:emoji_tiger:
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/09/04/GCAB Open Meeting Notice 9.4.18.pdf
Suprised that testing still hasn’t been offered up for the HK VP9SK.
The addition of the Sig 1911 Ultra Compact will mean it will be easier to get your hands on, although no mention of the .45 version.
1911 Two-Tone Ultra-Compact
:emoji_tiger:
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CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Do not know this was just the agenda, the minutes would show that however.
:emoji_tiger:
My theory is that Harshbarger had a hardon against Glocks and set the precedent and no Dem AG is going to correct his misdeed. I think his idea was if I stop Glocks from being sold in Ma. no other manufacturer will try to sell handguns in Ma. Glock was the 1st popular plastic gun and the Dems went wild claiming the gun wouldn't show up on Xrays at the airport and therefor could be smuggled onto airplanes. I remember the shit show and as usual the Dems looked stupid and incompetent. Allowing new Glocks to be sold in Ma. by Four Seasons would be admitting fault and the fact a Glock is no different from any other polymer handgun.The AG approved the SIG P320(which I own one) and their loaded chamber indicator is basically the same as a Glock's.
CrackPot
NES Member
The AG did not approve anything. They only "disapprove" my sending out nastigrams after the fact once shops start selling something that is on the EOPS list that they dont approve of. Glocks are the only winner of this prize that I am aware of.
The entire process of passively approving and only supplying negative feedback after the fact is a major issue.
Agreed, it is referred to as "regulation through enforcement". Basic process used by dictators and has no place in our society where we have transparent and clear rules of the game.
I am now going to be searching for meeting minutes because i was wondering the same thing.
Here is my prediction:
The firearm was redesigned / modified to fix a fired when dropped issue, wonder if MA wants it retested as it now has different mechanics inside directly related to drops.
This state and the things they worry about......
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I do not think that the minutes of the GCAB meetings are or ever were made public. Probably just filed with EOPS and you'd need a FOIA request to maybe get them.
2 links:
The Open Meeting Law
"Learn about the Open Meeting Law or report a violation with the Attorney General's Division of Open Government."
Frequently asked questions about the Open Meeting Law: meetings, notices and minutes
The Open Meeting Law
"Learn about the Open Meeting Law or report a violation with the Attorney General's Division of Open Government."
Frequently asked questions about the Open Meeting Law: meetings, notices and minutes
I'm very familiar with it and I'm not certain that state groups have to follow the same rules. Per the FAQ you referenced notice must be posted with every town clerk in the "region" affected. If so for state groups it would have to be posted in 351 cities/towns . . . something you'll never see.
Nothing in the FAQ references making minutes easily accessible (without asking for them, to wit posted on a gov't website). I know that most town groups in my town do not post minutes or the last ones you'll find on their website are a year or more old.
Most towns have their minutes easily accessible. Your town sounds like the exception. A LOT of towns use VTH, all of which have an easy place to put minutes. Here's some:
Auburn
Town of Auburn, MA - Minutes & Agendas
Ayer
Minutes & Agendas | Town of Ayer MA
Franklin
Agendas & Minutes | Town of Franklin MA
Mashpee
Error
Northborough
Town of Northborough, MA - Minutes & Agendas
North Attleboro
Minutes & Agendas | North Attleborough MA
Simsbury, CT
Minutes & Agendas | Simsbury CT
Shrewsbury has an entire PUBLIC RECORDS section:
Public Records | Shrewsbury, MA
Woodstock, NH
Minutes & Agendas | Town of Woodstock NH
Auburn
Town of Auburn, MA - Minutes & Agendas
Ayer
Minutes & Agendas | Town of Ayer MA
Franklin
Agendas & Minutes | Town of Franklin MA
Mashpee
Error
Northborough
Town of Northborough, MA - Minutes & Agendas
North Attleboro
Minutes & Agendas | North Attleborough MA
Simsbury, CT
Minutes & Agendas | Simsbury CT
Shrewsbury has an entire PUBLIC RECORDS section:
Public Records | Shrewsbury, MA
Woodstock, NH
Minutes & Agendas | Town of Woodstock NH
coyote33, no our Selectmen post their minutes regularly. Planning Board, ZBA, etc. very rarely post minutes and are usually 1+ year behind and they even have a paid secretary for each board, so no real excuse.
Glockster30
NES Member
Len, this was very true up until about a year or so ago as I tried to get them in the past. They now post the minutes online that don't really say too much other than who voted to approve the different model guns.
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2017/09/zy/GCABMeetingNotice9.22.17.pdf
https://www.mass.gov/doc/gcab-meeting-minutes-09222017/download
Interesting, meeting from march has a link to a minutes doc.
GCAB Open Meeting Notice and Agenda 03/23/2018
I'm truly shocked that any minutes were posted. Good on you for pushing them to do this.
Truth be told, the test labs know their business and if they submit data that it passed, GCAB accepts them. The minutes would indeed be boring to read unless they note issues in discussion about CMRs or other things and they probably would never do that.
Does EOPS have any regulatory authority to remove a gun from the roster?
It started under Harshbarger and was definitely, in part, to save S&W some lost sales.
There were many, many more standard capacity 17rd "ice scraper" mags made pre-1994 for the Sigma that there were Sigma SW9 pistols. They made a metric shit ton of them all at once, expecting popularity and high sales, as well as to feed their affordable Glock clones as they came out of the factory for years to come. Then came the Federal AWB and the Glock lawsuit which forced some design changes... but those mags are all over the place to this day.
You can buy them new in package for <$20 if you look around a bit. They fit right into a new SD9VE which can be had for <$300 new. They also fit in the middle-model SW9s which can be had for rock-bottom prices (considering the NIB price of the most recent and best-yet model). The guns are 40% cheaper than a free state Glock, and the pre-ban mags are readily available and about 75% cheaper.
We were just a captive audience for an ugly duckling (but solid gun) from an in-state manufacturer... and then Glock became the boogie man of the media, and the pols.
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Yes, but they won't usually do that unless there was some error in the original posting to the roster.
Frizzle Fry, I don't know if what you posted was correct or not, but can tell you from personal experience that the first Sigma sucked so bad that I could never see a PD going for it. Trigger was worse than terrible, reliability non existent (mine was a LE sale gun from AAA Police Supply) . . . 5 parts broke in the gun after 2 mags of factory ammo 1st time out to the range. S&W fixed it and I sold it.
100% those guns, the actual Sigmas and early SW9s were absolute trash and those expected PD sales never came.
The middle-model/latest guns are excellent though; a sleeper. The SW9VE was a little bit ugly but a solid shooter. The SD9VE isn't even that ugly suffers mostly from a crappy S&W trigger (like the other S&W semis made today), and residual undeserved reputation issues from the Sigmas... Keep in mind the Harshbarger nonsense started just after the VE series came about, well after the Sigma came and went.
SDVE: S&W’s Hidden Gem – Apex Tactical Specialties
Gun Review: Smith & Wesson SD9 VE - The Truth About Guns
I'm sure a few SD9VE owners will speak up.
I reached out to get the minutes, specifically asking what the discussion was relating to the P320 line item. Here is the response:
"
I haven’t received the draft of the typed meeting minutes from the September meeting yet. We would normally post them after the board votes to approve the minutes at the next meeting.
That said, the agenda item to which you’re referring was added to discuss the attached letter our office received.
"
Thanks for the update.
As for the minutes, actually, even before they are voted to be approved, the draft and or notes are public record. They don't become public record only after being approved.
(of course, Executive Session minutes are different though)
Thanks
zork51
NES Member
When is the NEW list coming out? I've called the Record Bureau a few times recently and was told "anytime now" , the last one was MAY18 as there was a "meeting" of the Gods a few weeks ago. They usually come out every 3 months or so.
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