EOPS Roster Question

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ScottS

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I have a very specific question on the EOPS Approved Firearms Roster.

I'm working with a new want-to-be gun owner in MA, and I have a question on an entry on the Roster. I understand all the advice about "Just find the gun in a store," and "Compliance it not your problem," etc. Got that.

Here's the question: Regarding Glock 19 specifically, the Roster lists "Glock 19," and then "Glock 19 Gen 4" and "Glock 19 Gen 5," etc. To wit:

EOPS.JPG

What does that say regarding a Glock 19 Gen 3? Not approved, because it's not specifically named, as the Gen 4 and Gen 5 are? Or approved generally, as it's a Glock 19, after all?

If we can, this time let's try and avoid the NES-standard "F the EOPS" or "I have a Canik and love it" or "Move to NH" responses. Looking for an answer to a specific Glock 19 question.

Thanks.
 
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IANAL but I do have an idea. The Glock Gen 3, 2, and 1 were not sold with “gen 3” as part of the name whereas Glock gen 4’s and 5’s were. For example if you look up photo’s you’ll see that on the slide of 4’s and 5’s it says “19 gen 4/5” but only “19” is engraved on previous generations. Again, this is just a guess.
 

DarthRevan

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IANAL but I do have an idea. The Glock Gen 3, 2, and 1 were not sold with “gen 3” as part of the name whereas Glock gen 4’s and 5’s were. For example if you look up photo’s you’ll see that on the slide of 4’s and 5’s it says “19 gen 4/5” but only “19” is engraved on previous generations. Again, this is just a guess.
Essentially this... ^
Then there's also the MA AG list that hasn't been updated since 1998 for the public to see...

Also:
"F the EOPSS"
"I have a [Beretta] and love it"
"Move to NH"
 

EJFudd

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IANAL but I do have an idea. The Glock Gen 3, 2, and 1 were not sold with “gen 3” as part of the name whereas Glock gen 4’s and 5’s were. For example if you look up photo’s you’ll see that on the slide of 4’s and 5’s it says “19 gen 4/5” but only “19” is engraved on previous generations. Again, this is just a guess.
This is correct. The first Glock 19 on the list is actually the Gen 3, but it wasn't initially marked Gen 3... hence the way things are listed.
 

drgrant

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I have a very specific question on the EOPS Approved Firearms Roster.

I'm working with a new want-to-be gun owner in MA, and I have a question on an entry on the Roster. I understand all the advice about "Just find the gun in a store," and "Compliance it not your problem," etc. Got that.

Here's the question: Regarding Glock 19 specifically, the Roster lists "Glock 19," and then "Glock 19 Gen 4" and "Glock 19 Gen 5," etc. To wit:

View attachment 400012

What does that say regarding a Glock 19 Gen 3? Not approved, because it's not specifically named, as the Gen 4 and Gen 5 are? Or approved generally, as it's a Glock 19, after all?

If we can, this time let's try and avoid the NES-standard "F the EOPS" or "I have a Canik and love it" or "Move to NH" responses. Looking for an answer to a specific Glock 19 question.

Thanks.

"Substantially Similar" clause is supposed to cover it, but theres a lot of nebulous bullshit involved in that.

Or let me put it this way- nobody is going to get whacked with an "off roster" charge for selling a Glock 19 Gen3.

The AGs regs CMR940 are a whole other ballgame, though.
 

drgrant

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Essentially this... ^
Then there's also the MA AG list that hasn't been updated since 1998 for the public to see...

There is no AG list, it never existed, it never was created. It's just consists of the nebulous bullshit set out in CMR940.

The CMR940 regs in laymans terms are "lets shit on things that are Glocks or Smith & Wesson striker fired handguns" etc.
 

drgrant

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Thanks to all. I think I have enough info to answer the question if it comes up.

Just make sure whoever you tell this to that in reality, they are not going to see handgun compliance with any level of consistency in MA across
dealers. One dealer will say X. Another will say Y. And potentially Z is "right." I would instruct them not to actually get too concerned with handgun
compliance at all, because it's literally not their problem. Tell them that they should not be scared of some gun "getting them in trouble" because its not on
the roster, or this or that.
 

Len-2A Training

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No Glock mfd AFTER 10/21/1998 meets the AG's regs, so they can't be transferred legally by a MA Dealer. Thus, the fact that they are on the EOPS Roster at all only helps LEOs (exempt from AG Regs but not exempt from the EOPS Roster) who want to purchase personally owned Glocks.

ETA: Corrected my error above.
 
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Reptile

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No Glock mfd prior to 10/21/1998 meets the AG's regs, so they can't be transferred legally by a MA Dealer. Thus, the fact that they are on the EOPS Roster at all only helps LEOs (exempt from AG Regs but not exempt from the EOPS Roster) who want to purchase personally owned Glocks.
I thin you meant to say...

No Glock mfd AFTER meets AG requirements.

Because Glocks mfd before 10/1998 are exempt.
 

ScottS

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Just do what I did and go Littleton and get a brand new glock. Not sure why its so hard to figure out
Nice gun.
When she shot my Gen 3 Glock 19 and asked me "Is this particular gun on the EOPS Approved Roster?" I wanted to be able to answer that specific question without starting a paragraph on what to ignore or what to buy instead. Not sure why it's so hard to figure out.
 

CrackPot

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Nice gun.
When she shot my Gen 3 Glock 19 and asked me "Is this particular gun on the EOPS Approved Roster?" I wanted to be able to answer that specific question without starting a paragraph on what to ignore or what to buy instead. Not sure why it's so hard to figure out.
Because part of educating a new gun owner is to help them learn what matters and what does not. The Roster does not matter even in the smallest bit to gun owners, only to gun dealers. That is a valid service you could supply to this new owner. Any other answer is perpetuating misinformation.
 

greencobra

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i know the question was answered but wasn't this bs over the extractor with the loaded indicator bump that was introduced on gen 3's? it was originally approved and put on the ag's list of approved guns but their decision did a u turn, it was taken off again and glock basically said f*** you, we ain't making any more safety changes and that brings us to today.
 

ScottS

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Because part of educating a new gun owner is to help them learn what matters and what does not. The Roster does not matter even in the smallest bit to gun owners, only to gun dealers. That is a valid service you could supply to this new owner. Any other answer is perpetuating misinformation.
I'm not in the business of educating her on MA laws, or the vagaries/subtleties of it. There are others she can talk to for that. I'm not looking for "a valid service to supply." I recommended she take Len's seminar when he begins teaching them again. As I tried to say in the OP, I'm looking for a specific answer to a specific question.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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If you want a Gen 3. Buy a P80.

First time ever building a Glock, I was disappointed at how fast I did it. Took me a full 10 minutes because I watched a video.

I know you don't want to hear this, but just go and buy it. Forget about the list.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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Because part of educating a new gun owner is to help them learn what matters and what does not. The Roster does not matter even in the smallest bit to gun owners, only to gun dealers. That is a valid service you could supply to this new owner. Any other answer is perpetuating misinformation.
This. It is the first thing I tell every new gun owner. There is no point in confusing them.
 

CrackPot

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I'm not in the business of educating her on MA laws, or the vagaries/subtleties of it. There are others she can talk to for that. I'm not looking for "a valid service to supply." I recommended she take Len's seminar when he begins teaching them again. As I tried to say in the OP, I'm looking for a specific answer to a specific question.
The question you want to answer is a vagaries/subtleties of MA law question. Don’t fool yourself
 

ScottS

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The question you want to answer is a vagaries/subtleties of MA law question. Don’t fool yourself
Really, it's not. Watch.

"Is this particular gun on the EOPS Approved Roster?"
"Yes. Moving on..."

I got the answer before Post 6. Again, thanks to all who responded.
 

CrackPot

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Really, it's not. Watch.

"Is this particular gun on the EOPS Approved Roster?"
"Yes. Moving on..."

I got the answer before Post 6. Again, thanks to all who responded.
And just like that you perpetuate the idea of EOPS list relevancy and mislead the person all at the same time. Congrats on being part of the problem.
 

ScottS

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And just like that you perpetuate the idea of EOPS list relevancy and mislead the person all at the same time. Congrats on being part of the problem.
Oh, no! Fixing misconceptions among MA gun owners is in my job description!? Did I miss that?
(Hurriedly pages through the job description of "Random Guy in New Hampshire"...)
Nope. Not in there. WHEW! Thought I messed up there for a moment...
 

CrackPot

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Oh, no! Fixing misconceptions among MA gun owners is in my job description!? Did I miss that?
(Hurriedly pages through the job description of "Random Guy in New Hampshire"...)
Nope. Not in there. WHEW! Thought I messed up there for a moment...
Then instead of answering the question with a yes/no relative to EOPS, say "I live in NH so I dont comment on MA law". That avoids any propagation of misinformation and makes them seek out a MA authority. Answering the EOPs question with "yes" does harm
 
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ScottS

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Then instead of answering the question with a yes/no relative to EOPS, say "I live in NH so I dont comment on MA law". That avoids any propagation of misinformation and makes them seek out a MA authority. Answering the EOPs question with "yes" does harm
Specific answer to a specific question, which was provided here.
But thanks for deciding for me what I should say.
You do you, and I'll do me.
 

CrackPot

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Specific answer to a specific question, which was provided here.
But thanks for deciding for me what I should say.
You do you, and I'll do me.
A specific, detailed, irrelevant question to a very complex topic on MA law that you are dead set on answering your way regardless if it is correct, meaningful or useful. If that is you... Just don't fool yourself into thinking you are being helpful to the MA person learning about guns because you are not. The simpler approach is far better and will save the rest of us in MA from having to correct the damage later. As a MA FFL I spend untold hours reeducating people that have been "taught" by "experts" all the wrong things about MA law. "what do you mean glocks are not banned?" "why cant I buy a glock, it is on the list?" and other crap that they spew based on what someone "taught" them.

You are part of the problem and dont kid yourself just because you bounded the problem to a "specific question". That just shows your ignorance and propagates it.

With peoples access to information today, ignorance is a choice. You be you.
 
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