employment drug testing: wt-----

Picton

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Got out of the Army, where drug tests were several times a year, or month depending on how much of an ass the Commander and 1SG felt like being.

Military drug tests are supervised. Yes, some poor E4 has to watch you piss in the cup. It’s just how it goes.

My first job out of the military required a drug test. I went to the clinic and was walked to the bathroom by the nurse. I held the door, as a gentleman, and said “after you”.
She asked what I said, kind of mad. (I thought this weird).
I MEANT to say “aren’t you required to observe?” but it came out “don’t you want to watch?”
Now she was REALLY mad. And I was clueless. Luckily a supervisor came by and asked if I was military explained to her that I wasn’t being a pervert.
Yup. Piss tests in the Army are frequent, and there’s always a meatgazer.

I seem to recall that being an “observer” required some kind of course or certification or something, and that was NOT for the guys at the tippy-top of the OML.
 

whacko

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Yup. Piss tests in the Army are frequent, and there’s always a meatgazer.

I seem to recall that being an “observer” required some kind of course or certification or something, and that was NOT for the guys at the tippy-top of the OML.
There is a cert for the meat gazer and the test administrators. It's a very detailed process.

Yes ....in the army the o server must see flesh.....piss.....cup

There is no cheating.
 

whacko

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Got out of the Army, where drug tests were several times a year, or month depending on how much of an ass the Commander and 1SG felt like being.

Military drug tests are supervised. Yes, some poor E4 has to watch you piss in the cup. It’s just how it goes.

My first job out of the military required a drug test. I went to the clinic and was walked to the bathroom by the nurse. I held the door, as a gentleman, and said “after you”.
She asked what I said, kind of mad. (I thought this weird).
I MEANT to say “aren’t you required to observe?” but it came out “don’t you want to watch?”
Now she was REALLY mad. And I was clueless. Luckily a supervisor came by and asked if I was military explained to her that I wasn’t being a pervert.
As a former commander......twice....I'll tell you that there is a requirement to test a certain percentage of the company per month. You can delay a test but have to double up and catch up the count the following month. It's a regulation. The commanders and 1sg are of course bound by the chain of command to adhere to that regulation. It's not them being a**h***s.....their being ordered to do the testing. And obeying orders is kind of a thing in the army.
 

Coda

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He was incorrect about one aspect.

If your company was a federal supplier or contactor, drug testing, random or otherwise, is part of the rules of being a federal supplier.
We were not a federal supplier. And the legal advice I got must of been better than the legal advice that my employer got or we would have been tested.
 

TJRaccoon

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Most places I have worked required a drug screen. For the type of work it actually makes sense. The only place that didn't was Philips Healthcare, which is a place I would not recommend.
 

Kevin_NH

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Getting back to the OP, If you want to make a 4A claim, look at the "Drug-Free Workplace Act of 1988", which stops just short of mandating drug testing for companies suckling the government teat.

Most places I have worked required a drug screen. For the type of work it actually makes sense. The only place that didn't was Philips Healthcare, which is a place I would not recommend.
Testing definitely varies by industry, especially where the Federal government puts pressure on them to test. It also makes a difference that in some professions, there's enough competition to hire people that employers will choose not to test knowing that bloody-minded IT folk, will turn down an offer contingent on peeing in a cup, even knowing we'll pass.
 
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Let the record state that in MA if the person has a medical MJ card and you play games with it your ass is grass. pun intended. praise be jesus.

Most places I have worked required a drug screen. For the type of work it actually makes sense.
Interesting, what sort of work?

In my opinion... the people that complain about drug tests, to work at a company, are the ones that know they can’t pass it with out studying
This is incorrect. I have been living the good ol' straight edge life for a long time now. Not even booze, which I clearly shouldn't be consuming for reasons.

And here you have me left, Dench himself. Pure muscle and manliness. The epitome of masculinity in peak physical condition. Sober as can be.

After all that, I am the last person you want to hire for anything [rofl]

Oh, I'll pass that drug test. And then I'll drive you insane all day at work, try to wrestle with everyone, do BJJ on people who want nothing to do with it, try to find people dumb enough to spar muay thai, play video games at work, be the best barracks lawyer who's ever walked this green Earth. Shit, I'll even manage your entire IT environment on the side, which is a plus I suppose.

My father would of failed the drug test. And my father was the exact person you wanted to hire. Riddle me that. Maybe I do need drugs...
 
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Let the record state that in MA if the person has a medical MJ card and you play games with it your ass is grass. pun intended. praise be jesus.



Interesting, what sort of work?



This is incorrect. I have been living the good ol' straight edge life for a long time now. Not even booze, which I clearly shouldn't be consuming for reasons.

And here you have me left, Dench himself. Pure muscle and manliness. The epitome of masculinity in peak physical condition. Sober as can be.

After all that, I am the last person you want to hire for anything [rofl]

Oh, I'll pass that drug test. And then I'll drive you insane all day at work, try to wrestle with everyone, do BJJ on people who want nothing to do with it, try to find people dumb enough to spar muay thai, play video games at work, be the best barracks lawyer who's ever walked this green Earth. Shit, I'll even manage your entire IT environment on the side, which is a plus I suppose.

My father would of failed the drug test. And my father was the exact person you wanted to hire. Riddle me that. Maybe I do need drugs...

'hey nice jacket come here'

*hiptoss* 'ACCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKK'
 

tuna

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For the last three years of my military service, I kept a can of asparagus in my desk. When I’d get the letter saying report to the NCO club to join Operation Golden Flow (that’s where we had ours) I’d chug the can cold. By the time I was giving my sample, it was already stinky and was usually noticed by the observer.

Yup, I’m an a**hole.
 

whacko

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Let the record state that in MA if the person has a medical MJ card and you play games with it your ass is grass. pun intended. praise be jesus.



Interesting, what sort of work?



This is incorrect. I have been living the good ol' straight edge life for a long time now. Not even booze, which I clearly shouldn't be consuming for reasons.

And here you have me left, Dench himself. Pure muscle and manliness. The epitome of masculinity in peak physical condition. Sober as can be.

After all that, I am the last person you want to hire for anything [rofl]

Oh, I'll pass that drug test. And then I'll drive you insane all day at work, try to wrestle with everyone, do BJJ on people who want nothing to do with it, try to find people dumb enough to spar muay thai, play video games at work, be the best barracks lawyer who's ever walked this green Earth. Shit, I'll even manage your entire IT environment on the side, which is a plus I suppose.

My father would of failed the drug test. And my father was the exact person you wanted to hire. Riddle me that. Maybe I do need drugs...
Not sure what you mean by mass and mj card. We recently fired a guy on his 3rd day in a position. He was hired as a production planner......calculating costing of new items and such. His 2nd day it took him 4 hours to calculate an item costing that should have taken 20 minutes. 3rd day he was seen on the parking lot 10 minutes before start time smoking a joint. Called Into the CEOs office and yeah he whipped out his medical mj card. CEO showed him the door.
 

TJRaccoon

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Interesting, what sort of work?
You might have missed my signature..... Paratrooper
Engineer ..... Sig Sauer (might be legal by the state // not the ATF)
Military Defense Engineer (Aegis/Patriot/Missile Systems/Combat Electronics/Microwave) .....Feds will get torqued up...Unless you are Elon M,
Medical devices .... stents/pacemakers/catheters/Artificial Heart Valves/Medical Lasers
 

MaverickNH

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Hey, don’t take drugs. Or don’t work where I depend on you to get the job done right. And don’t make me pay for your sorry ass when your sick or injured because of drugs, alcohol, etc.
 

CrackPot

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i am retired don't drink or smoke anything, thin, exercise everyday and don't look my age.
have 25 yr. plus hi tech manufacturing and parts experience. was working for this wonderful little company part time: 20 hrs a week, weekdays 2 miles from my house. the owner went through divorce and the cun---- destroyed his life as well as the company. getting bored and would like to find a similar part time position. all the big box companies that hire retired people want a drug test. that, to me, is a 4th amendment violation which is just as important as the 2nd and 1st. when asked to do so i respond; "will piss in a bottle if you slurp it down afterwards". if you know any places that are no b.s. let me know: not overly concerned about the salary.
If we pretend for a second we actually live in a free country...

If an employer demands you pee in a cup, you have two choices, pee in a cup or look for a different job. No one will make you pee in the cup and no one will make the employer hire you if you don't.

Of course, we don't live in a free country. Good luck finding an employer that services the federal government in some way that does not require your pee. And as the federal government gets bigger and bigger and imposes its rules on states, on anyone who takes their (our) money, etc, finding any employer that does not have to follow federal rules becomes impossible.

As someone who has had a security clearance forever, I can't even begin to feel bad for you over this.
 
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Not sure what you mean by mass and mj card. We recently fired a guy on his 3rd day in a position. He was hired as a production planner......calculating costing of new items and such. His 2nd day it took him 4 hours to calculate an item costing that should have taken 20 minutes. 3rd day he was seen on the parking lot 10 minutes before start time smoking a joint. Called Into the CEOs office and yeah he whipped out his medical mj card. CEO showed him the door.
At work use isn't covered, but it is outside of the workplace if the person using has a brain and can communicate correctly. If an employee has a valid prescription for a condition and is using out side of work the employers drug policy can't say much about it.

You might have missed my signature..... Paratrooper
Engineer ..... Sig Sauer (might be legal by the state // not the ATF)
Military Defense Engineer (Aegis/Patriot/Missile Systems/Combat Electronics/Microwave) .....Feds will get torqued up...Unless you are Elon M,
Medical devices .... stents/pacemakers/catheters/Artificial Heart Valves/Medical Lasers
Wow no drinking in that airborne unit?
 

whacko

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At work use isn't covered, but it is outside of the workplace if the person using has a brain and can communicate correctly. If an employee has a valid prescription for a condition and is using out side of work the employers drug policy can't say much about it.



Wow no drinking in that airborne unit?
I'm going to say that it depends on the job. As I stated earlier in this thread.....cdl drivers are NOT exempt with a medical mj card in any state! DOT says so and has published multiple statements that just because states are legalizing does not mean a cdl driver is not tested for marijuana anymore or that a med card means it's ok. It's still illegal on the fed level.

Here's proof.....and this is what I used to recently brief my cdl drivers.

DOT "Medical Marijuana" Notice




I understand that the case I quoted originally was for a production controller that whipped out an mj card not a driver. However your statement sounded all encompassing that mj cards exempt hot tests for mj.....and that just ain't true
 
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Kevin_NH

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Not a 4th Amendment violation, you have no constitutional right to a job. Sorry.

I don't like it either, but it's now SOP everywhere.
Outside of DoD and DOT mandates, testing was only as common as it used to be because the feds pushed it so hard under the "Drug-Free Workplace Act", and insurers jumped on the bandwagon.

Companies (even ones with Fed contracts) are slowly unwinding their testing policies, especially in tech where it greatly reduces the pool of applicants -- even non-using prospects find peeing in a cup objectionable, and it's a seller's market.
 
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I'm going to say that it depends on the job. As I stated earlier in this thread.....cdl drivers are NOT exempt with a medical mj card in any state! DOT says so and has published multiple statements that just because states are legalizing does not mean a cdl driver is not tested for marijuana anymore or that a med card means it's ok. It's still illegal on the fed level.

Here's proof.....and this is what I used to recently brief my cdl drivers.

DOT "Medical Marijuana" Notice




I understand that the case I quoted originally was for a production controller that whipped out an mj card not a driver. However your statement sounded all encompassing that mj cards exempt hot tests for mj.....and that just ain't true
I don't know how it would extend over to a person with a CDL, because no ones gone to court over it yet post Barbuto v. Advantage Sales and Mktg., LLC.

It's important to point out that the DOT's policy on drug use is the typical mindless bullshit that makes zero sense but people support because reasons. What drugs can't you use under a CDL while not at work? Basically all Schedule 1 drugs. Schedule 1 drugs are drugs so hard to make money off of commercially that they get a number 1 next to them. Anyway, the DOT goes on to make exceptions, well, sorta. You can't be on amphetamine. But you can be on the legal version of it if a doctor says yes sir, he's good. They also have a shit ton of grey area. Some drugs are always good, some are bad sometimes and some are satan himself (marijuana).

So anyway, the best policy with anything .gov related is to sit back, laugh and continue on with your life. Because most of it is made up. And the parts that aren't made up are created via agendas.


Another very important thing that most conveniently forget or pretend isn't the actual subject: most people when talking about prescription marijuana are not talking about at work use. And virtually no one is talking about at work use while operating the big trucks. Why and how the "you can't be high while you drive a 100 ton off road dump truck" comments continuously get brought up as if that is the only point that needs to be made, case closed, is beyond me.


I suspect a better policy is if a person actually thinks at home / private use of MJ is bad they probably should have their license revoked because they are so beyond lost that they are the problem. I'm at the point now where I stopped caring what the feds say about MJ so long ago I don't even bring up the fact that it's comically a schedual 1 drug, despite the fact that by definition it is in no way. I'm not a federal worker either, plus I don't even use it so I don't have a pony in the race besides supporting liberty - which is a lost art.

Outside of DoD and DOT mandates, testing was only as common as it used to be because the feds pushed it so hard under the "Drug-Free Workplace Act", and insurers jumped on the bandwagon.

Companies (even ones with Fed contracts) are slowing unwinding their testing policies, especially in tech where it greatly reduces the pool of applicants -- even non-using prospects find peeing in a cup objectionable, and it's a seller's market.
Some real insane case law came out of that act and it was during the drug war heigh late 80's early 90's. The TLDR of all the case law is if you take drugs you are automatically bad in every way humanly possible. Obviously alcohol is an exception as it's the king of drugs that are abused so no one wants to f*** with it. It's like the Chuck Norris of substance abuse. Not even SCOTUS is turning that rock over.

If any of this case law went on to say you have to be straight edge or your fired - hell, I'd understand these morons for once. But they never do this. They ignore the important parts and main offenders and demonize the shit that's easy to bash. Case law for simpletons.

We have millions of people in jail, and tens of millions of people who've permanently lost rights over a plant, and people still pretend that the prohibition is/was or could be a good thing.

Rapture, take me away. Or take the people who think it's a good thing away. Baby Jesus please.

Not a 4th Amendment violation, you have no constitutional right to a job. Sorry.

I don't like it either, but it's now SOP everywhere.
It's not a 4A violation but in some places it is an American with disabilities act (or similar local law and or ADA and local and or ultra convoluted combination of other things) violation to jerk people around who use it legally under supervision of a doctor. And this is the direction it's heading more and more. The liability aspect of finding out an employee uses off duty with a prescription is not worth finding out in a lot of cases. Now that employer has to get that under tight lock and key and for what gain? Just to be nosey a**h***s about an employees private health care? Talk about f***ing creepy, not to mention they are now laying on a hand grenade if that shit ever gets out of HR and into the work environment.

I've noticed recently that several employers in my field have stopped testing for MJ period. because if they find it, they don't want to even begin to start asking questions because of all the land mines laid out in MA. And no one wants to be the 1st moron to pull off an ADA violation to fight with an employee about legal off duty use of a medication. Employers should not be asking ANY questions about medications that do not directly show during work.

It is a slow battle though. I'd say at least another decade till it's blown over mostly.
 
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Rob Boudrie

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For the last three years of my military service, I kept a can of asparagus in my desk. When I’d get the letter saying report to the NCO club to join Operation Golden Flow (that’s where we had ours) I’d chug the can cold. By the time I was giving my sample, it was already stinky and was usually noticed by the observer.

Yup, I’m an a**hole.
If you want really cool color urine, figure out a way to get an MD to give you .5 to 1.0 cc flourescein dye before the test. I had that stuff for some retinal photography and the first pee after is brighter than a new yellow highlighter.

The TLDR of all the case law is if you take drugs you are automatically bad in every way humanly possible.
One administration (forget which) had a ban on federal officials using the term "drug use". They were required to use the term "abuse" when describing any non-prescribed non-OTC drug use.
 

seanc

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Just about every company does this now. Not at all uncommon.

You don’t have to wee in the cup. They don’t HAVE to hire you. Pretty simple,
You can not take it and say no. They don’t have to hire you.

Especially with tons of people out there on drugs. It is an easy and objective way for companies to weed out the junkies in the midst of a heroin epidemic.
 

KBCraig

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HIPAA applies to entities that bill Medicare and Medicaid. Your understanding is incorrect, or you had bad advice.
I'll be sure to tell the company lawyers that you said so.

They're the ones who determined that every employee has to take HIPAA training and sign off on the policy. All 267,000 employees, in a company with over $60 billion annual revenue.
 
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I'll be sure to tell the company lawyers that you said so.

They're the ones who determined that every employee has to take HIPAA training and sign off on the policy. All 267,000 employees, in a company with over $60 billion annual revenue.
HIPAA confuses the shit out of everyone. What ends up happening at the end of the day is everyone just clumps all the health care privacy act shit, both federal and state into the word "HIPAA" and boom, we have what we have today. The way it works out in the end is if you are the bossman and you know a thing, dont tell people who don't need to know the thing. And you should know as little things as possible so that way less things can escape the thing that holds the things.
 

Kevin_NH

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Just about every company does this now. Not at all uncommon.
56% is "just about every company"?

Maybe 40% of jobs require pre-employment screening, and the number decreases every year.. Often whether or not to test is a company culture thing; no testing at Google or Apple, while Amazon only tests warehouse workers, and Walmart tests everybody (and recently lost a lawsuit over firing a MMJ cardholder).
 

tuna

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It’s a joke anyway.

I took a second job at Lowe’s and they did a drug test, q-tip in the mouth test.

Supposedly it is the easiest type to get a pass on, since 75% of my coworkers admitted to smoking weed regularly.

I couldn’t get over the amount of hopheads out in civilian life. I guess I’ve been sheltered from these marijuana junkies based on me being pretty antisocial.
 

tuna

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Thanks for getting that was a joke.

While it’s true, no one in my circles smokes, I don’t really care.

But Lord, is it fun to blame the worlds troubles in legal marijuana. Even when using terms that should indicate the sarcasm, ie “ These damn kids with their now legal marijuanas are going to cause all kinds of Hell trying to score their next fix. It’s going to cause all kinds of troubles and we’re just seeing the top of the iceberg” (this was regarding people being retarded at the rotary in East Longmeadow, which is just poorly designed and has nothing to do with weed).
 
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Some company's have drug tests. If you're doing work for the Fed it's mandated. If you feel uncomfortable piss testing, then don't. I work for a company that makes firearms. I HAVE to get piss tested. Go work at walmart if you feel your rights are being violated. Coming on here calling us sheeple isn't winning you any friends and you just sound like an a**h***.
Actually, a friend of mine worked at Wal-Mart when he was between jobs. They do (or at least did) require a drug test for all applicants.
 

Kevin_NH

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Actually, a friend of mine worked at Wal-Mart when he was between jobs. They do (or at least did) require a drug test for all applicants.
TMK, Walmart tests everybody (and recently lost a lawsuit over firing a MMJ cardholder).

He can go work at Chipotle -- they know their market, nobody on either side of the counter at a late-night burrito joint is passing any tests.
 
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