EFA10 SBR from a Trust: select rifle?

[Reptile]

If a SBR is in a trust you can not enter the name of the trust as the entity that is registering the SBR. The FRB told me to use my LTC and pin. The seller section is left blank. On the second page you must enter one of the following: handgun, rifle, machine gun, or shotgun.

The closest thing that resembles a SBR is rifle.

In Mass a SBR is not a rifle.

Is that what I should select?

I'm just getting my ducks in a row.

The SBR is not built yet but I have a stamp from before 7/20/16.

 

[SJan]

concerning an FA10 for a SBR owned by a trust, you enter your name and LTC # and it is a pistol

 

[costac]

Why do you have to fa10 the SBR? Wasn't it already registered or did you not fa10 it prior to the 7/20 kinda, maybe, not sure ban? If it was a registered lower already and you made it a SBR its still the same lower with the same serial #.

 

[boilermaker]

concerning an FA10 for a SBR owned by a trust, you enter your name and LTC # and it is a pistol

I have heard this "pistol" registration referenced alot suddenly but I think the source was a phone call, anything in writing out there to this effect? I am not saying its wrong but would just like to have better than "I was "told" by…"

 

[steve8140]

I have heard this "pistol" registration referenced alot suddenly but I think the source was a phone call, anything in writing out there to this effect? I am not saying its wrong but would just like to have better than "I was "told" by…"

I believe I had the original post about registering it as a handgun. I asked for it in writing and was told "they dont do that". Over the course of three days I spoke with 3 different people and was told to register as a handgun. Their only reasoning was because it does not meet the requirement of a 16" barrel to fall under a rifle.

I don't know if I would encourage anyone to call, but if you feel inclined to do so, please take notes, names, ask for it in writing or a MGL number.
The Massachusetts Firearms Record Bureau (617)660-4782

Post your results

 

[Lxpony]

I wouldn't call anyone

 

[Reptile]

Why do you have to fa10 the SBR? Wasn't it already registered or did you not fa10 it prior to the 7/20 kinda, maybe, not sure ban? If it was a registered lower already and you made it a SBR its still the same lower with the same serial #.

Thank you all so far for your input.

The lower was legally obtained but not FA10'ed 2 years ago. It was put into a trust (engraved) and a stamp was applied for from the ATF. The stamp was received about 2 years ago. The lower still is not built up.

When it gets built - I plan on registering it with my LTC# as a pistol per recommendations on this thread.

I look forward to any additional comments.


"Leave it alone! ! Don't call anyone

No FA10
No phone calls
No worries"

Ok, Ok, Ok!!!!

 

[MGnoob]

I would be skeptical of efa10 it as a pistol....by saying it is a pistol by state law your most likely creating an assault pistol as defined by ma law..

 

[Da_lucche]

I would be skeptical of efa10 it as a pistol....by saying it is a pistol by state law your most likely creating an assault pistol as defined by ma law..

Good point.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[MGnoob]

I figured someome would tell me im a tard because that is my interpretation of it..if it was a pre 1994 its unlikely it was originally a pistol and while theres a grey area Fa10ing it as a pistol it is more admiting guilt than doing it as a rifle. Atleast you could contest healey verdict as a rifle....
Its a tricky situation.. mine are pre 1994 rifles made sbr.... that i didnt file a 2nd efa10 for because it happened when i bought the receiver originally...
Your just damed if you do dammed if you dont. I risk incriminating myself even discussing it. But it was legal than illegal, then illegal no matter what i did. And this is for pre 1994... the 1998 forward is tripple illegal than after 7/20/2016 quadruple illegal....... or totally legal... or maybe thrice illegal.... i lost count.

Either way buy a RDIAS then its double legal canceling out the other illegal....do you understand?

 

[Asaltweapon]

OK.

Late to the this party because I wasn't expecting my trust SBR approval after the 7-20 mess. Yes I'm kicking myself for not doing it when I had the engraving done but that's 20:20.

Stamp came, lower was engraved but not assembled (didn't even own the loose parts to make it) so now what? Damned if I do. Damned if I don't.

It's not a pre-pre band.

 

[MGnoob]

Probibly should have just not posted about it. It sure doesnt help you any with your problem.
Since the AG has clearly said its illegal but wont prosecute, the fact thats is now an sbr makes little difference.

As to what you should do now, i would think i would do what i would have before 7/20.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Probibly should have just not posted about it. It sure doesnt help you any with your problem.
Since the AG has clearly said its illegal but wont prosecute, the fact thats is now an sbr makes little difference.

As to what you should do now, i would think i would do what i would have before 7/20.

Sorry, Maybe I'm a bit slow this morning but we all know most anybody with any AR configuration post 98 is effected. I clearly miss your point.

 

[71montess]

I'd delete it.

 

[MGnoob]

My point being noone would even know if you didnt post about it.

The ag says they are illegal but wont prosecute so your good to go....SBR is irrelevant.

 

[steve8140]

OK.

Late to the this party because I wasn't expecting my trust SBR approval after the 7-20 mess. Yes I'm kicking myself for not doing it when I had the engraving done but that's 20:20.

Stamp came, lower was engraved but not assembled (didn't even own the loose parts to make it) so now what? Damned if I do. Damned if I don't.

It's not a pre-pre band.

You need to make up your own mind here because there is no official answer from anyone that matters. With that being said, you have your tax stamp approved from the ATF, when was it applied for? If you have the serial number on it and date applied before 7/20, that would be your proof you owned the lower prior to the bitch's ban. There is a post somewhere here stating that the AG's office stated that "if you have proof you had the lower before 7/20 you can build it". I'll try to find it.

Again, this is just my .02 cents from a gun enthusiast and not a lawyer.

 

[steve8140]

You need to make up your own mind here because there is no official answer from anyone that matters. With that being said, you have your tax stamp approved from the ATF, when was it applied for? If you have the serial number on it and date applied before 7/20, that would be your proof you owned the lower prior to the bitch's ban. There is a post somewhere here stating that the AG's office stated that "if you have proof you had the lower before 7/20 you can build it". I'll try to find it.

Again, this is just my .02 cents from a gun enthusiast and not a lawyer.

This was an email posted by another member here regarding the lower.

Received this non-answer answer from the AG's office this morning:

"Mr. XXXXXX: We have discussed this issue with the ATF, but we don’t control the licensing choices they make.

In general, our position has been that you can build out a non-compliant receiver and register your rifle, provided you retain evidence that the receiver was acquired before July 20, 2016.


Perhaps the ATF can be more specific on your application at this time.



Best,

Gary Klein
Senior Trial Counsel
Public Protection and Advocacy
Office of Attorney General Maura Healey
"

 

[Len-2A Training]

This was an email posted by another member here regarding the lower.

Received this non-answer answer from the AG's office this morning:

"Mr. XXXXXX: We have discussed this issue with the ATF, but we don’t control the licensing choices they make.

In general, our position has been that you can build out a non-compliant receiver and register your rifle, provided you retain evidence that the receiver was acquired before July 20, 2016.


Perhaps the ATF can be more specific on your application at this time.



Best,

Gary Klein
Senior Trial Counsel
Public Protection and Advocacy
Office of Attorney General Maura Healey
"

Steve,

You have no idea how valuable that response is!!!

For those of us sitting on lowers purchased years ago but not FA-10'd to date, that is the response we need to build them out (not NFA) without fear of persecution!

 

[drgrant]

Not sure why you guys are talking to the AGs office about SBRs.

I would never ****ing do that. Never in a million years. Stop poking the idiots with sticks. Just do the smart thing, get your stamp, and leave the sleeping dogs alone.

IMHO this is terminally negligent. If you feel like you have to beg the AG for permission to do something you should not be building an SBR to begin with. The AGs office does not act in good faith, you should not communicate with them under any circumstances that doesn't involve using counsel.

-Mike

 

[tencara]

Bingo!

Thanks for posting that!

 

[Asaltweapon]

Not sure why you guys are talking to the AGs office about SBRs.

I would never ****ing do that. Never in a million years. Stop poking the idiots with sticks. Just do the smart thing, get your stamp, and leave the sleeping dogs alone.

IMHO this is terminally negligent. If you feel like you have to beg the AG for permission to do something you should not be building an SBR to begin with. The AGs office does not act in good faith, you should not communicate with them under any circumstances that doesn't involve using counsel.

-Mike

OK. Fair enough. Then tell us what would you propose for efa10? The paperwork proves it was here but not built.
It's not like you can attach a page or anything to the form. IMO one way or another a flag gets waved. No?

 

[steve8140]

Almost a year since there’s been any activity.

Not sure if there’s anything new, but the registration portal won’t even let you register as a rifle if it’s barrel is under 16”. The only option would be a handgun.

I don’t remember that before.

 

[soam]

Almost a year since there’s been any activity.

Not sure if there’s anything new, but the registration portal won’t even let you register as a rifle if it’s barrel is under 16”. The only option would be a handgun.

I don’t remember that before.

Well that's dumb. An SBR is a "firearm" under the MA definitions, but it is definitely not a handgun. They need to update the system to include a "short barreled rifle" option or change the "handgun" option "firearm".

 

[Lxpony]

It's there way to prohibit the buying of an already made sbr.

 

[CrackPot]

Try and register as a rifle and enter < 16" or shotgun and enter < 18". I think that does not work anymore. They "fixed" it. A SBS or SBR is a firearm in MA and a firearm is synonymous with a handgun the way the law is written. There are only 3 types, rifle, shotgun and firearm. It is not like federal law where you can have a firearm that is not a handgun, shotgun or rifle (think Shockwave).

I would register under handgun.

The intersection of SBR and the AWB has always been a potential risk area. I can find ways to read it such that an SBR cant ever be an assault weapon. It is not subject to rifle rules because it is not a rifle (MA law). The AWB says pistol is per 9/13/94 federal law. Since an SBR is not a pistol, it does not fall subject to the federal pistol definition. You add that up and an SBR is subject to no AWB categories so an SBR is never an AW. Of course, I would expect some DA to read this totally differently and charge under either pistol or rifle section, whichever is more favorable to prosecution and let things sort themselves out.

 

[steve8140]

Try and register as a rifle and enter < 16" or shotgun and enter < 18". I think that does not work anymore. They "fixed" it. A SBS or SBR is a firearm in MA and a firearm is synonymous with a handgun the way the law is written. There are only 3 types, rifle, shotgun and firearm. It is not like federal law where you can have a firearm that is not a handgun, shotgun or rifle (think Shockwave).

I would register under handgun.

That's what I did a few years ago and posted in other threads about it. But i believe it gave you the option to do rifle or handgun. Not anymore.

 

[71montess]

I registered my then seekins 18" barrel'd rifle on a efa10. Then changed the barrel when I sbr'd it.
Register it as a 18” rifle on a efa10 for state purposes then when you want sbr it, no reason to talk to state after efa10 1st Time.

 

[drgrant]

It's there way to prohibit the buying of an already made sbr.

But it actually doesn't LOL... there are so many creative ways around this problem. A problem which really isn't a problem.....

 

[dcmdon]

If you actually read the MGL, there is no definition for a pistol.

There is a definition for a "firearm". The law explicitly includes SBR's in the category of "firearm".

Don

p.s. to DR Grant's point.

I'm interested in opinions on this process:

Transfer a stripped lower or in the case of something like an MP5, a stripped barreled action. Regardless of barrel length, its not a firearm or rifle per state law. The buyer then submits a form 1.

Once the form 1 is approved the seller then separately provide the parts (This results in a separate transaction, separated by months in time) to the buyer necessary for the buyer to make a functional firearm. Once the buyer assembles a functional firearm, they register it.

If the item in question is coming in from out of state, then possibly have the local FFL hold the balance of the parts while the form 1 is being processed.


MGL for reference.

''Firearm'', a stun gun or a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.