• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Economic "Doom" Mega thread

Waher

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
8,525
Likes
7,477
Location
BG&RA, BR&PC
China making fun of our debt is laughable considering their own banking industry makes ours look like a Swiss watch in comparison. So much of the wealth that has supposedly been created there is really sequestered in party member's bank accounts and overseas real estate it isn't funny. Makes the Tsars look like saints in comparison.
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
BEIJING—Celebrating the milestone with hugs, jubilant cheers, and singing, over 600,000 Chinese citizens assembled in Tiananmen Square today to watch the U.S. debt clock mounted above the Forbidden City reach the landmark sum of $18 trillion dollars. “You could stay home and watch it on TV, but it’s much more exciting to be here with people from all over the country to celebrate this momentous day,” said Beijing resident Xiao Bu, noting that he always arrives in the early morning to stake out a good location in the square every time America’s debt rises by another trillion. “I remember my father taking me to see the $5 trillion mark so long ago, and now I’m bringing my own children here to take part in the festivities. It’s really a special part of our nation’s culture.” While most revelers left shortly after the rollover, an estimated 100,000 reportedly decided to just wait around in the square until the clock struck $19 trillion.
I wonder if they realize their own government's debt is growing so fast it'll overtake the US in just a few years.
 

Chevy 2 65

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
14,502
Likes
5,185
Location
Somewhere in the sands of time
Uhhhh, ummmmm.

You realize there is a massive difference between balancing your currency and purposely devaluing your currency on a regular basis in order to prop up your exports, right? I mean, the "manipulation" that the US Central Bank does is pretty open. It's not in secret.

Not to worry - it costs massive amounts of $ for China to do this. China is in the same boat the Japanese were in the 80's - they are a puppet economy. Stuff is bad over there economically. You can certainly fool enough people for a period of time. Then either the world finds out you are bankrupt or your starving populace overthrows your s-word-ass government and puts Mao II in power.


Funny thread. 439 pages. Still not at da'Doom yet. LOL
Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Reptile, Sep 20, 2009.
 

Reptile

NES Member
Rating - 100%
95   0   0
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
13,981
Likes
4,094
IT’S OVER: THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE BOTH CONSPIRING TO BANKRUPT AMERICA AND DESTROY OUR FUTURE
If the Republicans and the Democrats both don’t care about our exploding national debt there truly is no hope

Both major political parties are working together to destroy America’s financial future, and most Americans don’t seem to care.

Once upon a time, the Republicans were considered to be “the party of fiscal responsibility”, but now they are just as bad as the “free spending” Democrats. As you will see below, a “compromise” budget deal was just reached which will dramatically increase federal spending and will suspend the federal debt limit until after the next election. In other words, both sides are conspiring to make our debt problem much, much worse over the next year and a half, and this should be causing howls of outrage all across America. But instead most Americans seem content to go along with the free spending ways of our political leaders, and only a handful of voices are sounding the alarm as we steamroll toward financial oblivion.

It’s Over: The Democrats And The Republicans Are Both Conspiring To Bankrupt America And Destroy Our Future
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
$1.23 Trillion in new debt this year. No one cares, outside of a couple good ones in the House & Senate (but they are torpedoed by both sides).

Federal Borrowing Soars as Deficit Fear Fades

I post this not to make a difference, but in the hopes the future will realize we weren’t all insane and won’t condemn us enmas
We're past the point of no return, really. There is no one in Washington who will cut any government program, not even Trump.

But most other countries are going to blow up their currencies before we do, so there will be some kind of global currency reset or debt jubilee.
 

GM-GUY

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
9,155
Likes
4,397
Location
North Central Mass
Other countries might blow first or they might see the writing on the wall and all side against us and call the debt & collect their bullion.

Especially if their inter-country debt gets broomed in the mix. If the US gets on an excrement and radical governments hold a lot of US paper, it’s conceivable. Have you noticed the invasion going on in Europe?
 
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
3,508
Likes
1,112
Location
Norwood, MA
Other countries might blow first or they might see the writing on the wall and all side against us and call the debt & collect their bullion.
Really? What countries might that be? Total foreign owned debt is only around 6 trillion. And we store other countries' gold for them, we have the leverage.
 

GM-GUY

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
9,155
Likes
4,397
Location
North Central Mass
I don’t think we have that much wiggle room.

Russia, China, Saudi & Germany could cause a major upset in the ‘value’ of US Debt.

Remember the fit The Fed had when Germany wanted its gold back? What if all of Europe called in their gold?
 

Broccoli Iglesias

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
20,143
Likes
8,857
Location
Suckachusetts
I wonder if they realize their own government's debt is growing so fast it'll overtake the US in just a few years.
They are there because they have to be. Social credits. If you dont go, your social credit probably decreases.

F***ing slaves.

But I am also glad that at least someone is laughing at this gov. Our debt is unacceptable and we continue to spend spend spend.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
20,143
Likes
8,857
Location
Suckachusetts
Other countries might blow first or they might see the writing on the wall and all side against us and call the debt & collect their bullion.

Especially if their inter-country debt gets broomed in the mix. If the US gets on an excrement and radical governments hold a lot of US paper, it’s conceivable. Have you noticed the invasion going on in Europe?
No one wants the US to crash. It's not convenient for them. Remember the last downturn?

We slow.
China slows.
Brazil (Chinas biggest peovider) slows.
Brazil brings down LATAM.
Europe quickly follows.
Other Asian countries that export to the US also follow.

Millions of Chinese lost their jobs during the recession. The only difference is that 5-6 million here is a pretty significant number. In China, as a percentage, it doesnt sound bad at all.
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
Other countries might blow first or they might see the writing on the wall and all side against us and call the debt & collect their bullion.

Especially if their inter-country debt gets broomed in the mix. If the US gets on an excrement and radical governments hold a lot of US paper, it’s conceivable. Have you noticed the invasion going on in Europe?
The dollar hasn't been redeemable for gold since 1971 - and unfortunately for them their debt is mostly in dollars, so they need dollars to pay it off. This is keeping the dollar strong.

I think the countries with backbones (China, Russia, Iran) are trying to side against us (replacing the petro-dollar), but it's not an easy thing. Europe's leaders have zero backbone, like ours (except Trump).
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
I don’t think we have that much wiggle room.

Russia, China, Saudi & Germany could cause a major upset in the ‘value’ of US Debt.

Remember the fit The Fed had when Germany wanted its gold back? What if all of Europe called in their gold?
Not anymore - suppose China were to sell all $1 trillion of its US treasuries - Peter Schiff would by crying Doomsday! But the US central bank would just buy all of it, every last dollar. Nothing would happen. The US Fed could buy all $6 trillion of whatever of the foreign held debt.

The Fed in a few years will be buying everything - stocks, bonds, student debt, corporate debt, municipal debt, state debt - we're going the way of Japan, whose central bank owns half their stock market.
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
In 1 hour the Fed will start a rate cutting cycle for the first time in 10 years, and the first time ever from such a low starting point.

Historians will look back and say it was the beginning of the end for the global financial system.

Is anyone else excited?
 

richc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
15,322
Likes
16,599
Location
metrowest
I think the rate cut is likely but not a done deal.

Unemployment is at record lows. The stock market is at record highs. The US dollar is very strong.

It feels to me like a politically motivated maneuver. Perhaps to keep the good times rolling long enough to get through the 2020 elections.

But I'm always a skeptic...

In 1 hour the Fed will start a rate cutting cycle for the first time in 10 years, and the first time ever from such a low starting point.

Historians will look back and say it was the beginning of the end for the global financial system.

Is anyone else excited?
 

richc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
15,322
Likes
16,599
Location
metrowest
Let's see, since the announcement gold and silver are down. And the stock market is down.

Yeah, I'm effing thrilled!

:-(


In 1 hour the Fed will start a rate cutting cycle for the first time in 10 years, and the first time ever from such a low starting point.

Historians will look back and say it was the beginning of the end for the global financial system.

Is anyone else excited?
 

GM-GUY

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
9,155
Likes
4,397
Location
North Central Mass
Well I guess interest on the Debt won’t destroy us - yet. Of course people who have money in the bank are being killed slowly by this. It also keeps increases in SSI payments down as well iirc

How long until negative rates?
 

peterk123

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
678
Likes
1,017
Location
Massachusetts
It feels to me like a politically motivated maneuver. Perhaps to keep the good times rolling long enough to get through the 2020 elections.

But I'm always a skeptic...

I agree. Rate cuts are not used for monetary policy purposes anymore. That was evident in our refusal to really increase rates by anything meaningful during this entire recovery under two administrations. Today it is used for political purposes and to keep the stock market propped up. Heck, we should just have the Fed Rate fixed at like .5% and just take it out of the equation. Don't need it; we have Quantitative Easing to solve all of our problems. Just print it baby :)

Inflation, eh who cares. Nobody buys anything with cash anymore anyways, so does price really matter? All we care about is what our monthly payment will be. And so what if yields on your saving account sucks. Who saves money anymore; that is just silly.
 

richc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
15,322
Likes
16,599
Location
metrowest
Can I hire you as my financial advisor???

:)

I agree. Rate cuts are not used for monetary policy purposes anymore. That was evident in our refusal to really increase rates by anything meaningful during this entire recovery under two administrations. Today it is used for political purposes and to keep the stock market propped up. Heck, we should just have the Fed Rate fixed at like .5% and just take it out of the equation. Don't need it; we have Quantitative Easing to solve all of our problems. Just print it baby :)

Inflation, eh who cares. Nobody buys anything with cash anymore anyways, so does price really matter? All we care about is what our monthly payment will be. And so what if yields on your saving account sucks. Who saves money anymore; that is just silly.
 

ASHDUMP

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
4,797
Likes
797
Location
Massashootin'
So there was a sell off on wall street because the fed cut rates by .25% and mentioned this was just the beginning? So wall street doesn't think the economic forecast is bright? Or, just a bunch of suits all in a pickle.... stock market will be back to new normal next week?
 

richc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
15,322
Likes
16,599
Location
metrowest
Actually the fed cut rates and said don't expect anymore. That was the fly in the ointment.

So there was a sell off on wall street because the fed cut rates by .25% and mentioned this was just the beginning? So wall street doesn't think the economic forecast is bright? Or, just a bunch of suits all in a pickle.... stock market will be back to new normal next week?
 

GM-GUY

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
9,155
Likes
4,397
Location
North Central Mass
Just like they expected more hikes this year at the December meeting. If the numbers suck over the next couple months - they’ll cut again.

Assigning rational thought to this system is a fools errand.
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
So there was a sell off on wall street because the fed cut rates by .25% and mentioned this was just the beginning? So wall street doesn't think the economic forecast is bright? Or, just a bunch of suits all in a pickle.... stock market will be back to new normal next week?
Wall St got everything it wanted, it didn't really want two cuts, that would stoke fears that the Fed sees something bad on the horizon. The Fed might pretend this is one and done but no one believes them, or else you'd have a 5% selloff not 1%.

Wall St knows the Fed is doing whatever it wants, so this minor selloff is just some profit taking and sell the news trading. Same for gold. It might go test the recent support level, as far as $1375 maybe, but the bright future of gold is now clear, so again this is probably just profit taking.
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
Actually the fed cut rates and said don't expect anymore. That was the fly in the ointment.
No one believes them. They have lost all credibility, and are now just puppets of the stock and bond markets. People say they're following Trump, but that's just coincidence. The Fed cut rates because the bond market, which is much bigger than the stock market, forced their hand by lowering rates in its own. They can't let the yield curve get too inverted. Also the Fed realized they have to cut rates or the dollar will get too strong and cause crises overseas. So you could say the excessive dovishness of overseas central banks are helping force our Fed to act.

So it's not about politics, it's about financial markets, though both Trump and the markets wanted the same thing, and got it.
 

GM-GUY

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
9,155
Likes
4,397
Location
North Central Mass
A quarter point (0.25%) equates to interest on the $23 Trillion Debt of $57.5 Billion YEARLY. This means in Govt Speak - they just saved $575 Billion over 10 years.

In perspective:

42 states have a smaller yearly budget
The bottom 9 states by spending could almost be funded by this
It's almost 3 times the NASA budget

Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding
This is the Debt Service by past year and current year by month
 

richc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
15,322
Likes
16,599
Location
metrowest
This morning gold was down a lot from yesterday. Stock market took a dump yesterday but recovered this morning.

Yesterday the Fed said this is probably a one and done rate cut. Trump criticized the shortsightedness of the Fed. Stock market rallied back this morning... and then it happened.

Trump added tariffs to yet more Chinese imports. The stock market dumped once again, with the Dow dropping about 600 from its high. Gold skyrocketed up over $40/ounce.

So, the curmudgeon in me wonders if Trump announced this tariff to hurt the stock market and push risk on assets like gold and silver higher? To show the world that the Feds pronouncement about any more interest rate hikes was just wrong. In essence, for Trump to get his way?

Hmmmm..........



Let's see, since the announcement gold and silver are down. And the stock market is down.

Yeah, I'm effing thrilled!

:-(
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
11,932
Likes
4,148
Location
North Shore, MA
This morning gold was down a lot from yesterday. Stock market took a dump yesterday but recovered this morning.

Yesterday the Fed said this is probably a one and done rate cut. Trump criticized the shortsightedness of the Fed. Stock market rallied back this morning... and then it happened.

Trump added tariffs to yet more Chinese imports. The stock market dumped once again, with the Dow dropping about 600 from its high. Gold skyrocketed up over $40/ounce.

So, the curmudgeon in me wonders if Trump announced this tariff to hurt the stock market and push risk on assets like gold and silver higher? To show the world that the Feds pronouncement about any more interest rate hikes was just wrong. In essence, for Trump to get his way?

Hmmmm..........
Absolutely! I don't think he cares about gold/silver prices but definitely he's using the Fed rate cut as cover for his China action. Either he thinks the stock market is at record highs so it can take a hit, or he thinks like you said it'll force the Fed to cut more - probably both.

It's a good move, imo.
 

richc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
15,322
Likes
16,599
Location
metrowest
I'm leaning towards forcing the Fed to "consider" more cuts. Clearly a power move.

He got off to a rough start but I think Trump has finally figured out this game of politics...

:)

Absolutely! I don't think he cares about gold/silver prices but definitely he's using the Fed rate cut as cover for his China action. Either he thinks the stock market is at record highs so it can take a hit, or he thinks like you said it'll force the Fed to cut more - probably both.

It's a good move, imo.
 
Top Bottom