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Economic "Doom" Mega thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Reptile, Sep 20, 2009.

  1. Waher

    Waher NES Member

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    China making fun of our debt is laughable considering their own banking industry makes ours look like a Swiss watch in comparison. So much of the wealth that has supposedly been created there is really sequestered in party member's bank accounts and overseas real estate it isn't funny. Makes the Tsars look like saints in comparison.
     

  2. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    I wonder if they realize their own government's debt is growing so fast it'll overtake the US in just a few years.
     
  3. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

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    Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Reptile, Sep 20, 2009.
     
  4. Reptile

    Reptile NES Member

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    IT’S OVER: THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE BOTH CONSPIRING TO BANKRUPT AMERICA AND DESTROY OUR FUTURE
    If the Republicans and the Democrats both don’t care about our exploding national debt there truly is no hope

    Both major political parties are working together to destroy America’s financial future, and most Americans don’t seem to care.

    Once upon a time, the Republicans were considered to be “the party of fiscal responsibility”, but now they are just as bad as the “free spending” Democrats. As you will see below, a “compromise” budget deal was just reached which will dramatically increase federal spending and will suspend the federal debt limit until after the next election. In other words, both sides are conspiring to make our debt problem much, much worse over the next year and a half, and this should be causing howls of outrage all across America. But instead most Americans seem content to go along with the free spending ways of our political leaders, and only a handful of voices are sounding the alarm as we steamroll toward financial oblivion.

    It’s Over: The Democrats And The Republicans Are Both Conspiring To Bankrupt America And Destroy Our Future
     
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  5. GM-GUY

    GM-GUY NES Member

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    $1.23 Trillion in new debt this year. No one cares, outside of a couple good ones in the House & Senate (but they are torpedoed by both sides).

    Federal Borrowing Soars as Deficit Fear Fades

    I post this not to make a difference, but in the hopes the future will realize we weren’t all insane and won’t condemn us enmas
     
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  6. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    We're past the point of no return, really. There is no one in Washington who will cut any government program, not even Trump.

    But most other countries are going to blow up their currencies before we do, so there will be some kind of global currency reset or debt jubilee.
     
  7. GM-GUY

    GM-GUY NES Member

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    Other countries might blow first or they might see the writing on the wall and all side against us and call the debt & collect their bullion.

    Especially if their inter-country debt gets broomed in the mix. If the US gets on an excrement and radical governments hold a lot of US paper, it’s conceivable. Have you noticed the invasion going on in Europe?
     
  8. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon NES Member

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    Really? What countries might that be? Total foreign owned debt is only around 6 trillion. And we store other countries' gold for them, we have the leverage.
     
  9. GM-GUY

    GM-GUY NES Member

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    I don’t think we have that much wiggle room.

    Russia, China, Saudi & Germany could cause a major upset in the ‘value’ of US Debt.

    Remember the fit The Fed had when Germany wanted its gold back? What if all of Europe called in their gold?
     
  10. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    They are there because they have to be. Social credits. If you dont go, your social credit probably decreases.

    F***ing slaves.

    But I am also glad that at least someone is laughing at this gov. Our debt is unacceptable and we continue to spend spend spend.
     
  11. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    No one wants the US to crash. It's not convenient for them. Remember the last downturn?

    We slow.
    China slows.
    Brazil (Chinas biggest peovider) slows.
    Brazil brings down LATAM.
    Europe quickly follows.
    Other Asian countries that export to the US also follow.

    Millions of Chinese lost their jobs during the recession. The only difference is that 5-6 million here is a pretty significant number. In China, as a percentage, it doesnt sound bad at all.
     
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  12. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    The dollar hasn't been redeemable for gold since 1971 - and unfortunately for them their debt is mostly in dollars, so they need dollars to pay it off. This is keeping the dollar strong.

    I think the countries with backbones (China, Russia, Iran) are trying to side against us (replacing the petro-dollar), but it's not an easy thing. Europe's leaders have zero backbone, like ours (except Trump).
     
  13. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Not anymore - suppose China were to sell all $1 trillion of its US treasuries - Peter Schiff would by crying Doomsday! But the US central bank would just buy all of it, every last dollar. Nothing would happen. The US Fed could buy all $6 trillion of whatever of the foreign held debt.

    The Fed in a few years will be buying everything - stocks, bonds, student debt, corporate debt, municipal debt, state debt - we're going the way of Japan, whose central bank owns half their stock market.
     
  14. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    In 1 hour the Fed will start a rate cutting cycle for the first time in 10 years, and the first time ever from such a low starting point.

    Historians will look back and say it was the beginning of the end for the global financial system.

    Is anyone else excited?
     
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  15. richc

    richc NES Member

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    I think the rate cut is likely but not a done deal.

    Unemployment is at record lows. The stock market is at record highs. The US dollar is very strong.

    It feels to me like a politically motivated maneuver. Perhaps to keep the good times rolling long enough to get through the 2020 elections.

    But I'm always a skeptic...

     
  16. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Let's see, since the announcement gold and silver are down. And the stock market is down.

    Yeah, I'm effing thrilled!

    :-(


     
  17. GM-GUY

    GM-GUY NES Member

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    Well I guess interest on the Debt won’t destroy us - yet. Of course people who have money in the bank are being killed slowly by this. It also keeps increases in SSI payments down as well iirc

    How long until negative rates?
     
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  18. peterk123

    peterk123

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    I agree. Rate cuts are not used for monetary policy purposes anymore. That was evident in our refusal to really increase rates by anything meaningful during this entire recovery under two administrations. Today it is used for political purposes and to keep the stock market propped up. Heck, we should just have the Fed Rate fixed at like .5% and just take it out of the equation. Don't need it; we have Quantitative Easing to solve all of our problems. Just print it baby :)

    Inflation, eh who cares. Nobody buys anything with cash anymore anyways, so does price really matter? All we care about is what our monthly payment will be. And so what if yields on your saving account sucks. Who saves money anymore; that is just silly.
     
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  19. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Can I hire you as my financial advisor???

    :)

     
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  20. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Just noise, traders sell the news. There may be a few days of volatility.
     
  21. ASHDUMP

    ASHDUMP NES Member

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    So there was a sell off on wall street because the fed cut rates by .25% and mentioned this was just the beginning? So wall street doesn't think the economic forecast is bright? Or, just a bunch of suits all in a pickle.... stock market will be back to new normal next week?
     
  22. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Actually the fed cut rates and said don't expect anymore. That was the fly in the ointment.

     
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  23. GM-GUY

    GM-GUY NES Member

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    Just like they expected more hikes this year at the December meeting. If the numbers suck over the next couple months - they’ll cut again.

    Assigning rational thought to this system is a fools errand.
     
  24. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Wall St got everything it wanted, it didn't really want two cuts, that would stoke fears that the Fed sees something bad on the horizon. The Fed might pretend this is one and done but no one believes them, or else you'd have a 5% selloff not 1%.

    Wall St knows the Fed is doing whatever it wants, so this minor selloff is just some profit taking and sell the news trading. Same for gold. It might go test the recent support level, as far as $1375 maybe, but the bright future of gold is now clear, so again this is probably just profit taking.
     
  25. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    No one believes them. They have lost all credibility, and are now just puppets of the stock and bond markets. People say they're following Trump, but that's just coincidence. The Fed cut rates because the bond market, which is much bigger than the stock market, forced their hand by lowering rates in its own. They can't let the yield curve get too inverted. Also the Fed realized they have to cut rates or the dollar will get too strong and cause crises overseas. So you could say the excessive dovishness of overseas central banks are helping force our Fed to act.

    So it's not about politics, it's about financial markets, though both Trump and the markets wanted the same thing, and got it.
     
  26. GM-GUY

    GM-GUY NES Member

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    A quarter point (0.25%) equates to interest on the $23 Trillion Debt of $57.5 Billion YEARLY. This means in Govt Speak - they just saved $575 Billion over 10 years.

    In perspective:

    42 states have a smaller yearly budget
    The bottom 9 states by spending could almost be funded by this
    It's almost 3 times the NASA budget

    Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding
    This is the Debt Service by past year and current year by month
     
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  27. richc

    richc NES Member

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    This morning gold was down a lot from yesterday. Stock market took a dump yesterday but recovered this morning.

    Yesterday the Fed said this is probably a one and done rate cut. Trump criticized the shortsightedness of the Fed. Stock market rallied back this morning... and then it happened.

    Trump added tariffs to yet more Chinese imports. The stock market dumped once again, with the Dow dropping about 600 from its high. Gold skyrocketed up over $40/ounce.

    So, the curmudgeon in me wonders if Trump announced this tariff to hurt the stock market and push risk on assets like gold and silver higher? To show the world that the Feds pronouncement about any more interest rate hikes was just wrong. In essence, for Trump to get his way?

    Hmmmm..........



     
  28. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Absolutely! I don't think he cares about gold/silver prices but definitely he's using the Fed rate cut as cover for his China action. Either he thinks the stock market is at record highs so it can take a hit, or he thinks like you said it'll force the Fed to cut more - probably both.

    It's a good move, imo.
     
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  29. richc

    richc NES Member

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    I'm leaning towards forcing the Fed to "consider" more cuts. Clearly a power move.

    He got off to a rough start but I think Trump has finally figured out this game of politics...

    :)

     
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  30. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    The man plays a mean game of Chicken. The Fed and the Chinese are learning this.
     
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