Economic "Doom" Mega thread

Reptile

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The Federal Reserve is Playing a Shell Game with Our Money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20bFmeepGMc&feature=player_embedded

I think this is a great video that teaches people - like me - who do not have a degree in economics how the government is screwing us.

This is a great 8 minute segment about how the government is monetizing our debt. That means that money is being created out of thin air and going from one pocket to another. Ben Bernanke said that we would not do this before congress. That is exactly what is happening.

Even if you do not like Glenn Beck, he explains this very well.
 
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Great vid. I laughed when his hand puppets started talking since you stated he explained it very well. If hand puppets are what it takes for americans to get it, fine with me.
 

Edmond Dantes

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This is a great 8 minute segment [STRIKE]about how the government is monetizing our debt[/STRIKE] exemplifying how the corporate media engages in disinformation.

Even if you do not like Glenn Beck, he explains this very [STRIKE]well[/STRIKE] poorly.
I fixed it for you. He refuses to mention that the FED is actually a private bank that has taken control over our monetary policy.

Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws.— Mayer Amsched Rothchild
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence
Ever ask yourself who the US government is indebted to? It is the federal reserve. 100% of our income tax goes to pay down the interest on that national debt which is in turn funneled into the banker's pocket. Not only have we sold our nation out to these guys we're disobeying the constitution. Legalize competition. Legalize gold and silver and legalize the constitution.
 

Edmond Dantes

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I don't care what you said, you're a troll, I was simply pointing out that fact.
I Wikipedia- In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional respons or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
What I said shouldn't be considered controversial or inflammatory and definitely wasn't off topic or irrelevant and my primary intent was to inform rather than provoking an emotional response. Call me what you wish, but all I ask for is to be challenged on the facts. Plus if I'm a troll I've been here an awfully long time, a year plus.
 

radioman

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The thing about gold and silver is--- You can't eat it!! If the SHTF and you have a stack of G+S what do you do with it? Trade it? Well, what average citizen knows its value? What average citizen even knows what pure gold bullion even looks like? I think Joe Public would be scared off by bullion. I've read before that gold jewelery is better for trade than bullion because the public is familiar with it. I've never seen pure gold before but I have seen many wedding rings and gold chains.You would have to trade it at an agreed value. IMHO would be very low in a SHTF situation because it's useless for survival which will be tops on everyones mind. The best thing to do IMO is to prepare. Food, water, friends, fire sticks, etc... You can only call your government so many times before you have to decide to take care of number one!!
 

Edmond Dantes

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The thing about gold and silver is--- You can't eat it!! If the SHTF and you have a stack of G+S what do you do with it? Trade it? Well, what average citizen knows its value? What average citizen even knows what pure gold bullion even looks like? I think Joe Public would be scared off by bullion. I've read before that gold jewelery is better for trade than bullion because the public is familiar with it. I've never seen pure gold before but I have seen many wedding rings and gold chains.You would have to trade it at an agreed value. IMHO would be very low in a SHTF situation because it's useless for survival which will be tops on everyones mind. The best thing to do IMO is to prepare. Food, water, friends, fire sticks, etc... You can only call your government so many times before you have to decide to take care of number one!!
True. Which is why advocate going back to a policy of currency competition. Anyone would be able to issue money so long as others would accept it as payment for exchanges. This was common place between 1837 and 1862 in the US and is known as the free banking era. Any bank could effectively issue bills backed by gold and silver. Their validity was a product of not only the precious metals that backed them but also the banks ability to make good on their promise if the time came. You also saw private insurance companies give the consumer protection against bank runs much the same way the FDIC does today.
 

P-14

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The thing about gold and silver is--- You can't eat it!! If the SHTF and you have a stack of G+S what do you do with it? Trade it? Well, what average citizen knows its value? What average citizen even knows what pure gold bullion even looks like? I think Joe Public would be scared off by bullion. I've read before that gold jewelery is better for trade than bullion because the public is familiar with it. I've never seen pure gold before but I have seen many wedding rings and gold chains.You would have to trade it at an agreed value. IMHO would be very low in a SHTF situation because it's useless for survival which will be tops on everyones mind. The best thing to do IMO is to prepare. Food, water, friends, fire sticks, etc... You can only call your government so many times before you have to decide to take care of number one!!
See Page 6 of the Survival Checklist: http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=58896

This is what they did in Argentina when they went down the same path in 2001. You will need foreign currency and gold/silver rings and chains to get any value back when this economy crashes (based on the Argentina experience).
 

Edmond Dantes

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True. Which is why advocate going back to a policy of currency competition. Anyone would be able to issue money so long as others would accept it as payment for exchanges. This was common place between 1837 and 1862 in the US and is known as the free banking era. Any bank could effectively issue bills backed by gold and silver. Their validity was a product of not only the precious metals that backed them but also the banks ability to make good on their promise if the time came. You also saw private insurance companies give the consumer protection against bank runs much the same way the FDIC does today.
Although, I guess what you have to ask yourself is what to do in the interim. I think there is a good chance that there will always be someone around to buy gold. I think what you'll see before the government gets to a SHTF scenario is switch over to a regional currency much the same way the European Union did. In which case you could be impoverished simply because the government offers a bogus exchange rate. Gold and silver could be a useful resource in that case. I think the best advice just like with any other investment strategy is to diversify.
 

radioman

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Edmond Dantes

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One interesting thing that some forget about Argentina is that they used US dollars as one of the currencies during their crisis instead of their own.

But what happens when it's the dollar that loses value? And what do we do here in the US if that happens? Use euros? Yen? Chinese currency?

Nobody seems to have a good answer for what to do when/if the world's reserve currency (the dollar) goes t*ts up... [shocked]
Again, force the government to legalize currency competition.
 

P-14

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One interesting thing that some forget about Argentina is that they used US dollars as one of the currencies during their crisis instead of their own.

But what happens when it's the dollar that loses value? And what do we do here in the US if that happens? Use euros? Yen? Chinese currency?

Nobody seems to have a good answer for what to do when/if the world's reserve currency (the dollar) goes t*ts up... [shocked]
Pounds are in the dumper, just like the US$. I'm thinking of owning some Euros, just to hedge. Pure gold and silver will not be negotiable, but I have a some pre-1964 US coins that are 90% silver. Those may still be worth something if a crash happens (a la "Patriots" - the book).
 
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Who knows? If I could predict the future, I'd already be retired in Aruba on the beach.

But I think it's important to differentiate WHY you're investing in silver/gold. I think there are 4 major reasons, off the top of my head-

1) diversification- you want to spread your assets around to PMs, real estate, stocks, bonds, etc. to find some negative correlation when things crash

2) speculation- you are trying to "ride the wave" or play the bubble before it pops and make as much as you can before it all crashes

3) SHTF barter- when the asteroid hits/zombies attack you want something to be able to trade as "money"

4) Value store for hyperinflation- you're looking to have some "sound money" for when they print too many U.S. dollars

Each reason has its own rationale. I think sometimes here we really mix them up and confuse them, especially 3 & 4.
 

center442

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True. Which is why advocate going back to a policy of currency competition. Anyone would be able to issue money so long as others would accept it as payment for exchanges. This was common place between 1837 and 1862 in the US and is known as the free banking era. Any bank could effectively issue bills backed by gold and silver. Their validity was a product of not only the precious metals that backed them but also the banks ability to make good on their promise if the time came. You also saw private insurance companies give the consumer protection against bank runs much the same way the FDIC does today.
In theory, this works. In practice, not so much. Let's say that I held paper money, legitimately backed by gold/silver, issued by a bank in Alaska. In order to use that money as a true medium of exchange where I live, people must willingly agree on it's value. Most people would not be familiar with my Alakan Bank paper money, and would be hesitant to accept it. If they do accept it, they might only do so at a discounted rate to offset their unfamiliarity and distrust of it. This, in fact, was one of the problems with currency back in the free banking era. I haven't even touched upon the problems created by banks issuing truly worthless currency.

Years ago, I asked a class of my students what made our dollars valuable. Many thought it was because they represented gold and silver. I asked them to go home and ask their parents what 'backed up' our dollars. The overwhelming majority of their parents thought the same thing. I was met with disbelief when I tried to explain to them that the only thing backing up the American dollar was the shared belief that it had value, that it represented something 'real' even though it didn't.

This whole fantasy works as long as the participants all believe the same fantasy. Once more than a few people begin to realize that the emperor has no clothes, the whole myth starts to unravel. This is why our government will bend over backwards to keep up the illusion that our dollar has value. It's why the law requires that our dollars be accepted as payment for all debts, public and private.

You want a real SHTF scenario? Let Joe public start refusing to accept dollars as a medium of exchange. At that point it's game over for our present economic system. I think a zombie invasion would look mild by comparison.
 
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A few smart ones are preparing their own life rafts, a few powerful ones are throwing the rules out the window to buy their ticket to tomorrow, and a few crafty ones are making noise to prove their worth as cargo to the powerful ones.

The dollar is on borrowed time and the only question is how it's supplanted and in what form. When three of the four BRIC nations concur on what has to happen, then it's gonna happen.

And the Europeans aren't gonna do squat.

Again I bring this article to the forefront, take it for what ever it's worth.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/159962-china-urges-citizens-to-buy-gold-and-silver

We can argue back and fourth about value, barter, worth, my thing is have a little bit of everything as no one knows what the outcome will be. Take Iceland for instance they collapsed just a few months back and they are still functioning. Ireland is the next economy to go down. tic tic tic....
 
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A few smart ones are preparing their own life rafts, a few powerful ones are throwing the rules out the window to buy their ticket to tomorrow, and a few crafty ones are making noise to prove their worth as cargo to the powerful ones.

The dollar is on borrowed time and the only question is how it's supplanted and in what form. When three of the four BRIC nations concur on what has to happen, then it's gonna happen.

And the Europeans aren't gonna do squat.

Again I bring this article to the forefront, take it for what ever it's worth.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/159962-china-urges-citizens-to-buy-gold-and-silver

We can argue back and fourth about value, barter, worth, my thing is have a little bit of everything as no one knows what the outcome will be. Take Iceland for instance they collapsed just a few months back and they are still functioning. Ireland is the next economy to go down. tic tic tic....
You know Iceland is bad when the U.S. dollar is falling off a cliff and yet it still buys twice what it did in Iceland a year ago! Fly to Iceland and get some hot Scandinavian chicks to love while the dollar is still worth something. It's all relative. [smile]
 

cekim

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federal reserve is as federal as federal express
I hear this comment all the time, but does it really matter if they are an "private" organization acting under the protection of the US government without Constitutional constraint, oversight or other check to their power vs a government agency acting without Constitutional constraint, oversight or other check on their power?

The end result is the same...

The bottom line reality is that their board is selected by the President, they are subject to FOIA requests (though they frequently ignore them) and they have been assigned a power enumerated to the government (money supply)...

So, they are certainly NOT just a private corporation...

But, more important, it doesn't matter... They are an affront to the Constitution that needs to be dismantled regardless...

The only purpose of arguing that they are "private" is as part of the usual liberal smear campaign against those "evil corporations"...

Corporations, generally speaking can only be evil with government assistance... They need help to reach the level of "evil"...

Free markets cleanse evil rather well... You need corruption and legislation most of the time to really mess with the markets and do "evil"...
 

Edmond Dantes

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In theory, this works. In practice, not so much. Let's say that I held paper money, legitimately backed by gold/silver, issued by a bank in Alaska. In order to use that money as a true medium of exchange where I live, people must willingly agree on it's value. Most people would not be familiar with my Alakan Bank paper money, and would be hesitant to accept it. If they do accept it, they might only do so at a discounted rate to offset their unfamiliarity and distrust of it. This, in fact, was one of the problems with currency back in the free banking era. I haven't even touched upon the problems created by banks issuing truly worthless currency.
That is ridiculous. That is like saying someone can't write a check from a bank in Alaska to pay for goods in Massachusetts. Especially with today's technology you could run a bill's serial number find out that the patron really had the amount of money listed on the bill and then upon completion of the transaction the bank is then responsible for transferring the gold from the buyer to the seller's account. Banks do the same thing with fiat money everyday. Those banks are listed in some sort of registry giving them some sort of rating according to their reliability of transferring that gold and making good on their promise to both the seller and their customer. This would allow banking customers to pick the best bank while minimizing the risk to the institution accepting those bills as tender. If a patron is using a bank that is unreliable and the retailer refuses to accept it that is the customer's problem not the seller's.
 

Edmond Dantes

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The only purpose of arguing that they are "private" is as part of the usual liberal smear campaign against those "evil corporations"...
There is a difference between a liberal smear campaign and just stating the truth. And for the most part I'd say that people are smart enough to realize that and also remain cognizant of the stuff you said below. If you realize that these guys have hijacked the monetary policy of this country you can vote in politicians who will get rid of the system. Presumably, in the second scenario you described and the fed was a government agency they would be accountable as such and depending on whether it fell under the executive or legislative branch you could vote accordingly. In other words the truth will set you free.

Corporations, generally speaking can only be evil with government assistance... They need help to reach the level of "evil"...

Free markets cleanse evil rather well... You need corruption and legislation most of the time to really mess with the markets and do "evil"...
 
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I hear this comment all the time, but does it really matter if they are an "private" organization acting under the protection of the US government without Constitutional constraint, oversight or other check to their power vs a government agency acting without Constitutional constraint, oversight or other check on their power?

The end result is the same...

The bottom line reality is that their board is selected by the President, they are subject to FOIA requests (though they frequently ignore them) and they have been assigned a power enumerated to the government (money supply)...

So, they are certainly NOT just a private corporation...

But, more important, it doesn't matter... They are an affront to the Constitution that needs to be dismantled regardless...

The only purpose of arguing that they are "private" is as part of the usual liberal smear campaign against those "evil corporations"...

Corporations, generally speaking can only be evil with government assistance... They need help to reach the level of "evil"...

Free markets cleanse evil rather well... You need corruption and legislation most of the time to really mess with the markets and do "evil"...
the fed feels that it is above FOIA and has never once been audited since its inception.

the constitution gives congress the authority to coin money not to allow a private bank to print money

the purpose of me arguing that it are private is not that all corporations are evil but that it is private and its monopoly is protected by government.

you are right, the fed is evil because of the protection of the government, and yes a free market would cleanse us of this cancer
 

cekim

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the fed feels that it is above FOIA and has never once been audited since its inception.
They Fed may "feel" that way and act that way, but the courts have said otherwise...

Trouble is how do you punish God? There is no real sanction to be imposed since they were created without any oversight... [sad2]
 
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Why's Edmond being called a troll? Seems to me like he's calling for the abolishment of the Federal Reserve and the introduction of competition into the money market...
 
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