e-FA10. It's officially a mess!

[MtRiverCharlie]

That's not true. They're returning home printed ones now, even those printed from the PDF they published:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...s-of-pdf-paper-FA-10-form-rejection-by-MA-FRB

Thanks for that. I missed that thread.

 

[glide]

Another E-fa 10 trans in the books today... good stuff Glide, you should try it sometime..

No thanks. I don't work for the state.

 

[RBT]

I am still confuse wether or not we can use the paper FA10 forms without serial numbers or ALL transfers need to go via a computer.

If we to do it in a computer. Do I have to invite a stranger to my house to fill out the dam thing? It is not like there are internet cafe's all around MA like in a 3rd world country... For this reason I find this E-FA10 extremely stupid, uncomfortable and dangerous. I do not want to be inviting 4 strangers a year into my house to do transfers!

 

[turbo38gn]

I am still confuse wether or not we can use the paper FA10 forms without serial numbers or ALL transfers need to go via a computer.

If we to do it in a computer. Do I have to invite a stranger to my house to fill out the dam thing? It is not like there are internet cafe's all around MA like in a 3rd world country... For this reason I find this E-FA10 extremely stupid, uncomfortable and dangerous. I do not want to be inviting 4 strangers a year into my house to do transfers!

If you are selling, all you need is their LTC number, last name and dob and you can do it online, print it and give them a copy or mail it to them. YOU DO NOT have to meet or have anyone in your house, meet them publicly like you would any other trans..

running for cover now....

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, you can not use the unserialized paper forms. If you can find the serialized forms (local PDs are supposed to have them, most don't), you can use that. Otherwise you need to use the e-FA10 forms and CJIS doesn't care who you let in your house (I agree with you)!

 

[wchandler]

The last transfer I did I met at a dealer then just got his info. I already had the info for the gun (I was the seller). Then when I got home I recorded the transfer online and mailed him a print out after it was completed. I found it to be pretty simple. You can also e-mail the print out and the buyer could print himself. Or both which is what I did.

No sitting with the dogs, kids and strange gun buyers filling out online forms. Haha

 

[atilla]

have not had a paper FA-10 returned to me. didn't i already say somewhere that if they do return it to me i'll tell them to fold it until it's all corners and then sit on it...?

i don't see any legal requirement stating we have to use the serialized forms. if i'm wrong i need to be corrected here--so if it exists someone please cite it so i'm not putting incorrect information out there. otherwise if there is no cite i am fulfilling my legal obligation sending them a FA-10. they can write their own number on it, serial number P3N154NU5 for all i care. if they have a problem it is there problem and not mine if i am within the letter of the law.

 

[RBT]

Turbo38gn,

Thank you for the info.

I personally do not mind to have a MOLE like you to clarify the laws your agency puts out. ; )

BTW I think your real name is not "Jack" you sound like a "Jill" to me

 

[drgrant]

have not had a paper FA-10 returned to me. didn't i already say somewhere that if they do return it to me i'll tell them to fold it until it's all corners and then sit on it...?

i don't see any legal requirement stating we have to use the serialized forms. if i'm wrong i need to be corrected here--so if it exists someone please cite it so i'm not putting incorrect information out there. otherwise if there is no cite i am fulfilling my legal obligation sending them a FA-10. they can write their own number on it, serial number P3N154NU5 for all i care. if they have a problem it is there problem and not mine if i am within the letter of the law.

Well, strictly speaking, the laws says "forms provided by the director of EOPS" or some crap like that. That would seem to me they can indicate whatever form they want you to use... the thing is though, the PDF was provided by them at one point, and the claim that CHSB indeed provided this form is verifiable.

The whole thing is a pile of crap.

-Mike

 

[atilla]

typical MA gun law horse shit. pretty much exactly what i figured it would say. when they amend the law--then i'll go out of my way. if i'm in compliance i'm in compliance. i have the form they provided, i just saved it to my PC. right, that's it...

 

[turbo38gn]

Turbo38gn,

Thank you for the info.

I personally do not mind to have a MOLE like you to clarify the laws your agency puts out. ; )

BTW I think your real name is not "Jack" you sound like a "Jill" to me

www.cottonsperformance.com.... does this look like a f-ckin mole to you... for the record, I take offense to that designation, don't do it again.
If it's a joke, I'm sorry for the response, if that is the case. Otherwise KMA

 

[HTRN]

www.cottonsperformance.com.... does this look like a f-ckin mole to you... for the record, I take offense to that designation, don't do it again.
If it's a joke, I'm sorry for the response, if that is the case. Otherwise KMA

Bad link.

 

[turbo38gn]

Bad link.

fixed it, thanks... my brain was moving quicker than my fingers...

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

www.cottonsperformance.com.... does this look like a f-ckin mole to you... for the record, I take offense to that designation, don't do it again.
If it's a joke, I'm sorry for the response, if that is the case. Otherwise KMA

When did the State start selling torque converters and turbos?

 

[pdm]

Hmm. I should set up a laptop and printer in my basement and let people do FTF transfers for the price of a printout. You think the goobermint would get offended by it? I hope so.

 

[namedpipes]

I am still confuse wether or not we can use the paper FA10 forms without serial numbers or ALL transfers need to go via a computer.

If we to do it in a computer. Do I have to invite a stranger to my house to fill out the dam thing? It is not like there are internet cafe's all around MA like in a 3rd world country... For this reason I find this E-FA10 extremely stupid, uncomfortable and dangerous. I do not want to be inviting 4 strangers a year into my house to do transfers!

Just do what most of us do and conduct the transfer at the public library. They have internet connected computers you can use and usually have good lighting to read the serial numbers off the firearms.

Please post back with your results.

 

[cekim]

When did the State start selling torque converters and turbos?

It was inevitable once they got into the inspection business that they would be looking for "revenue enhancement." "Sorry Ma'am, your torque converter and turbos need to be replaces, I have to fail you, but I can install these new MA approved ones right now."

[sad2]

(would be funnier if this state didn't graduate its politicians to the big house at a rate only exceeded by Chicago)

 

[Bill Katt]

Just do what most of us do and conduct the transfer at the public library. They have internet connected computers you can use and usually have good lighting to read the serial numbers off the firearms.

Please post back with your results.

 

[RBT]

Turbo,

It was a joke, but it worth it just to see your reaction. LOL...

Thank you again for the info provided

Robert

 

[turbo38gn]

Turbo,

It was a joke, but it worth it just to see your reaction. LOL...

Thank you again for the info provided

Robert

ok, I can handle that, but ya gotta see where I'm coming from... was said a few times in this thread already.. Kinda like if I called you an Azzzzhole like 3-4 times in this thread, people might begin to believe it.. you may not appreciate it like I didn't.

 

[Smokewagon]

We really should get together and do this late each December. I can't think of a good reason *not* to use up whatever remaining legal sales I have each year.

Hey, that's a GREAT idea. Have an FA-10 party. Have some cheap $75 .22 rifle, and have 200 people all fill out consecutive FA-10's to each other on the same day. The gun wouldn't even need to be there. It could be at the first person's house, and then get delivered to the last person at the end of the day. That would be a great gimmick for the April 15 Tax protest rally in Worcester. Just have a table for people to fill FA-10's all day for the same gun.

Brilliant and hilarious at the same time.

~SW

 

[ThePreBanMan]

There is no way I would use an insecure Mass.gov website to safeguard that type of information.

I would insist that anybody who sells to me use the paper form. I'll even pay for postage and an envelope.

Just last month the Mass.gov unemployment website was hacked and hundreds of those people are now open to ID theft.

It would be a treasure trove of data to steal if hackers knew the addresses of gun owners and what guns they have.

What on Earth is the State thinking? Oh, maybe they want that to happen...

The more stolen guns, the more they can push for "gun control" for the law abiding people.

Here is the info on that though. The web site interacts with the same back end database that they enter data from paper forms into. So if the site were hacked via SQL injection or other web based attack method they would gain access to the back end database - which includes the entered paper forms information as well as online transactions. The site is secured with a 256 bit encryption SSL certificate. It would take a Cray supercomputer 15 billion years to crack that encryption and read data from your web session. Entering your data online is no less safe than the paper form. Your data is no more secure because you send it in on paper.

 

[milktree]

Here is the info on that though. The web site interacts with the same back end database that they enter data from paper forms into. So if the site were hacked via SQL injection or other web based attack method they would gain access to the back end database - which includes the entered paper forms information as well as online transactions. The site is secured with a 256 bit encryption SSL certificate. It would take a Cray supercomputer 15 billion years to crack that encryption and read data from your web session. Entering your data online is no less safe than the paper form. Your data is no more secure because you send it in on paper.

Yeabut... people screw up, software has bugs, there are always problems. The database shouldn't be accessible from the 'net *at all*. Sites *do* get hacked, and not infrequently. There are exploits to everything, eventually. Except a system that's not open.

Furthermore, the problem is only partly in the database, the other half is that they're sloppy with their certificates, so you have to click the "yea, trust this site even though we don't recognize the certificate", so there's the transport part too.

And finally, security of the data at any point is beside the real issue, which is that we should not be required to purchase and maintain expensive equipment (computers and internet service) to exercise a right.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

Here is the info on that though. The web site interacts with the same back end database that they enter data from paper forms into. So if the site were hacked via SQL injection or other web based attack method they would gain access to the back end database - which includes the entered paper forms information as well as online transactions. The site is secured with a 256 bit encryption SSL certificate. It would take a Cray supercomputer 15 billion years to crack that encryption and read data from your web session. Entering your data online is no less safe than the paper form. Your data is no more secure because you send it in on paper.

Wow, so they were too stupid to have a secondary online system which is isolated but, would push changes nightly into the back-end. That's a whole bunch of fail.

 

[Coyote33]

Here is the info on that though. The web site interacts with the same back end database that they enter data from paper forms into. ... Entering your data online is no less safe than the paper form. Your data is no more secure because you send it in on paper.

And you know this how, again? Funny, but I don't feel at all secure with them having ANY of this information. In fact, the whole premise behind it bothers the hell out of me and a LOT of other people.

Great!! Why do you support the "Enemy" in thier quest to make thier life easier and yours less so? From what I can tell there is no provision in law for GUIDO and company, to allow the use of electronic FA10's.
Bust thier balls, like they bust yours, Make them follow the law.

No kidding. Correct. And Amen!

... finally, security of the data at any point is beside the real issue, which is that we should not be required to purchase and maintain expensive equipment (computers and internet service) to exercise a right.

See the above about the whole premise!

 

[namedpipes]

Here is the info on that though. The web site interacts with the same back end database that they enter data from paper forms into. So if the site were hacked via SQL injection or other web based attack method they would gain access to the back end database - which includes the entered paper forms information as well as online transactions. The site is secured with a 256 bit encryption SSL certificate. It would take a Cray supercomputer 15 billion years to crack that encryption and read data from your web session. Entering your data online is no less safe than the paper form. Your data is no more secure because you send it in on paper.

Well, SSL was cracked last year, so there's that.

And frankly, Guida appears to have hired programmers from the bottom of the barrel, so having faith that they got ANYTHING right is a pretty big leap.

 

[cekim]

Well, SSL was cracked last year, so there's that.

And frankly, Guida appears to have hired programmers from the bottom of the barrel, so having faith that they got ANYTHING right is a pretty big leap.

Fom what I have seen so far, he hired the best and told them specifically to do it wrong.

 

[dcmdon]

Great!! Why do you support the "Enemy" in thier quest to make thier life easier and yours less so? From what I can tell there is no provision in law for GUIDO and company, to allow the use of electronic FA10's.
Bust thier balls, like they bust yours, Make them follow the law.

It's not about supporting the enemy. It's about bring truthful. His point is just that there are no security reasons not to use it. There are a hundred other legitimate reasons not to use it. Why be intellectually dishonest?

 

[cekim]

It's not about supporting the enemy. It's about bring truthful. His point is just that there are no security reasons not to use it. There are a hundred other legitimate reasons not to use it. Why be intellectually dishonest?

I haven't checked recently, does the site still trigger numerous security warnings in industry standard browsers because of its misconfiguration?

If so, then there is a security reason not to use it.

There are other possible abuses of the system by nature of its design that I will leave as an excercise for the reader rather than suggest means to compromise a system which holds my sensitive data.

A database, particularly online and vulnerable to compromise as such, of law abiding people, their vital information and possessions simply should not exist. The fact that something called Criminal History Systems Board is tracking our activity should be a hint. Politicians are much higher probability per capita of being convicted of a crime than we are, if a sex offender style database is needed, it should track them and their behavior, not ours.

 

[dcmdon]

A database, particularly online and vulnerable to compromise as such, of law abiding people, their vital information and possessions simply should not exist. The fact that something called Criminal History Systems Board is tracking our activity should be a hint. Politicians are much higher probability per capita of being convicted of a crime than we are, if a sex offender style database is needed, it should track them and their behavior, not ours.

If it accesses the same database that is used when someone from the FRB manually enters information off a paper form, then the risk is the same no matter how you do it.

Again, I'm not advocating the use of the eFA-10.

I do not address anything except, That the law as written does not appear to allow the use of an electronic filing. The FRB should held accountable to the law as written.

I agree completely. If the statute doesn't support it, it shouldn't be there.

I've got some guns I'm going to sell once I get my LTC, and intend to use a paper FA-10 for just these types of reasons.

I'm not advocating for the eFA-10. I'm just saying that we should keep our concerns intellectually honest.