Duty to notify officer that you're carrying when stopped by an officer of the law.

And then there's the demand to produce an LTC. ...
If you don't produce it,
the LEO is allowed to take your gun(*) down to the station, ...
And while I've never seen it analyzed whether or not
invoking the statute's "misplaced LTC" process
can be used by your Chief to decide that you're unsuitable...
...in the PRM, the answer is obviously: "yes".

If the officer asks if you have a gun, and you say "in the glove box" is that an accusatory question (gun not under direct control) and thus excludable as evidence when trying the driver for the lack of direct control?
Wut? Where do I go to read about such a thing?
Because I sure couldn't find the concept.

If the officer asks you if you were driving 66 MPH,
and you say "yes" is that an accusatory question (speeding)
and thus excludable as evidence when trying the driver for the speeding?


The legal gymnastics surrounding all the MA police stuff about "asking to see an LTC" are pretty complicated.... So much so that I can never remember it all.
It couldn't be simpler:

Asks: Take the Fifth with confidence.​
Demands: Cough up that LTC like a hairball.​

I remember one LEO telling me that
he couldn't just walk up to someone and ask if they had an LTC unless other tests were satisified, etc.
We've got 'em on the run, guys!
(With a little helpful "jurisprudence" from the SJC).

The police never need probable cause to ask you a question.
[bow]


The only time they can ask you a question and they might not be able to use your answer against you is after you say something like. “I choose to remain silent. I want a lawyer.” And I wouldn’t count on that.
I've seen at least one video on "How do you remain silent? By remaining silent".
ETA: Immediately after saying "I'm invoking my right to remain silent".

It's considered naughty when cops keep asking questions.
(But perhaps mainly if they get answers that are used to incriminate the detainee).

But the practical risk solidly endangers the detainee who continues to run their mouth,
because it may be considered "initiated conversation" that revokes the invoked right.


I’ve since moved mine also. My drivers license sits in its own slot now. What is a “non-goal”?
The employment of engineering resources on tasks
which are not listed in the Component Software Development Plan.

The time you spent one spent putting the LTC next to the DL
is energy wasted on something that doesn't advance The Project.


I was ... driving through Dorchester ... and I had a trooper pull me over for a no u-turn. ... Came back with a verbal warning and get the hell out of here...
That's because in Dot you need to come heavy.
He wanted you to leave town because he was busy that night,
and not realizing that you were already carrying,
was upset because he didn't have time to call around to find you a loaner piece
(the normal courtesy shown to visitors).[rofl]


On the other hand, I've been "felony-stopped" on my bike, put up against a patrol car ...
Well, of course.[rofl]

... and had my firearm removed from me while I was being searched. Cop handed me back my unloaded firearm.
Say, do pistols with electronic trigger locks allow someone to
work the slide without the RFID key?

I loaded it then and there before re-holstering it.
Definite bonus points for style.

He’s pointing out the bullshit that if you choose to do anything other than roll on your back and urinate all over yourself when a cop asks you a question that cop can then use your non-cooperativeness as proof that you have something to hide thereby justifying a deeper search.
Cops are adept at inventing pretexts for continued search whether or not you run your mouth.
But as body cams continue to roll out, a lot of the traditional
"we can make this easy or we can make this hard"
bombast may not fly anymore when replayed for a court.

Or the NES sticker
No one has yet supped in our dining room, who recognized
the gorgeous red/green plastic 3D-printed BCG ornament hanging from the chandelier
which @cockpitbob (?) kindly gave me at one of the last Framingham NES GTGs.

I would assume a police office would need probable cause to ask this question. The same as entering your car by saying "do you mind if I look in here?" you can say yes or no.
other than an NRA sticker on the car or maybe that you have an LTC, there is no real reason to ask this question to any driver going down the road that is stopped.
What am I missing here, people?

When did any jurisdiction suddenly mandate that
any cop needs to jump through any legal hoops
to ask any freaking question that pops into their head
during a traffic stop?


(Absent the development of evidence of a further crime,
they have to conduct their fishing expedition
during the period of time it would typically require
to complete a stop for the original offenses).

But as long as they are prepared to testilie that they had
free time to further question the driver
"because the computer was slow that day",
they can ask what you know about the disappearance
of Jimmy Hoffa or Judge Crater.


IANAL and I live in NH. ....so what do I know? I just read it on a legal rights site years ago. Don't ask me to cite it , i don't recall where i saw it now.
Your computer is lying to you.
Get rid of it.
Don't even sell it to an innocent person.
Just smash it.

I couldn't find the video but their was a case where an officer came up to the window of a vehicle. I believe but I'm not sure that it was in Ohio and the guy tried to tell the officer but the officer kept talking and wouldn't listen and then flipped out on the guy when he found out he was armed and if I remember correctly he said something like I should shoot you or could shoot you. Unfortunately not every situation is handled professionally.
But volunteering information he wasn't asked for
proved he was solicitous of the officer's feels![rolleyes]
 
Last edited:
The police never need probable cause to ask you a question. The only time they can ask you a question and they might not be able to use your answer against you is after you say something like. “I choose to remain silent. I want a lawyer.” And I wouldn’t count on that.


that's true I probably wrote that wrong.. I also don't need to answer or invoke my right to remain silent and raises alarm.. but there is no reason i have to answer it. I can answer a question with a question. I don't have to give a yes or no. if I say, why do you ask? i am not being argumentative, just curious.

as I said before, a favorite trick is to say "do you mind if i look in your car? you don't have to consent if there is no probable cause.

but hey, it's the internet, what do I know?
and as I said, just because I saw it on youtube doesnt mean I'd do it.
 
Last edited:
I had to follow up on the Canton Police stop mentioned in # 112. The cop was allowed to resign and paid out $40K to the officer.

Harless will receive $40,000 from the city, a neutral employment recommendation and a retired-officer ID in exchange for his resignation.

A police officer fired and later reinstated after threatening to shoot a motorist will never patrol the city’s streets again.

Daniel Harless, a 15-year veteran, will receive $40,000 from the city, a neutral employment recommendation and a retired-officer ID in exchange for his resignation as part of a legal settlement.

Harless, 47, found himself at the center of a media firestorm in 2011 when video surfaced of him threatening and berating a motorist after learning the man had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The city fired Harless in 2012 after discovering that he made similar threats during two previous traffic stops.

NOTE: This was Canton, OH not in MA.

They can make any request they want. They can request a blumpkin if the mood strikes them. Legally, I suppose they could for “ofFiCer sAfeTy” but I would tell him flat out that I’m not touching my gun.
If the officer removes it from you, most likely it will be pointed at you and I wouldn't want to bet my life on where his trigger finger is. It's an ugly situation without a really good (safe) solution.
 
I believe it’s always good to keep hands on the wheel, inform the officer you are license d to carry and have a firearm on you , in the glove compartment etc. it drops the tension and if for some reason if you’re asked to get out of the car they won’t be surprised if it is noticed. My opinion only on that part.
I couldn't disagree more. It does the opposite of "drop the tension".
 
There is or there was at that time a duty to notify in Ohio.
I'ma brain harder about how to phrase it in such jurisdictions.

I wouldn't stay mum in Maine, for instance
(even though it'd never be discovered if the situation
degraded to the point that I was getting pulled out of the car
).

The thing I need to game out is how to communicate it calmly
in the case of the officer starting off in full Hurr-Durr mode.
Which I've never experienced, but can happen to anybody.

There is the mortal temptation to give the cop one or two chances to hear you,
and then just STFU if he's flaming so loud he can't hear you.
Even more tempting if there's a body cam in the mix...
 
I'ma brain harder about how to phrase it in such jurisdictions.

I wouldn't stay mum in Maine, for instance
(even though it'd never be discovered if the situation
degraded to the point that I was getting pulled out of the car
).

The thing I need to game out is how to communicate it calmly
in the case of the officer starting off in full Hurr-Durr mode.
Which I've never experienced, but can happen to anybody.

There is the mortal temptation to give the cop one or two chances to hear you,
and then just STFU if he's flaming so loud he can't hear you.
Even more tempting if there's a body cam in the mix...
This was a case where the driver tried to do what he was supposed to do but wasn't given the chance. Maybe he should have yelled gun and pointed at the officers gun and said oh by the way officer I've got one too and it's nicer than yours. ;) [laugh] It was a tough situation I'm sure. I don't know if it's mentioned in the original post where this incident was discussed but I think he got fired but later on he was either rehired or hired elsewhere.
 
This was a case where the driver tried to do what he was supposed to do but wasn't given the chance.
The law says he has to tell the officer,
it doesn't say he has to get himself killed
in an attempt to make the officer pay attention.

In the presence of body cams, the expected worst case
if you clearly tell the cop,
if he doesn't acknowledge hearing it,
if he later tells you to get out of the car
and if you have to tell him again about the gun,
is that he jacks you up for not telling him.

That's not the worst worst case (he kills you in cold blood),
but it's the expected worst case.

But in the presence of body cams, it's all going away when
the recording proves that the cop ignored you;
effectively jacking you up on false charges.

There's even something to recommend just accepting the ride that you can't beat,
and protesting your innocence first to your attorney -
not some superior officer who may make the recording disappear.
 
Since someone necrovived the thread, I have a question for any Leo's in the house.

When you run the plate in the 5 min before you get out and come to the door, do you not get a little flag warning saying occupant has a concealed carry license?
 
Since someone necrovived the thread, I have a question for any Leo's in the house.

When you run the plate in the 5 min before you get out and come to the door, do you not get a little flag warning saying occupant has a concealed carry license?
In MA, yes . . . providing that the MDT runs CJISweb software. Most cities/towns use CJISweb these days.
 
tumblr_ojqxiroC701qmob6ro1_500.gifv
 
I'd say, "I have an LTC, and I am carrying...how do you want me to proceed?" as opposed to saying, "Yo, Pig, I'm strapped." Style points count, you know.
Call out in a loud, clear voice "I have a gun and I know how to use it!"

This conveys that you're exercising your 2a rights and you are qualified / trained.
 
When you use USPS, you have a problem.

When Amazon uses USPS, USPSA has a problem. It's the only case I know of where the USPS has actually negotiated prices and services with a customer.
 
IIRC in Maine (which is NOT Mass, for the record) there IS a duty to notify, a peculiar glitch in their CC law (unless you have a permit issued by Maine)

Worth mentioning as some of us travel around in the MA/ME/NH/VT area and it would suck if one recalled this thread and assumed it was more general.
 
Back
Top Bottom