Duty to notify officer that you're carrying when stopped by an officer of the law.

[Marty McFly]

You are not obligated under MGL to answer, but if the officer asks for your LTC and you have it with you, you are required to produce it.

Like I said before. Do alot of tactical rolls and flee

 

[TZCHRIS]

Get this CCW app, tells you everything you need to know, all states

 

[ccm75]

I'd say we've got this covered, but what the heck, it's almost New Years so lets keep it going or another week or two....

 

[AHM]

... two or three times when I have pulled my license out the LTC came with it

That's what we used to call a "non-goal".

The first time I read about that happening on NES,
I dropped everything and moved my LTC and P&RL to precisely the opposite end
of the ID stack from my Mass DL.

In mass you don’t not have to announce , but if asked you have the duty to inform the officer. I’m not sure that I’ve asked anyone who I knew had an LTC although I have asked others who did not. Sometimes they lie sometimes they don’t.

(The discussion may have moved on to make it moot, but)
you still haven't answered my question: Asked what?

• Do you own guns?
• Do you have a gun under your control?
• Do you have a gun somewhere in the car?
• Do you have an LTC?
• Do you have an LTC in your possession?
• Etc.

And then there's the demand to produce an LTC.

If you produce it, things move onwards.
If you don't produce it,
the LEO is allowed to take your gun(*) down to the station,
and you have a month to show them your LTC to get it back instantly.

(*) The law says "the gun", singular.
The fools don't say what happens if you're carrying more than one.

Also, the law requires you to respond to the demand
regardless of whether or not you're packing heat.

But the only penalty if you can't produce it but you're unarmed,
is that the cop gets to confiscate the null set of guns that you have on you,
and you can only get back the null set of guns by traipsing down to the station house
with your LTC within a month.

Really great legislation.
The more they overthink the plumbing,
the easier it is to stop up the drains.

It does. Mrs. KD and I sat it the back of a MSP cruise while the trooper showed us that we both had LTCs. I won't comment on the circumstances.
That said, I've been pulled over several times. Assuming the trooper or cop had access to LTC information, I've NEVER been asked about it.

The longer ago those latter stops happened,
the more likely that cop didn't have the data thrown in their face,
and they didn't avail themselves of the option to check.

In MA/NH I have only been asked "anything in the vehicle I need to know about?" Nope. I'm doing nothing illegal and they don't need to know about me exercising my legal rights. IF they had asked "any weapons in the car" or something similar, the answer may have been different.

Yow, I'll have to think about that trick question.

If the encounter hasn't already gone south,
maybe it's not too passive-aggressive to respond with, "like what?".

f*** no!

You're cruisin' for a bruisin' with that attitude.

What in creation makes you think that you're entitled to retain your carry piece
during a non-consensual stop
any more than some goober in Manhattan getting a patdown
is entitled to retain the mini Swiss Army Knife on his keychain?

Woodsy I believe you are incorrect. IF they determine you have a firearm on you then you are required to produce your LTC. I don't recall any part of the law that says if they ask if I have an LTC I must produce it without them first determining I have a firearm. However, if I were asked (in MA since TX has a duty to inform) I would state "I have an LTC and I am carrying."

In Mass if they ask if you have an LTC,
you can blow it off just like any other fishing expedition like, "got any weed on you?".

But in Mass if they demand that you produce your LTC,
even out of the blue,
you must show it to them.
As far as I recall, the law itself
contains no precondition that they must have
a reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime
before they can make the demand.

You are not obligated under MGL to answer, but if the officer asks for your LTC and you have it with you, you are required to produce it.

The case law is:
"Ask about LTC": you have the right to remain silent.
"Demand LTC": you must cough it up.

 

[Realtor MA]

"...inform the officer you are license d to carry and have a firearm on you , in the glove compartment etc"
That was posted early in this thread. I'm amazed that the issue of storage in the glove box hasnt been addressed. Ok? Not ok?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If the officer asks if you have a gun, and you say "in the glove box" is that an accusatory question (gun not under direct control) and thus excludable as evidence when trying the driver for the lack of direct control?

 

[Christian]

I just assume everyone is armed, and my interactions always go fine.

Same thing the retired LEO that taught my safety class said. He also added if he didn't he wasn't doing his job correctly and deserved whatever, if anything, happened to him.

 

[drgrant]

In Mass if they ask if you have an LTC,
you can blow it off just like any other fishing expedition like, "got any weed on you?".

But in Mass if they demand that you produce your LTC,
even out of the blue,
you must show it to them.
As far as I recall, the law itself
contains no precondition that they must have
a reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime
before they can make the demand.


The case law is:
"Ask about LTC": you have the right to remain silent.
"Demand LTC": you must cough it up.

The legal gymnastics surrounding all the MA police stuff about "asking to see an LTC" are pretty complicated.... So much so that I can never remember it all. I remember one LEO telling me that
he couldn't just walk up to someone and ask if they had an LTC unless other tests were satisified, etc. Of course a LOT depends on the context of the interaction
too.

 

[Sterg]

That's what we used to call a "non-goal".

The first time I read about that happening on NES,
I dropped everything and moved my LTC and P&RL to precisely the opposite end
of the ID stack from my Mass DL.

I’ve since moved mine also. My drivers license sits in its own slot now. What is a “non-goal”?

 

[SgtHal75]

There isn't one, although the last time I got stopped the rookie trooper that had pulled me over for a headlight out was kinda pissy about the fact that I didn't declare it to him immediately... so there's that.... but it's not in the law. In the past decade I had been stopped a whole bunch of times and it was never an issue except for that ONE guy, so I am going to continue to just keep my mouth shut.

It’s funny how it works sometimes. I was carrying, while driving through Dorchester of course, and I had a trooper pull me over for a no u-turn. He screamed at me for a good 30 Seconds while I handed him my shit. Came back with a verbal warning and get the hell out of here....I wasn’t carrying once on my way to Home Depot at 8 AM on a Sunday and I had a Danvers cop pull me over for going through a orange light. He ran my plate before coming up to my car and once he saw the LTC approached my vehicle like he was on patrol in Nam, hand over his Ghat ready to go. I could see him sweating while asking me for my shit. Some ppl should definitely not be cops. I’ll take the trooper screaming at me everyday, cause I really did bang that U-ee trying to get through Dot-Town as fast as possible, can u blame me.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

Are you carrying a firearm?


“why do you ask officer?”


goes to probable cause

Splain please...not following..

 

[allen-1]

Keep in mind, probably a high percentage of traffic stops has the motorist pleading their case as the officer is getting to their window; "Officer, I'm running really late to get to see my dying cat at the vet/do you know officer so and so/do you know who I am?!" etc, the majority if which they probably tune out. So when they approach and you're stating "Officer, I just want to let you know I have my LTC and have a gun on me/in the vehicle" the only word they may hear is "gun". Could go south quick. Just something to think about.

I carry two wallets, one has my license and weapons permit in it and the other has credit cards and cash. The last couple of times I've been stopped, (speeding), I follow the same procedure. Pull well off the road, windows down, interior light on if it's night, keys on the dash, id in hand and hands on the steering wheel. I answer "no" to the inevitable "do you know why I stopped you?", then hand over the wallet when asked for license.

If I'm not carrying, then I just hand over the license - rare, but it does happen when I'm traveling and in a non-permitted state. Handing over the permit with my license is s a quiet, calm way of telling them that I probably have a firearm on me. In states where there's a requirement to declare, (such as South Carolina), I state then that I've handed you my weapons permit, and I have a weapon on me.

I generally get asked where the firearm is, and told to just leave it there.

On the other hand, I've been "felony-stopped" on my bike, put up against a patrol car and had my firearm removed from me while I was being searched. Cop handed me back my unloaded firearm. I loaded it then and there before re-holstering it.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

The whole enchilada is on there, not just your LTC information.

And if the violator is an NES’r the officer might have to scroll through four or five screens..thus cutting into donut shop time..

 

[not new guy]

Splain please...not following..

He’s pointing out the bullshit that if you choose to do anything other than roll on your back and urinate all over yourself when a cop asks you a question that cop can then use your non-cooperativeness as proof that you have something to hide thereby justifying a deeper search.

The system is set up to give them plenty of bullshit excuses if they feel like going on a fishing expedition, or if they want to arrest you or fine you into oblivion (in the case of auto related stuff). If it wasn’t set up that way they’d have to hire cops who were smart enough to understand the laws they’re jacking people up with (and how far do we have to look in this thread to see that being a problem?), or they’d have to take power away from cops and let more people get away with stupid little stuff.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

They know as soon as they run your plate or drivers licenses you hold a LTC prompting them to ask or not to ask...what you do beyond that is up to you.

Or the NES sticker

 

[appraiser]

in Massachusetts, legally no, but as someone said in another thread recently a little courtesy goes a long way.

It has been a while since I have been pulled over, but I would always make it as easy a process as possible, especially since I was in the wrong 99% of the time.

Car off, interior light on if dark, windows down, hands in plain sight, a polite hello and non confrontational I'm carrying a weapon in a (shoulder holster, on my right side, in the center console) location, how would you like to proceed.... goes a LONG way in getting you out of there with the least amount of hassle possible, and in my experience that little courtesy can transform a ticket into a written warning or verbal one.

As soon as the Officer decides to pull you over, or even before, they have already run the plate and if it is registered to you they can see on the screen that you have a LTC and every interaction you have had with law enforcement for the past few years..... so when the cops asks if you have ever been pulled over, and you answer no, and the screen showed 15 hits on your name in the last month, he already knows you are not going to be co-operative.

Take the high road, be reasonable, but don't be surprised if the cop does not reciprocate.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I've been pulled over several times since 2008 and always declared my license and whether carrying.

First I was issued a license in Tennessee, where you don't have to declare but the LTC class instructor (Tom Givens @ Rangemaster) recommended it. After all, the cop will run your driver's license and know anyway when he's walking back to your car. Just say, "I have a state-issued LTC and have it on me." Don't say gun. They might even appreciate not having to discover it themselves, he advised.

So I got pulled over for speeding in Arkansas and did the declaration thing. Turns out it's required there but very few do it upon getting pulled over. The cop specifically told me he appreciated me abiding by that reg and said that was why he was letting me off with a warning.

First time I got pulled over for speeding in Mass, I was on the way to the range. Declared carrying. Cop didn't seem to care. Asked where I was headed. I nodded to the range bag on the passenger seat and said the range. Funny, he asked, "Why?" I replied, "To keep up skills." He nodded approvingly and let me off with a warning.

Second time in Mass the cop just looked at me as if to say, "Why are you telling me this?" and then let me off with a warning.

Third time...
Brewer: "By the way, I have a state-issued LTC and have it on me."
Cop: "Oh? Where?"
Brewer: "Front pocket."
Cop: "Which one?"
Brewer: "Both. Dual-carry."
Cop: *moment of delay then slow nod of approval* "Nice. Please just keep your hands on the wheel. I'm giving you a warning."

So between professionalism and declaring I've gotten a lot of warnings and a couple affirmations for carrying. Each was Rutland or Worcester, so maybe there's a bigger statist hard-on as you go east.

You got the warnings because you scared them with the dual carry.

 

[SgtHal75]

After reading through this thread I have 1 question...Has anybody been disarmed by LE during a traffic stop? For whatever reasons and did you comply? I don’t care about what the law says I Just thought I would throw that out there. I think we have beat it to death with “is it legal or not to let LE know your carrying”.

 

[allen-1]

After reading through this thread I have 1 question...Has anybody been disarmed by LE during a traffic stop? For whatever reasons and did you comply? I don’t care about what the law says I Just thought I would throw that out there. I think we have beat it to death with “is it legal or not to let LE know your carrying”.

Yes. See post 102.

 

[40 caliber]

Splain please...not following..

I would assume a police office would need probable cause to ask this question. The same as entering your car by saying "do you mind if I look in here?" you can say yes or no.

other than an NRA sticker on the car or maybe that you have an LTC, there is no real reason to ask this question to any driver going down the road that is stopped.
There is therefore no reason to answer. Futhermore if you are asked the question, aren't you curious if he has a reason or just fishing?

IANAL and I live in NH. ....so what do I know? I just read it on a legal rights site years ago. Don't ask me to cite it , i don't recall where i saw it now.

Frankly, I would probably be the guy with hands at 10 and 3 that told him when he approached., then again with my luck it's probably a first day rookie that will shoot me when I tell him LOL

 

[wahsben]

I couldn't find the video but their was a case where an officer came up to the window of a vehicle. I believe but I'm not sure that it was in Ohio and the guy tried to tell the officer but the officer kept talking and wouldn't listen and then flipped out on the guy when he found out he was armed and if I remember correctly he said something like I should shoot you or could shoot you. Unfortunately not every situation is handled professionally.

 

[ScottS]

I couldn't find the video but their was a case where an officer came up to the window of a vehicle. I believe but I'm not sure that it was in Ohio and the guy tried to tell the officer but the officer kept talking and wouldn't listen and then flipped out on the guy when he found out he was armed and if I remember correctly he said something like I should shoot you or could shoot you. Unfortunately not every situation is handled professionally.

 

[Matt_SERE]

I couldn't find the video but their was a case where an officer came up to the window of a vehicle. I believe but I'm not sure that it was in Ohio and the guy tried to tell the officer but the officer kept talking and wouldn't listen and then flipped out on the guy when he found out he was armed and if I remember correctly he said something like I should shoot you or could shoot you. Unfortunately not every situation is handled professionally.

NES original thread on this stop.

Dash Cam: Canton, OH PD "Notification" Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk | Northeastshooters.com Forums

 

[SgtHal75]

Yes. See post 102.

Wow!

 

[Parker Schreiber]

I would assume a police office would need probable cause to ask this question. The same as entering your car by saying "do you mind if I look in here?" you can say yes or no.

The police never need probable cause to ask you a question. The only time they can ask you a question and they might not be able to use your answer against you is after you say something like. “I choose to remain silent. I want a lawyer.” And I wouldn’t count on that.

 

[TJRaccoon]

I had to follow up on the Canton Police stop mentioned in # 112. The cop was allowed to resign and paid out $40K to the officer.

Harless will receive $40,000 from the city, a neutral employment recommendation and a retired-officer ID in exchange for his resignation.

A police officer fired and later reinstated after threatening to shoot a motorist will never patrol the city’s streets again.

Daniel Harless, a 15-year veteran, will receive $40,000 from the city, a neutral employment recommendation and a retired-officer ID in exchange for his resignation as part of a legal settlement.

Harless, 47, found himself at the center of a media firestorm in 2011 when video surfaced of him threatening and berating a motorist after learning the man had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The city fired Harless in 2012 after discovering that he made similar threats during two previous traffic stops.

Canton officer Daniel Harless resigns in settlement with city

Harless will receive $40,000 from the city, a neutral employment recommendation and a retired-officer ID in exchange for his resignation.

www.cantonrep.com

 

[appraiser]

retired officer ID..... LEOSA protection since he had the requisite 15 years right?

 

[Soundwave]

If they run your plate etc doesn't a flag pop up that you're licensed? My brother owed property tax or something and they sent cops to his house one morning. He went out to his car at 6am in shorts to get his cigarettes and they had a few extra cars and maybe guns out of holsters because he was licensed.

 

[AHM]

retired officer ID..... LEOSA protection since he had the requisite 15 years right?

He got the bum's rush.
Was he separated from service in good standing?

 

[Picton]

He got the bum's rush.
Was he separated from service in good standing?

"Neutral employment recommendation?"