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Dragunov??
- Thread starter seanc
- Start date
flintoid
Banned
I believe it's a Romanian PSL. Looks like a Dragunov, smells like a Dragunov, is NOT a SVD Dragunov...
PSL on top
SVD on bottom
PSL
SVD
The PSL is basically a large, reinforced AK with a beefier receiver, longer gas tube and rod, and a bigger, badder bolt. Notice how the magazine is close to the trigger guard and operates much like an AKM. Hence why I call my PSL the "retarded red headed step child AK." It is a pure Kalashnikov design.
Both rifles are gas operated and have hammer style striking systems, but the SVD's gas system is slightly different (the recoil spring is within the gas rod, or something like that). The SVD receiver is milled, not stamped like the PSL.
The SVD Dragunov is not made in the united states. Neither is the PSL. The Dragunov is no longer allowed for import in the US (here is why), so finding one is a pain in the ass. Actually, finding them is easy... it's just paying for them that sucks. They run $3k+ easy. You can find the Chinese or Russian versions, with the Russian SVDs fetching more money.
So the cheapest "dragunov" style rifle you can get right now is the PSL. But if you want to pony up, a real SVD can be had. Keep in mind that finding ammunition that would make the SVD truly shine is pretty tough. That is a rifle that you wouldn't want to just run milsurp spam can x54r through it.
I'm going to conduct an ammunition test (bulgarian surplus vs. russian surplus vs. wolf new manufacture) on my PSL hopefully this weekend. I'll be sure to post the results somewhere on this forum. It'll give you a better idea of how well a PSL can actually shoot.
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No, none are made in the US and the only available ones in country are no longer imported and rare.
There were very few imported IZHMASH SVD's and they are very expensive. The last one I saw sold for 7k.
You can hunt down a Tiger, which is a sporterized Dragunov made by the original manufacturer (IZHMASH).
The Chinese made an SVD copy in 7.62x54 and 7.62x51. The x54's are hard to come by and expensive, the .308's are more common and less expensive.
Or you can get a Romanian PSL... which is an AK based DMR that kinda looks like a Dragunov.
There were very few imported IZHMASH SVD's and they are very expensive. The last one I saw sold for 7k.
You can hunt down a Tiger, which is a sporterized Dragunov made by the original manufacturer (IZHMASH).
The Chinese made an SVD copy in 7.62x54 and 7.62x51. The x54's are hard to come by and expensive, the .308's are more common and less expensive.
Or you can get a Romanian PSL... which is an AK based DMR that kinda looks like a Dragunov.
flintoid
Banned
The PSL to an AK is like a SPR Mk12 Mod1 to the m4.
seanc
NES Member
I have actually had 2 Ndm 86s (both in 308) and one Tiger (7.62*54).. What I am angling for is really another Tiger. A real Rooskie SVD is not in the cards.
But I just wonder why a US maker has not started doing Drags. You'd think with all of the piston upper AR craze going on somebody would take the next logical step and start doing draunovs (kind of a piston AK).
But I just wonder why a US maker has not started doing Drags. You'd think with all of the piston upper AR craze going on somebody would take the next logical step and start doing draunovs (kind of a piston AK).
Perfect way to put it.
I have always wanted a real SVD or at least a Tiger... this is closest thing to a real SVD I'll ever have unless I win the lottery (auto from the designers son, Mikhail Dragunov, co-designer of the Bizon and others)...
I had hoped Arsenal Inc would in the past, but with the way their AK's are priced ($1500 for a new SA-M7), if they were to make an SVD copy, they would probably be in Tiger $$ price range if not much more.
Their are some NICE Tigers on GB converted to look like SVD's, 4k+.
Thanks.
Not to hijack the thread, but here's another (auto's from MTK)...
I had two hats given to me by MTK, but I had to sell them to pay some medical bills. [sad2]
I used to have a huge collection of AK stuff... used to
![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
seanc
NES Member
At the time I sold off my Tiger, there were no parts available to dragunov-ize them at all.
It was my understanding that the PSL is built on the RPK receivers.
It just seems odd to me that one of these makers out there don't pump out some sort of reasonable dragunov. As there are no hi caps available for them, it would be an easy AWB friendly gun (CA/NJ/MA/ etc).
It was my understanding that the PSL is built on the RPK receivers.
It just seems odd to me that one of these makers out there don't pump out some sort of reasonable dragunov. As there are no hi caps available for them, it would be an easy AWB friendly gun (CA/NJ/MA/ etc).
The PSL receivers are a beefed up version of the RPK receiver.
I'd love to see a US made Drag. There are tons of old parts just sitting in warehouses overseas waiting for an importer to bring them in. Add a US made BBL and receiver and it'd be perfect.
I'd love to see a US made Drag. There are tons of old parts just sitting in warehouses overseas waiting for an importer to bring them in. Add a US made BBL and receiver and it'd be perfect.
If it weren't for the import regs w/ Russia we could get real SVD's at a good price. I'm afraid that if a US manufacturer took on the project the cost would be at least 3k +.
If I had the cash, I'd buy this converted Tiger, a bit pricey but when you factor in the accessories (FSB, mags, furniture, etc.)...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=169614112
If I had the cash, I'd buy this converted Tiger, a bit pricey but when you factor in the accessories (FSB, mags, furniture, etc.)...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=169614112
seanc
NES Member
I'm not sure about that. If they just pumped out the guns and didn't offer the scope (which is really the downfall of the Drag). I would think they could build them for under 1k each and sell them at the competitive and attractive $1500-2k price.
flintoid
Banned
Saiga .308's shoot x51 nato, PSL shoots comblock x54r. Saiga's are made by the ruskies (receivers and all), PSLs are assembled in the US on US receivers but their parts are made by the drunken romanians (although current PSLs look pretty tight). Saiga's tend to come without muzzle brakes and have a Saiga specific front sight (same basic operation, it just has a different side profile). Most rifles don't come "converted" (which means that it has the pistol grip set up and AKM trigger group and trigger guard installed) and are in a sport rifle like configuration with it's stock. If you "convert" a saiga .308, you also need a bullet guide. (edit: actually, I'm not sure if you need this for the .308 rifle. I could be way off base with this one)
There is a Saiga .308 that comes with pistol grip, AKM trigger package from the factory, and it's called the VEPR II. I think they might be built at different plants than Izhmash though. Very nice rifle. You see many people put optics on them, dragunov style stocks and foregrips, and they look very nice. They along with converted Saigas are nicknamed "Saiga-novs." These make it across the border as they are explicitly defined in the arms ban between the old soviet states and the US as an exception. Mosin Nagants, Saigas, nagant revolvers, etc. are also listed.
The main difference is where they come from and what round they shoot and their reputation for accuracy (the saiga comes out on top, evidently, but I don't have any data to back this up, just general impressions that I get from forums). This could stem from the fact that .308 match loads are easy to come by while 7.62x54r rounds that are worth a shit are very scarce. There are a very rare few PSLs/FPKs that shoot .308 rounds, but I've never seen one personally.
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flintoid
Banned
the problem with this is that the parts are russian and they are entirely militaristic in their nature. It's the very reason why russian AK parts kits are rarer than hen's teeth. Thanks to Billy Bob Clinton, we've had this ridiculous "arms truce" where we can't sell shit to their citizens and we can't buy their military equipment. Saigas and their milsurp rifle ammo get through to us as they are labeled as "hunting arms." That's how that works out.
My dream is to assemble a Tula AK from USSR parts. But I doubt I'll see the day until I move to a shelled out eastern European nation.
You'd be surprised how many old Eastern European countries have stockpiles of parts sitting in warehouses wasting away. This includes most of the countries that fielded Russian made SVD's. I've seen a few inventory lists and they are insane.
As for Russian stuff from Russia, there is a company that has brought in a good deal of Russian stuff, labeled differently, of course.
When I was doing import, I was working on getting my licenses to import (which fell through as I lacked funding). I had a line on AK mags and SVD mags, cheek pieces and stock sets dirt cheap.
If there is a will, there's a way!
The TOZ stuff is nice for sure! I used to have some nice 6X4 bayos and AKM furniture sets in my collection.
seanc
NES Member
IMO, the triggers on the russian guns. The tiger/ vepr/ saiga (rifles) are head and shoulders above any of the import AK's as well (at least in my experience). They are lighter, smoother and lack the slop and wiggle prevalent in all but a few AKs.
flintoid
Banned
Negative. The M76 is Yugoslavian... it's made in the Yugoslavian Zastava plant... the same plant that built a ton of parts for the Iraqis for them to base their Tabuk rifles off of (basically a stamped receiver version of the m76, or rather, a DMR based off of the yugo M70). Which is not to be confused with the Al Kadesiah.
The Century rifles are probably built on US milled receivers with a US trigger group and gas piston. Probably, instead, they have a chrome lined US barrel. Just a guess, though. I have noticed that they've dropped to $1k, which is a screaming deal if you can get someone to send it to MA. I've been looking at building one and with that price, it's impractical to piece one together.
M76 Zastava
Beautiful rifles. Accurate, too, as they have milled receivers and they shoot the 8mm mauser round out of non-chromed yugo barrels. So it's not a PSL. It's an AK action based DMR, but kind of old school with the milled receiver. And it has it's own unique scope, the ZRAK, which is basically a PSOP, but entirely Yugoslavian.
It's on my radar for what I want to obtain next.
Just a heads-up, but have you seen the ejection of a spent 7.62x54r out of a PSL? When I operate mine, I know it throws cases a good 3-5 stalls over. I'm not sure what forces are entailed, but I'd seriously think twice before shooting from the right side of the rifle. It might eject straight out from the rifle, so then you would be ok. YMMV
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I agree. The triggers on them are excellent. I owned a Tiger for a short period and loved the way the trigger felt. I just couldn't justify keeping such an expensive gun around that I couldn't find parts for. Plus for zome reason I couldn't sight in the damn scope that came with it. Besides I got a great trade deal when I traded it back to ZHA where I originally bought it. If they were ever to be imported again though I would probably consider buying one again at a more reasonable price.
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