Dog Shot in Norton

I bet $100 the DNA forensics exam shows no human flesh on this pups teeth.

The $64,000 question
is whether a DNA forensics exam
would show whitetail flesh on that pup's teeth.

(Not that it makes for a legal shoot in the PRM - unlike NYS).

BTW, is there any news that the necropsy included mouth/muzzle samples?
(Or for a real can o' worms, analysis of stomach contents).

But truth be told an unattended and unrestrained domesticated dog is the last thing most hunters expect to see in the woods. BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE!

Maybe I need to get out more,
but when I first see a canine afield,
I assume by default that it is a stray dog
(not Wile E. Coyote).

On the other hand, my bicycle club currently can't resist
calling for hunter orange attire in autumn rides,
and I think it's been more than a few years since their
last off-road event.

As a side note, I used to have access to some prime hunting land in the Ozarks. The neighboring farmer actually lost a cow to a dumbass hunter and every season would mark is cattle 'cow' with dayglo orange spray paint.

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lets continue this train of absolving the shooter and blaming the dog owner. Why not? I mean, its not like the public can't get in here and see the shit attitudes some of you have, and then use that to paint all gun owners with the same brush. Oh, wait, the public CAN get in here to see.

Given the facts there isn't enough info to point any blame right now, but the immediate jump to blame the victim is disgusting, and unintelligent drivel from brainless dipshits.

Great job fellas, you really make yourselves out to look like intelligent human beings [puke]


We don't even really know if Fido died from a gun shot. Even that is somewhat speculative at this point. So, who is jumping the gun here? The family has already posted a reward for the conviction of the shooter. Really? What crime is alleged here? I'll wait until a vet actually states that the dog was shot. If the dog was shot, was it accidental or deliberate? If a hunter took a shot at a deer, but it deflected from a tree limb or rock, striking fido in the process, he may not even know such an event even happened. Frankly, I wouldn't have known about this if not for the posting here on NES.

What we do know as FACT is that the family owned a dog from a hunting pedigree. They admit that the dog frequently escaped from the home and disappeared for long amounts of time. Did they even stop to think that they could do something proactive such as leashing the dog? How about an invisible fence? Take the argument in a different direction. What would we be discussing if the dog ran out and got hit by a car? What about if the dog escaped and bit someone? Is the family on the hook for that??
 
Nobody is saying mistakes don't happen... but some of the behavior you described as the norm in the hunting community really shouldn't be. On it's face its violative of "know your target and what lies beyond it." I don't see how that somehow turns into "be pretty sure of your target when hunting because hunting is hard."

I'm in agreement with PreBan....I don't think misidentifying targets is the "norm" of the hunting community. However, after 35 years of hunting, I've learned a few things. I stay the fxck away from people for a reason. I just hunted the Wachusett hunt and it really brought the picture back to me. I kept away from groups and still had to deal with a lot of BS. Guys walking around at prime time, Guys walking in and sitting 80 yards from me, Guys shooting at deer well over 300 yards away with a beaded shotgun...yes....all of that. On one fxcking Saturday to boot. 100 guys hunting 2500 acres and it still was a shit show.

A) There are some real retards out there. Guaranteed. Maybe not 10%, but at least 2% total retards who will shoot at brown, or brown like in the bushes.

B) On top of idiots, we then talk about inexperienced (young or old) hunters looking for their first deer who can make bad decisions because they feel they need to get a shot off. THese are the people PreBan was talking about making mistakes. They are hyped up, want to kill their first deer and misidentify.

C) Guys who just shoot dogs that are running deer....lets face it, there are a certain percentage of guys who just think its wrong for dogs to run deer or be in the woods and just fxcking shoot them on sight. a**h***s maybe, but dog owners are just as at fault.


Lets face it, how many thousands of hunters and hunts happen every day during hunting season and there's what....maybe 1-3 issues yearly. No one is calling that the "norm".

Little tidbit for those guys out there that would "never" make a mistake. One time as a young shxt, I was bitching to my dad why MA makes us wear orange and other states don't and it's dumb. He told me this story......

My father who was the safest, most ethical, hunter I know, told me about one time when he was in VT, in a thicket of laurel. Of course no orange on in VT back then or even now, my father was well down hill and could only see glimpse of the head of the deer,and some brown at like 100 yards on the top of a ridge. My dad was going to take a shot, and almost did, but knew there was a cart road at the top of the hill where the deer was and it seemed weird to him that a deer would be walking right down the cart path. He walked up further got up the hill and saw red plaid pants, and nearly shit himself....turns out a guy had a deer like a backpack on carrying it out. From my father's point of view all he could see was the brown and the head.

Well Dad said he vomited right then and there. He came THAT close to killing that guy. He went on up the hill after, and helped the guy drag the deer out....told him he nearly killed him with the deer on his back and never to do that again!

So those of you that are "perfect" be careful, because if there is one person I view as a "perfect" guy for hunter safety it would be my father. If it weren't for some insane spidey sense he had, he would have blown that guy clean away on that VT hillside. The reality is, shxt happens......all that guy would have had to have a strip of orange on his arms, or on the deer and he would have been totally safe......so to this day, I don't complain about orange, and I wear it in every state, required or not.
 
I'm in agreement with PreBan....I don't think misidentifying targets is the "norm" of the hunting community. However, after 35 years of hunting, I've learned a few things. I stay the fxck away from people for a reason. I just hunted the Wachusett hunt and it really brought the picture back to me. I kept away from groups and still had to deal with a lot of BS. Guys walking around at prime time, Guys walking in and sitting 80 yards from me, Guys shooting at deer well over 300 yards away with a beaded shotgun...yes....all of that. On one fxcking Saturday to boot. 100 guys hunting 2500 acres and it still was a shit show.

I stopped doing those hunts a few years ago. Too many extra meetings and bull crap.

Bob

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lets continue this train of absolving the shooter and blaming the dog owner. Why not? I mean, its not like the public can't get in here and see the shit attitudes some of you have, and then use that to paint all gun owners with the same brush. Oh, wait, the public CAN get in here to see.

Given the facts there isn't enough info to point any blame right now, but the immediate jump to blame the victim is disgusting, and unintelligent drivel from brainless dipshits.

Great job fellas, you really make yourselves out to look like intelligent human beings [puke]

Tell me how you know for certain the dog was the " victim" ? You got Miss Cleo on retainer ?
Was the dog in the process of trying to tear someone a new ass ? Beats me and you don't know either.
Shitty dog owners like shitty parents always point the finger at everyone else but them selves.
There are any number of bad things that could happen to a pet running loose besides getting shot.
If he had got hit by a car the owners would have blamed the driver just the same.
Anything but fess up to being a shitty pet owner.
We had one guy around here who used to let his dog run loose in spite of the fact several of us warned him about the pack of coyotes in the area Bet you can't guess what happened.
It was in the summer and everyone had their windows open and heard that poor bastard squealing for a few minutes while they tore him apart.
Of course dickhead took no responsibility for it.
By the owners own admission the dog ran loose all the time , this wasn't a one time deal .
Seems like they really didn't much give a shit about the dog till now.
 
No - you're wrong. End of story. Domesticated dogs have no place being in the woods unattended, unrestrained, and running free. Especially during hunting season. And I love how people who have obviously never spent a day in the woods are going to tell others how they should conduct themselves... That would be like me telling you how to pave a driveway and that you do it wrong - without a day's worth of experience under my belt.

The fact is that the perfect ideal conditions you describe - they don't exist in the real world of gun hunting. We have a thick understory in our woods. Animals at distances beyond 20 to 30 yards are often in thick cover, moving quickly, and shooting lanes are few and far between and usually partially obstructed. That's hunting in the real world! We all have to make a judgment call at the moment of truth. We all do our best. But no one is checking to see if Fido has a collar on at distance. That's how it is nearly 100% of the time. We all have to call the ball at the moment of truth. Sometimes people make bad judgment calls. We all do our best not to. That doesn't automatically mean that person is a bad person.

But to say someone shouldn't take a shot unless it fits your description of ideal conditions - that's a fairytale land in which no hunter would ever shoot anything. Because those conditions do not exist.

all bullshit excuses for being a lazy hunter. Nice.
 
....and I'm sure if you asked any hunter they would tell you the exact same thing.... yet mistakes still happen every year. But hey - I'm sure you've never been 100% sure of something in your life - and ever been wrong about it. We should all aspire to be as perfect. [rolleyes]

I've literally seen someone take a shot at a buck and at the time I was 100% certain it was a buck. Somehow a doe that was right in front of it fell over and the buck ran away. Shit happens, and lighting and optics play tricks on you.

Also unreasonable restrictions from the PA Game Commission end up with lots of ridiculously large 6 points being mistaken for 8 points, and then you end up with a deer you weren't supposed to shoot. This fascination the PAGC has with everyone taking only trophy bucks when there's a huge overpopulation of deer in PA really makes no sense to me. Then again, they're still blocking hunters from using semi-automatic rifles for deer season, too. [rolleyes]
 
I've literally seen someone take a shot at a buck and at the time I was 100% certain it was a buck. Somehow a doe that was right in front of it fell over and the buck ran away. Shit happens, and lighting and optics play tricks on you.

My father still loves to tell the story of a case he handled in the 70s... a hunter shot a buck, which turned out to be a woman in a deer skin coat bending over to gather sticks. The "deer" had a "rack" and everything (well, I guess 2 racks). Guy swore up and down it was a buck and he could "see its eyes". Stranger than fiction. Wear orange during deer season, not a damn deer costume.
 
I've read through a lot of posts here and it seems that a lot of hunters are of the opinion that if a dog chases a deer in the woods, it deserves to be shot. Why? Is it such a big deal if some poor sap is hiking with is dog and the dog sees a deer and takes off after it? How dare the dog ruin your hunt right? It deserves death for doing what it's naturally apt to do. You guys are pricks. I used to live near conservation land that abutted state land in CT where I would hike with my dog all the time. During deer hunting season, it wasn't unheard of for moron hunters to wander from the state land where it was legal to hunt into the conservation land where it was prohibited. I'd avoid the woods entirely during that time just because I didn't want to end up charged with murder after some dickhead hunter shot my dog and I returned the favor.
 
Like it or not, running deer is not a justification for shooting a dog under MGL unless you can successfully argue that deer are your livestock.

If you think that what you declare is "right" trumps the law, you are in the same category with people who claim they do not owe income taxes of the 2A is their carry permit.
 
I've read through a lot of posts here and it seems that a lot of hunters are of the opinion that if a dog chases a deer in the woods, it deserves to be shot. Why? Is it such a big deal if some poor sap is hiking with is dog and the dog sees a deer and takes off after it? How dare the dog ruin your hunt right? It deserves death for doing what it's naturally apt to do. You guys are pricks. I used to live near conservation land that abutted state land in CT where I would hike with my dog all the time. During deer hunting season, it wasn't unheard of for moron hunters to wander from the state land where it was legal to hunt into the conservation land where it was prohibited. I'd avoid the woods entirely during that time just because I didn't want to end up charged with murder after some dickhead hunter shot my dog and I returned the favor.
Pssttt....just between you and me. You are on the Internet and the Internet is forever. You can do want you want but if it were me I wouldn't post things that can be deposed in a possible criminal case. But then again folks who use a keyboard to make threats aren't usually the brightest bulb in the box.
 
Just a quick favor please. Whoever has the evidence that the dog was chasing deer please post it up. Either that or we could stop saying the dog was chasing deer.
 
No threats were made. I merely stated that I AVOID the woods when there could be idiots with shotguns who wander from public land onto private trust land. Recognizing situations that could lead to confrontation and actively avoiding them is far from threatening.
 
No threats were made. I merely stated that I AVOID the woods when there could be idiots with shotguns who wander from public land onto private trust land. Recognizing situations that could lead to confrontation and actively avoiding them is far from threatening.
"I'd avoid the woods entirely during that time just because I didn't want to end up charged with murder after some dickhead hunter shot my dog and I returned the favor."
Any Jury in the US would indeed call this a premeditated threat.
 
I've read through a lot of posts here and it seems that a lot of hunters are of the opinion that if a dog chases a deer in the woods, it deserves to be shot. Why? Is it such a big deal if some poor sap is hiking with is dog and the dog sees a deer and takes off after it? How dare the dog ruin your hunt right? It deserves death for doing what it's naturally apt to do. You guys are pricks. I used to live near conservation land that abutted state land in CT where I would hike with my dog all the time. During deer hunting season, it wasn't unheard of for moron hunters to wander from the state land where it was legal to hunt into the conservation land where it was prohibited. I'd avoid the woods entirely during that time just because I didn't want to end up charged with murder after some dickhead hunter shot my dog and I returned the favor.
Are there specific rules that prohibit hunting on these conservation lands? Or are you under the assumption that hunting is banned on all "conservation land" ?
 
I've read through a lot of posts here and it seems that a lot of hunters are of the opinion that if a dog chases a deer in the woods, it deserves to be shot. Why? Is it such a big deal if some poor sap is hiking with is dog and the dog sees a deer and takes off after it? How dare the dog ruin your hunt right? It deserves death for doing what it's naturally apt to do. You guys are pricks. I used to live near conservation land that abutted state land in CT where I would hike with my dog all the time. During deer hunting season, it wasn't unheard of for moron hunters to wander from the state land where it was legal to hunt into the conservation land where it was prohibited. I'd avoid the woods entirely during that time just because I didn't want to end up charged with murder after some dickhead hunter shot my dog and I returned the favor.

First of all no one said they shoot at dogs that chase deer. Some said they do shoot dogs that harass their livestock. Were I a farmer I would too. I'll be damned if some irresponsible dog owner takes money out of my pocket and food off my table because they can't keep their animal under their control. Making a living at farming is hard enough already. So more power to those people. I see no wrong in doing so. So go back and re-read. Take your time this go around so your comprehension is where it needs to be.

There was another discussion that revolved around how someone COULD have made the mistake of thinking the dog was a coyote. It's open season on coyote and shooting them is perfectly legal. In fact, the state encourages it. They practically beg us to do it. They let us hunt at night, they let us use bait, they let us use electronic calls, there's no bag limit and the season is 6 months long. That's how bad the state wants them culled. I shoot coyote on sight. 99% of deer hunters do. This is especially true if coyote is chasing a fawn. A mature deer is a bit much for a coyote but the fawn predation rate is way too high in our state and coyote are the cause. The coyote population is so out of control they're coming into the suburbs and attacking cats, dogs, and raiding the chicken coops of hipsters in the burbs....

So let's just get that cleared up... Don't be so quick to call us pricks next time. Especially if you're going to spout off some ill-informed BS. It only serves to make yourself look like a fool.
 
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Are there specific rules that prohibit hunting on these conservation lands? Or are you under the assumption that hunting is banned on all "conservation land" ?
It is specifically stated on signs at the trail entrances and when you cross over from the State land. No hunting, camping or motorized vehicles. Despite that, it is easy to wander over into that land from the State forest so it was best to just avoid those trails during hunting season, or at the very least leave the dog at home and wear bright colors.
 
A few guys on the first page mentioned that they "know guys" who would shoot dogs who chase deer while they are hunting. I didn't mean to single out anybody who posted here, just those "hypothetical guys". If these hypothetical guys exist, I stand by my statement that they are pricks if they would shoot a dog on public land because it ruined their hunt. If they don't exist, good.

As far as livestock is concerned, I wouldn't argue with you. If a dog is coming on your land and killing your property you have to do what you have to do and the dog owner should be responsible to compensate you for your losses.
 
I've literally seen someone take a shot at a buck and at the time I was 100% certain it was a buck. Somehow a doe that was right in front of it fell over and the buck ran away. Shit happens, and lighting and optics play tricks on you.

Also unreasonable restrictions from the PA Game Commission end up with lots of ridiculously large 6 points being mistaken for 8 points, and then you end up with a deer you weren't supposed to shoot. This fascination the PAGC has with everyone taking only trophy bucks when there's a huge overpopulation of deer in PA really makes no sense to me. Then again, they're still blocking hunters from using semi-automatic rifles for deer season, too. [rolleyes]
I have had that happen. Luckily it was last day of any deer! Yummy meat, no antlers
 
Do you have a cite for this? I do not see any distinction in the dog shooting statute (MGL Chapter 140, Section 156)
It might not pertain to that MGL specifically, but there is a distinction defined in one of those "protecting livestock/property" laws/regs.

ETA. After some web crawling, I got nothing. I may have committed confabulation, after digging through a bunch of tax code recently.
 
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