Dog owners, tick treatment opinions?

GomerPile

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My dog had a nasty bout of lyme a few weeks ago. In the past I have been a bit lax on flea and tick treatments. I need to change that as the ticks start emerging. Been reading horror stories about advantix 2...which is what I was going to get.

What products do you all use? How big is your dog? How well do they keep ticks away?

Thanks!
 

boilermaker

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I use Vectra on my 8 month, 35 lb Brittany. We started using it late fall last year and have been pleased with it so far. I have found two ticks on the outer edge of her fur and they clearly wanted off and were not in good shape. Only thing is, it is only available through a vet. Price is comparable to advantix and frontline Application is easy and occurs once a month.
 

GomerPile

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Interesting....repels Mosquitos too!

I use Vectra on my 8 month, 35 lb Brittany. We started using it late fall last year and have been pleased with it so far. I have found two ticks on the outer edge of her fur and they clearly wanted off and were not in good shape. Only thing is, it is only available through a vet. Price is comparable to advantix and frontline Application is easy and occurs once a month.
 
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Don't buy into the hype on repels mosquitoes. The only significant disease of dogs that is transmitted by mosquitoes is heartworm. And all dogs should already be on a heartworm prevention as well. Touting that it repells mosquitoes is like saying you spray OFF on yourself everyday for fear of a mosquito bite. It's not really that important. All pyrethrin/pyrethroids repel mosquitoes, and pretty much all insects. Just be careful with what you use. I am not a fan of Vetcra and I will tell you why.

Look at the chemical formulation:

Vectra 3D: 4.95% Dinotefuran (insecticide), .44% Pyriproxyfen (insect growth regulator), 36.08% Permethrin (non-specific pesticide)

IIRC that at 37-38% Permethrin you can get toxicity issues (neurotransmitter blocker) and if you have other ailments or poor reactions it can occur at lower percentages.

Permethrin is a CHEAP, nasty, nasty chemical - that is why it does wonders on ticks, and pretty much all insects and your dogs nervous system, and yours too. The chemical is not selective to insects either, it affects you, your dog and it's heinous to the felines. Nearly all of its derivatives (in micro amounts too) all cause uncontrollable seizures in cats too. So think before you apply to your dog if you have a cat that is buddy with your dog. With small kids in the house that hug a dog, I would be wary around transfer rates to them too. Not a risk I would be willing to take.

The safest products to use are ones that are classified as insecticides (ie. insects only are affected) and not pesticides (as in that it is not specific to only insects).

I prefer to use as little pyrethrin/permethrin containing products as much as possible for the drug resistance concerns (ie super bugs) and then the toxicity issue as well.

At our clinic I use:

Frontline Plus: 9.8% Fipronil (insecticide) and 8.8% s-methoprene (insect growth regulator) - ie. very safe for all animals.
Parastar Plus: 9.8% Fipronil (insecticide) and 5.2% cyphenothrin (synthetic pyrethrin) - ie. very safe for most animals, not cats. The low level pyrethrin enhances the tick killing ability, but note the low percentage of the chemical. That is what makes it markedly more safe for animals especially if the larger size was given to a smaller dog. Cats are still a no go!

Compare - Parastar Plus 5.2% cyphenothrin vs Vetra 3D 36.08% permethrin

That is a significant jump in the permethrin/pyrethroid additive. That should indicate to you that they have to add more to make up for the fact that the other (cheaper) ingredients just don't have the killing/staying power that you would like. If they did you would be able to use a lesser and safer percentage of a permethrin. Is there ever a safe level though. I would say yes...I have used Parastar for 2 years now with clients and only seen like 1-2 that "felt ill" after. Novartis told me that in their studies that up to 7x was applied with no ill effects. Do the math - that is 7x the amount of a 5.2% solution, nearing the volume of one application of Vectra 3D. As as result it is what I use on my dog due to our tick burden on our property.

You can you Parastar Plus in the same house as cats. The directions recommend that you separate the cat and dog for 24 hours. We keep ours separated for 12 hours (off label) and we've not had an issue. I just apply it before the dog goes to bed, by morning it's dry. Problem solved.

I do recommend Frontline to all my patients first. It's by far the safest. If they are still have Tick issues I will step up to Parastar. I dropped Vectra due to the significantly high number of patients that didn't feel well after applications (ie. Permethrin toxicity) and that is seems to be less water resistant as well, esp. for those hunting/swimming dogs.

Now there is a new player to the market this past year that many on NES might like. I do and we don't carry it yet, but I intend to. It is OTC (ie. no vet needed). Soresto collars are an 8 month flea and tick collar.

Soresto Collar (for dogs and cats): 10% imidcloprid (insecticide) and 4.5% flumethrin (sythetic pyrethroid that is safe for cats)

It only releases chemicals when in contact with skin. It is water resistant. It is non-toxic when eaten. It is radiographically visible if your pet eats it. It is safe for cats. It last for 8 months. It is over the counter. And it is receiving high praise amongst the veterinary and client community. I would suggest anyone looking into flea and tick products to take a look at it.

Now I'm not a fan of collars - they do get eaten, broken, lost, etc. but man, Bayer has got a good one here.

So for those reading this...read up about what you are putting on your dog. Most of us are chemical conscious about what we are willingly exposing our children too, so think about your pets too.
 
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Dadstoys

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With any of the Frontline type treatments it's important to be faithful to the regiment.
It takes several months to build the proper level in the dogs system to be effective.
Stopping and starting will make the treatment useless.
 

GomerPile

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Seems like lots of bad reviews on Vectra too. Very few bad reviews on Frontline, and the bad ones seem to involve fake product being sold on Amazon and eBay.

I thought the mosquito repellant was a good idea because I'm in a bad area and they really drive him crazy. Not so worried about heartworm since he gets a chewable once per month. Not willing to risk some of the complications I have been reading about with Advantix and Vectra. Actually pisses me off that these people are selling shit that is know to cause issues in so many dogs.
 

Mass-diver

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Don't buy into the hype on repels mosquitoes. The only significant disease of dogs that is transmitted by mosquitoes is heartworm. And all dogs should already be on a heartworm prevention as well. Touting that it repells mosquitoes is like saying you spray OFF on yourself everyday for fear of a mosquito bite. It's not really that important. All pyrethrin/pyrethroids repel mosquitoes, and pretty much all insects. Just be careful with what you use. I am not a fan of Vetcra and I will tell you why.

Look at the chemical formulation:

Vectra 3D: 4.95% Dinotefuran (insecticide), .44% Pyriproxyfen (insect growth regulator), 36.08% Permethrin (non-specific pesticide)

IIRC that at 37-38% Permethrin you can get toxicity issues (neurotransmitter blocker) and if you have other ailments or poor reactions it can occur at lower percentages.

Permethrin is a CHEAP, nasty, nasty chemical - that is why it does wonders on ticks, and pretty much all insects and your dogs nervous system, and yours too. The chemical is not selective to insects either, it affects you, your dog and it's heinous to the felines. Nearly all of its derivatives (in micro amounts too) all cause uncontrollable seizures in cats too. So think before you apply to your dog if you have a cat that is buddy with your dog. With small kids in the house that hug a dog, I would be wary around transfer rates to them too. Not a risk I would be willing to take.

The safest products to use are ones that are classified as insecticides (ie. insects only are affected) and not pesticides (as in that it is not specific to only insects).

I prefer to use as little pyrethrin/permethrin containing products as much as possible for the drug resistance concerns (ie super bugs) and then the toxicity issue as well.

At our clinic I use:

Frontline Plus: 9.8% Fipronil (insecticide) and 8.8% s-methoprene (insect growth regulator) - ie. very safe for all animals.
Parastar Plus: 9.8% Fipronil (insecticide) and 5.2% cyphenothrin (synthetic pyrethrin) - ie. very safe for most animals, not cats. The low level pyrethrin enhances the tick killing ability, but note the low percentage of the chemical. That is what makes it markedly more safe for animals especially if the larger size was given to a smaller dog. Cats are still a no go!

Compare - Parastar Plus 5.2% cyphenothrin vs Vetra 3D 36.08% permethrin

That is a significant jump in the permethrin/pyrethroid additive. That should indicate to you that they have to add more to make up for the fact that the other (cheaper) ingredients just don't have the killing/staying power that you would like. If they did you would be able to use a lesser and safer percentage of a permethrin. Is there ever a safe level though. I would say yes...I have used Parastar for 2 years now with clients and only seen like 1-2 that "felt ill" after. Novartis told me that in their studies that up to 7x was applied with no ill effects. Do the math - that is 7x the amount of a 5.2% solution, nearing the volume of one application of Vectra 3D. As as result it is what I use on my dog due to our tick burden on our property.

You can you Parastar Plus in the same house as cats. The directions recommend that you separate the cat and dog for 24 hours. We keep ours separated for 12 hours (off label) and we've not had an issue. I just apply it before the dog goes to bed, by morning it's dry. Problem solved.

I do recommend Frontline to all my patients first. It's by far the safest. If they are still have Tick issues I will step up to Parastar. I dropped Vectra due to the significantly high number of patients that didn't feel well after applications (ie. Permethrin toxicity) and that is seems to be less water resistant as well, esp. for those hunting/swimming dogs.

Now there is a new player to the market this past year that many on NES might like. I do and we don't carry it yet, but I intend to. It is OTC (ie. no vet needed). Soresto collars are an 8 month flea and tick collar.

Soresto Collar (for dogs and cats): 10% imidcloprid (insecticide) and 4.5% flumethrin (sythetic pyrethroid that is safe for cats)

It only releases chemicals when in contact with skin. It is water resistant. It is non-toxic when eaten. It is radiographically visible if your pet eats it. It is safe for cats. It last for 8 months. It is over the counter. And it is receiving high praise amongst the veterinary and client community. I would suggest anyone looking into flea and tick products to take a look at it.

Now I'm not a fan of collars - they do get eaten, broken, lost, etc. but man, Bayer has got a good one here.

So for those reading this...read up about what you are putting on your dog. Most of us are chemical conscious about what we are willingly exposing our children too, so think about your pets too.
Nice post. Thanks doc!
 
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Nice post. Thanks doc!
No Problem. Most horror stories that the OP references are based on the type of pyrethrin used and its concentration. It's good to know what you're applying to your best friend.

But as a failsafe to your tick preventative measures, be sure to get your dog vaccinated against Lyme.
 

grizquad

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Just read quite a few bad reviews on Amazon, and a Vet supply site for the Soresto Collar. We have the dogs vaccinated for Lyme.
 
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Just read quite a few bad reviews on Amazon, and a Vet supply site for the Soresto Collar. We have the dogs vaccinated for Lyme.
Yeah - and, they like any review site they are mixed. But right now on Amazon it is 513 (5/4/3 star reviews) to 144 (2/1) star reviews - that's a 3.5/1 ratio. Hardly what I would say is enough to keep me from trying it. Plus if you read the reviews critically - the negative review issues seem that it doesn't work or their pets feel sick from the pyrethrin. Expected right? Not all flea and tick products work based on your dog's biology, flea and tick load, and the pet's husbandry (ie how often are people bathing their pets?). Not all dogs/pets will respond well to pyrethrins either, with small dogs tending to be the worst in my career. Which is what I attempted to advocate in my first post; they are dangerous chemicals. But if you are having issues with ticks and they are not responding to lesser chemicals, what are you going to do.

Me personally - if you look in the lawn care thread - we lyme vaccinate the dog, we treat the dog with parastar plus (never an issue - 88 lbs), and we treat the lawn perimeter two times a year with bifenthrin (pest control company does a fogging). If you think lyme disease is an issue for dogs - 1 in 4 people are exposed in Mass.

A good read on tick management: http://www.ct.gov/caes/lib/caes/documents/publications/bulletins/b1010.pdf
 
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My dog diagnosed with Lyme last summer, we tried Advantix, with horrible results. My dog starting going crazy shortly after application. Called hotline and the vet that answered was not surprised. No one should use this product. We went back to Frontline +
 
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Frontline +

I like Frontline Plus, I have used it on many pets, with minimal ill effects (one cat had skin irritation).

Frontline is safe and effective, just take care to purchase from a reputable source (e.g. Costco), as there are counterfeits. An advantage of Frontline and other fipronil products is the active ingredient kills the ticks rather than just repels them (so they can choose to bite you instead).

I haven't heard about flumethrin, I definitely want to research this insecticide. I fog the yard with a pyrethroid several times a year, if flumethrin is less likely to have adverse effects, I will switch.
 
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My dog had a nasty bout of lyme a few weeks ago. In the past I have been a bit lax on flea and tick treatments. I need to change that as the ticks start emerging. Been reading horror stories about advantix 2...which is what I was going to get.

What products do you all use? How big is your dog? How well do they keep ticks away?

Thanks!
I have a long haired English Springer Spaniel that loves running through brush. I do monthly applications of K9 Avantix 2 and the Sorresto collar. Last year I never found an embeded tick, some would try and latch on, but die and fall off. I would find a couple in his crate, but that was it.
 
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I like Frontline Plus, I have used it on many pets, with minimal ill effects (one cat had skin irritation).
Me too and I sell a lot of it. It's just so damn safe. But I can't stress this enough -not all products work for all pets. I had a family in California that had both dogs on FL+ and one dog was constantly covered in ticks. It was the oddest thing. It was like they never put it on the dog.

Frontline is safe and effective, just take care to purchase from a reputable source (e.g. Costco), as there are counterfeits.
True - I would say buying from your Vet is the safest, but then I'd be made out to be only after the $$. Just know your sources people.

An advantage of Frontline and other fipronil products is the active ingredient kills the ticks rather than just repels them (so they can choose to bite you instead).
Correction. Your sort of right. Fipronil does kill flea and ticks. Generally via contact, but some will bite and then die. But so do the pyrethroids. The pyrethroids just have the added potential affects on the nervous system of the mammals as well. Because of the specific rate of absorption into an insect is higher on the pyrethroid side - some insects can "feel" the chemical and actively try to avoid it. Thus they are repelled.

All tick products are geared towards killing ticks early, but if they bite at least withing 24 hours (if not sooner). Why? It takes something like 36-48 hour to transmit Lyme disease. Now would I want to chance that. Nope - so the fasted, most effective, tick killing and repelling, with least side effects product i what every company dreams to make.

I haven't heard about flumethrin, I definitely want to research this insecticide. I fog the yard with a pyrethroid several times a year, if flumethrin is less likely to have adverse effects, I will switch.
I'd never heard of it until I was learning about the collars. When I heard the collar was safe for cats, I did a "say what?". I'm not sure that it's common out in residential or agricultural uses yet.
 
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I have a long haired English Springer Spaniel that loves running through brush. I do monthly applications of K9 Avantix 2 and the Sorresto collar. Last year I never found an embeded tick, some would try and latch on, but die and fall off. I would find a couple in his crate, but that was it.
Any reason you doubled up? I would worry about 2x the pyrethrins but Bayer assured me that you can do that.

It's very rewarding to find the dead bastards on the floor or crate. We had 3 drop off and try to flee the dog once in the kitchen. Not cool! But they were dead very quickly after that.[devil2]
 
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Any reason you doubled up? I would worry about 2x the pyrethrins but Bayer assured me that you can do that.

It's very rewarding to find the dead bastards on the floor or crate. We had 3 drop off and try to flee the dog once in the kitchen. Not cool! But they were dead very quickly after that.[devil2]
I doubled up for the same reason I carry IWB and ankle, one is good, two is better [smile] In all seriousness though, the amount of time he spends in the water and sweats, the collar helps in-between the applications, I have a very hi hypo allergenic dog to the point where I have to ration my ammo so I can afford the Royal Canine $100 a bag food or else he breaks out in an itching fit. It's gotten to the point where he will itch so bad he looses hair if I feed him Blue Buffalo. With the 2X pyrethrin dosages and I see no ill effects trust me, if my dog doesn't show any symptoms, no dog will. Even my vet has wrote publications about my dog and using both products will cause no side effects.
 

center442

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No Problem. Most horror stories that the OP references are based on the type of pyrethrin used and its concentration. It's good to know what you're applying to your best friend.

But as a failsafe to your tick preventative measures, be sure to get your dog vaccinated against Lyme.
I'll be taking my pooch in this week for his annual physical and boosters. I've been using Advantix 2, (from the vet) for the past few years. The last time I spoke to her (a couple of months ago), she mentioned that they were moving away from Advantix to a new product. I don't know what it is, but I'll be finding out.

I know folks have pets that have issues with Advantix, but my dog has never had an issue with it. We tried a couple of other products, but none were as effective as Advantix. Neither I, nor the vet, ever noted any side effects from it. I hope that whatever they're switching to works as well as the Advantix.
 

GomerPile

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Um....my vet has never mentioned anything about a lyme vaccine. Is it safe and effective? My dog has been positive for lyme since I adopted him...is it only for dogs that test negative for lyme?

Now that he's had an attack of it is there any reason to vaccinate?

But as a failsafe to your tick preventative measures, be sure to get your dog vaccinated against Lyme.
 

boilermaker

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There is lots of good feedback here. Maybe Vectra is not the way to go for you but it has been very effective for my dog with no sign of side effects, so i think I will be sticking with it, but will look into Parastar Plus based on what DD posted. Vectra was recommended to me by my Vet and she says she uses it on her dogs too, which was a selling point for me.

I do have one comment on Frontline. I bird hunt here and I have a network of about 25-30 friends that bird hunt as well. When I got my pup I asked each of them what they use for tick treatment. The treatments varied but everyone that had started with Frontline (probably about 15-20 of them) had told me not to use it. Each one had felt it did not a good enough job of protecting their dog. I didn't ask them as a group but rather individually too. Maybe Frontline is good at protecting pets against picking up a tick while at the park, walking around the block or such, But all these dogs go in heavy woods/brush and all the owners that started with Frontline have switched.

I have checked out the Sorresto collar too but was hesitant to use it by itself because I worried if it truly provided full coverage to the dog, maybe leaving the hind area without adequate protection. I have heard a lot of people doubling up but had been concerned about too much toxicity too, but maybe that is not so much a concern given earlier posts.

I think sometimes you have to just pick a treatment and if it works, great, if it doesn't, switch. Gomer, the important thing is you are trying to protect your dog against lyme. This has been a good thread and hopefully more folks keep chiming in.
 

Mass-diver

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Any reason you doubled up? I would worry about 2x the pyrethrins but Bayer assured me that you can do that.

It's very rewarding to find the dead bastards on the floor or crate. We had 3 drop off and try to flee the dog once in the kitchen. Not cool! But they were dead very quickly after that.[devil2]
Could you comment on the lyme vaccine? Seems like some some vets really push it, while others think it's ineffective with some bad (potential) side effects?
 
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I know folks have pets that have issues with Advantix, but my dog has never had an issue with it. We tried a couple of other products, but none were as effective as Advantix. Neither I, nor the vet, ever noted any side effects from it. I hope that whatever they're switching to works as well as the Advantix.
My guess is that your vet is looking towards:

Activyl Plus: 13.01 % indoxacarb (old safe insecticide use in ant traps), 42.5% permethrin (pesticide).

I wholeheartedly agree with you - why change something that hasn't caused you a concern. I'm fairly certain Advantix is available without a prescription so you could realistically still use it.

I do have one comment on Frontline. I bird hunt here and I have a network of about 25-30 friends that bird hunt as well. When I got my pup I asked each of them what they use for tick treatment. The treatments varied but everyone that had started with Frontline (probably about 15-20 of them) had told me not to use it. Each one had felt it did not a good enough job of protecting their dog. I didn't ask them as a group but rather individually too. Maybe Frontline is good at protecting pets against picking up a tick while at the park, walking around the block or such, But all these dogs go in heavy woods/brush and all the owners that started with Frontline have switched.

I have checked out the Sorresto collar too but was hesitant to use it by itself because I worried if it truly provided full coverage to the dog, maybe leaving the hind area without adequate protection. I have heard a lot of people doubling up but had been concerned about too much toxicity too, but maybe that is not so much a concern given earlier posts.
That has been my client feedback as well. FL+ can seemingly be overwhelmed when put under a high tick burden. It would make sense then why Merial came out in the last 2-3 years with:

Certifect: 6.4% fipronil (insecticide), 5.8% s-methoprene (insect growth regulator), 7.6% amitraz (synthetic insecticide - with more of non-specific pesticide neuro affect when on mammals, and carcinogenic affects as well)

Not surprisingly it works really well for ticks...but I have avoided Amitraz usage for the last 10 years for the neuro toxin and carcinogenic reasons above and I'm not about to start having owner put it on their dogs now.

Could you comment on the lyme vaccine? Seems like some some vets really push it, while others think it's ineffective with some bad (potential) side effects?
Um....my vet has never mentioned anything about a lyme vaccine. Is it safe and effective? My dog has been positive for lyme since I adopted him...is it only for dogs that test negative for lyme?

Now that he's had an attack of it is there any reason to vaccinate?
Mass Driver and Gomer - there has been a lot of good data out in recent years that say it is very safe and effective. The general feeling however, is that the Lyme vaccine is not considered a CORE vaccine. But it becomes CORE when you live or travel in an endemic area. I will link a few pieces of information for you to read for yourself.

Now all vaccines can have reactions, it's the nature of a vaccine. Most are inflammatory responses and then there are the more severe allergic reactions or other immune responses. In my 3.5 years of using the Merial Recobitek Lyme vaccine (osp-a) - I have had zero reactions. The new vaccines out there are really smooth. I have heard anecdotally that the vaccines that do both osp-a and osp-c proteins in an attempt to be more protective against Lyme, seem to be more reactive because of the osp-c component. Most of the "bad side effects" that clients and vets tend hear about are via word of mouth anecdotal stories. There has been no published study that shows anything more than the common expected inflammatory responses. What's really cool about some of these vaccines is that there is research data out there showing that some ticks become "neutralized" because they fed on vaccinated blood. Thereby preventing your dog from getting sick as well as others if tick jumps ship and goes directly to a human or another dog.

One of the other things is the efficacy of vaccines. Some vaccines like Recombitek Lyme say protections is near 100% other like Duramune Lyme are in the 90's. Given that it's not all 100% across the board some vets and owners are very suspect about giving a vaccine. I on the other hand take a different outlook. If it's next best chance at minimizing a bad Lyme exposure, then I'll take a 90%+ chance on doing so.

In my experience with the Recombitek Lyme - I have had 3 dogs become positive for Lyme after vaccination. All did so within the first year. When I contacted Merial, it was made aware to me that during that first year when you are priming the immune system, you are at the most vulnerable. Makes sense. I haven't seen a dog get it post the 1 year booster mark, which falls in line with that argument as well.

You should always test your dogs before giving them the vaccine. If they have Lyme there is are protocol to follow for diagnosis and treatment. But just because they have been exposed/been treated doesn't mean you shouldn't vaccinate. IMO it means just the opposite. The question is timing. There is data out there being presented via local continuing education channels for vets from some very smart people that advocated when and when not to vaccinate for Lyme. Most of the protocols revolve around ensuring that in a positively exposed or treated pet, that treatment was actually completed and there is no evidence of kidney disease before vaccination.


Old but good information: https://www.avma.org/News/Journals/Collections/Documents/javma_223_9_1261.pdf
AAHA 2011 Canine Vaccination Guidelines: https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf


While still on subject of vaccines - for those of you not familiar with the Lyme vaccine, are you familiar with the Leptospirosis vaccine? If you are hunting with water/wildlife exposure this is probably an even more important vaccine for you. Dogs rarely die from Lyme and are easily treated with antibiotics. Leptospirosis is a devastating illness that can quickly result in permanent liver/kidney damage if not a fatality. I suggest you read up on it an talk about it with your vets.
 

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My guess is that your vet is looking towards:

Activyl Plus: 13.01 % indoxacarb (old safe insecticide use in ant traps), 42.5% permethrin (pesticide).

I wholeheartedly agree with you - why change something that hasn't caused you a concern. I'm fairly certain Advantix is available without a prescription so you could realistically still use it.
Thanks for the info. If the vet recommends something that is just as effective, but is safer for the dog, I'd be willing to give it a try. As you said, I can always switch back to the Advantix if the new stuff doesn't work out.

I just noticed on the reminder card from the vet that one of the boosters the dog is scheduled to get is for Lyme disease. I didn't even realize that he had been vaccinated for that. I'm glad that he got that shot. Even if the flea/tick preventives fail at least he has a good chance of not getting Lyme.
 

GomerPile

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I'm constantly amazed at the community here at NES. Sure I've learned a lot about guns, but I've probably learned more about things totally unrelated to guns.

Thanks to everyone for contributing....
 
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Thanks for the info. If the vet recommends something that is just as effective, but is safer for the dog, I'd be willing to give it a try. As you said, I can always switch back to the Advantix if the new stuff doesn't work out.

I just noticed on the reminder card from the vet that one of the boosters the dog is scheduled to get is for Lyme disease. I didn't even realize that he had been vaccinated for that. I'm glad that he got that shot. Even if the flea/tick preventives fail at least he has a good chance of not getting Lyme.
Two things....
1. Always ask what the ingredients are (esp. the "tick killing" one). Always be suspect of a word that end in -thrin and -prox (newer) and ask how much safer it is over the one that you are currently using. These are the pyrethrin/pyrethroid family of chemicals. Sometimes vets simply change products because the old isn't working anymore. Sometimes it's that there is a safer product out. I'm becoming highly suspect of that since they all seem to becoming more and more dangerous (but in a controlled fashion) with the addition of the pyrethrins. Sometimes it's pure business. If a product can be had through OTC channels and we can't price compete, why not look for a new product that is available through veterinary only channels.

2. The fact that you didn't know your dog was vaccinated for Lyme worries me. I'm glad he was vaccinated yes, but I wish more vets would actually take the time to explain what they are doing and vaccinating for. Not all my clients get the Lyme vaccine after I explain and recommend it to them. It's there choice to get it or not. Did you give consent to vaccinate for Lyme? I assume had to have in some fashion, but the fact that you can't recall is concerning. What if you had not wanted it after all that has been discussed.

I'm constantly amazed at the community here at NES. Sure I've learned a lot about guns, but I've probably learned more about things totally unrelated to guns.

Thanks to everyone for contributing....
+1 I concur. It's a great community with people from all walks of life and professions. That is what is so neat. While we have an interest in firearms - some more a hobby/interest than a passion - we all do different things the rest of the time.

Shameless Plug: If anyone is looking for a pro-2a vet near Boston - PM me. I've got a great group of doctors working under me. We're not cheap due our location, quality of care, and being open 7 days a week but we are honest. In a continued effort to grow clientele we've got a discount running for the first wellness visit for a new client.
 
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The wife tests all potentially hazardous materials on me before she puts them on her babies (I.e. 2 Boston's and a Pug). We use Frontline, just as our pro2A NES doc recommends. No issues with our dogs although I occasionally get the 5h##$.
 

dixidawg

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I have found Frontline + to have become nearly useless. I don't know if it is the area I live in or what, but my vet said they have gotten so many complaints that they were considering not carrying it any more. Years ago, it was pretty effective, but over time I would find more and more fully engorged and live ticks. Maybe it is because I spend so much time training and hunting with the dogs that they get exposed to so many ticks. Maybe the ticks in the area are becoming immune to it. I don't know.

It is not uncommon to find over 50 ticks on a dog after a 4 hour pheasant hunt. I spend literally hours after a hunt combing and brushing them and still find more engorged and alive days later. I wish there were a good answer.

I also wonder why now there are so many. Back in the stone age when I was a kid, we never heard of ticks in this area. They started popping up around 25 or so years ago. My "namesake" dog Dixie got very very sick back in the late 80's and we almost lost her at a young age until one of the vets suggested checking for a new thing he had heard of called Lyme...... Every dog I have owned since then have all tested positive for Lyme antibodies. My vet said they see 2 kinds of dogs; those that have had Lyme and those that will have Lyme.

I really appreciate you taking the time to post all the details about the different options currently out there. Definitely an eye opener for me.
 
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