Does anyone know what S&W specifically does to their triggers to make them mass comp?

kmanick

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I've got a shield that is a 2015. Greg Derr did the trigger for me (nice and smooth and a great crisp reset) but it
feels like it only brought it down to about 7 pounds.
Initially I was ok with this (my first carry gun and no safety) but my my other pistols (9C and an XDM 3.8C .45) have lighter
triggers and now that I've been at this for almost 2 years (I'm much more comfortable with a lighter trigger), I shoot them
much more accurately, so I'm trying to figure out if an Apex Sear will help, or the Duty kit or the actual trigger kit? I know
a lot of people say that when they put in the duty kit they leave the stock spring in because it's actually lighter than the one
that comes with the kit but would that be true of a Mass Shield as well?
Anyone know the specifics of what they do to screw up these triggers so Maura is happy?
My XDM trigger is my favorite out of the 3 but Greg also did my 9C but that one feels like it's around 5.5 pounds , and I shoot
that one one almost as well as my XDM. [thinking][thinking][thinking][thinking]
I could bring it back to Greg and may end up going that route, but I can drop in the Sear myself.....if that would help
lighten the pull, or is it the trigger return spring that S&W uses for the Mass guns that is the culprit?
 

slap shot

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Dave Santurri did mine and it's a crisp no creep 4.5 pounds. Perfect, and cheaper than the Apex. I love it.
 

kmanick

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I want to be very clear here, I have no problem with Greg's work, he's done several M&P's for me and the triggers
on them are sweet(my 9C trigger he did is awesome). I was a fairly new shooter when I brought my shield to him and I fully understand why he didn't give me a target pistol trigger on it.
I have already contacted him about this and will probably see him next Friday.
I am just curious what S&W does differently to the Mass guns than the non Mass guns and is this something I can "adjust" myself.
I have become very comfortable poking around the insides of my M&P's, and after watching the Apex videos several times, I would have no problem dropping in their sear or their aluminum flat faced trigger.
Curiosity has got me though.
What is it that Greg, Dave or Tim ar Gartman arms do to these mass triggers when they don't use Apex kits
to lighten the pull? I understand the polishing of certain parts to get rid of the Grit(my shield is not gritty at all),
but do they lighten the actual pull?
 
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Polishing will lighten pull some. Much of the grit comes from the striker blocker/safety thingy.
Can't speak to the differences between the free state version vs mass.
But I bought a Shield .45 last month. It had some grit, some creep, and at least a 10# pull by my guess.
After 1st trip to the range (~100rnds.) I took a look at the internals under magnification.
The sear looked like it has good edges and contact surfaces to me. The contact area on the striker not so much, it would was bumpy, even some pits. I figured it would take a few thousand rnds. for the gun to wear/smooth that down by itself.
I took the striker out, cleaned up the striker surface with 2500grit on a flat steel surface. Gave it a final mirror finish some mag/alum. polish again on a flat surface.
I did not change any angles. I did not touch the sear. The pull is noticeably less than what it was(wish I had a gauge to give some #'s), same amount of that slightly spongy creep as before (excessively positive sear engagement?).
Compared it side by side with a friends Shield .45 with the full Apex treatment. The Apex parts make it a completely different feel (take up, crisp break/no creep, less over travel).
Surprisingly, my polished sear version felt like it had a lighter pull than the Apex Shield. I still would take the Apex for its crisp break. Though I'm no longer in a rush to do the swap, may never get to it.
Oh and I also polished the striker block dome and trigger bar where it contacts the dome to get rid of that grit in the take up movement of the trigger.
I imagine the pro smiths change the angle on the stock sear to make it do what the Apex does.
 

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What is it that Greg, Dave or Tim ar Gartman arms do to these mass triggers when they don't use Apex kits
to lighten the pull? I understand the polishing of certain parts to get rid of the Grit(my shield is not gritty at all),
but do they lighten the actual pull?

not sure but I suspect just polishing since I didn't add any new parts.
 

wmass

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The only trigger difference between us and them is the trigger spring. Free state (standard) springs are now widely available.
 

kmanick

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Ok I looked around and found out that....
the trigger spring is heavier
the Sear spring is heavier
the sear itself is angled differently to add resistance to the pull :(
So I'm hoping Greg has some lighter springs to throw in there :)
 
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+10 on this. No kit needed. Dave cleaned up existing parts (polish, etc) and told me he could get about 4.5 to 5 lbs pull.
I haven't measured it, but it is way below what it was out of the box.
 
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