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Doctors and the guns in the house question...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by moonpup, Aug 29, 2018.

  1. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    After reading my town's FB pages for the past year or so, I've discovered that most of the resident adults of my town (almost all with 1 or more college degrees) have no clue who to call when rubbish isn't picked up, problems at the commuter rail station, about contractors working on their street (replacing gas lines), where the police/fire station is located, where town hall is located, etc. ad nauseum!

    So yes, sadly we are overrun with "well educated" (book smart), dumber than a bag of rocks (absolutely no street smarts), dolts out there that couldn't figure their way out of their own locked car in the dark.

    It's a sad world that we live in.
     
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  2. cams

    cams NES Member

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    ^^^ That goes right to the heart of the nanny state though. Let those idiots learn the hard way or fall by the wayside. Once they start falling and scratching their knees (or trying to do a police report at their local RedBox) they’ll either learn to walk and chew gum or just roll over and die. So be it. That’s the way of nature.

    I get that some people are just dumb, they’re everywhere, but when this starts becoming a gov sanctioned policy on medical patients even for a simple yearly physical, that’s just collecting information on people entirely irrelevant to the reason they’re there, for which we pay an exorbitant amount of money for a visit, and again, our gov basically telling us all that we’re idiots and can’t survive without them prying into every aspect of our lives. It’s my opinion and may be skewed but it’s still mine while I’m allowed to have one.
     
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  3. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    Yup. I see it every day.

    NESers tend to have common sense. We self-select the groups we hang out with, meaning a lot of us choose to associate with people sort of like us. So most posters here probably avoid the world’s dolts.

    But they’re out there. In droves.
     
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  4. Dadstoys

    Dadstoys NES Member

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    Once it's in any sort of computerized data base , whatever the DR.'s intentions might be are irrelevant .
    The government can take that information at will for whatever purpose they want.
    Imagine if you had the same arrogant POS for a doctor or doctors that basically kidnapped a 16 year old girl and held her in Boston against her and her family's will.
    There was another recently that the family had to pretty much had to pull off a hostage rescue for pretty much the same thing.
    No offence to our resident Docs but you know as well as the rest of us that there are some serious God complex guys out there.
     
  5. CatSnoutSoup

    CatSnoutSoup NES Member

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    "Please turn your head and cough. Hey how about getting together for a beer later?" :confused:

    :emoji_tiger:
     
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  6. BrianWilson

    BrianWilson NES Member

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    I wonder what would happen if every male who visited a doctor was questioned about their sexuality, purely on a preventative basis, as AIDS is far, far more prevalent in that subset of the population.
     
  7. 44marty

    44marty NES Member

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    I have a small revolver for pocket carry when going to doctors visits

    Never been asked the gun questions at any doctors office. Maybe it's the "Pete's Gun Shop" tee shirt ??
     
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  8. 308rifleman

    308rifleman

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    There was also the case at the Mayo Clinic where a legal age 18 year old woman had her family help her escape. The staff tried to get full custody of her as a ward with full guardianship. As the nurses tried to grab her, the stepfather intervened. Too bad he didn't whack one of these interlopers with a blackjack!
     
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  9. Boston4567

    Boston4567 NES Member

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    I get what you're saying. But when you say "This isnt an oil change nor is it legal advice and conflating the two is fallacious. Its peoples lives..." what do you mean by that?

    Are there boundaries to what your role is compared to a lawyer or a mechanic? Or does the fact that you work in medicine eliminate all boundaries because your job is to take care of people and people are affected by all things? Does the white lab coat render you more immune to the fact that other people are sovereign human beings with a right to self-determination and privacy than a suit and briefcase would?

    This is what I mean by a god complex. Your job is to provide a service for a fee. That's it. Same as a lawyer or a mechanic. You are no more valuable nor are your duties less defined or bounded than members of those professions.

    People in need of "resources and support systems" should obtain that from family, churches, and charities, in that order. If you sincerely want to delve into peoples' lives to make them better, take a leadership position in one of those institutions in your community. Don't try to use the white lab coat as cover.
     
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  10. H-minus

    H-minus NES Member

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    You would be amazed to see what I see on a weekly basis. You're right, most of my patients are normal individuals with all their knives in the drawer. Unfortunately, as there is probably everywhere, I have many patients that lack a great deal of common sense or lack resources to live their lives in a manner in which you or I take for granted.

    This is particularly true with a lot of seniors, individuals with major mental illnesses, or young, impoverished patients with kids.

    Its pretty typical on this forum that we see lots of threads talking about the latest dumbass doing something dumb with a firearm and we all comment "WTF was this person thinking". Now imagine you have 50 people like this that come to you on a regular basis for everything under the sun.

    A 20 yo young mom with a toddler at home that hears voices and refuses to take her psyche meds who just hooked up with a guy that got released from a three year vacation to the state prison on assault charges and wants you to refill her oxy prescription because she has "back pain". She tells you this in tears on a busy thursday when you have 15 patients your scheduled to see. If she doesn't get her oxy she wont be able to make it through her shift at the local dunkin donuts. You better believe I'm going to ask her every question imaginable. I don't do this to run and take the info to CPS. I do this to line her up with resources to keep her and her kid safe and healthy to the best of my ability.

    Obviously If I'm seeing a 55 yo financial adviser wearing a rolex who comes in for a refill on his gout medications and a quick physical, I'm not going to be asking about smoke detectors, guns, water safety and child proofing cabinets and drawers. I'm going to be focused on family medical history, cardiovascular health and ask about smoking and drinking habits.

    Everybody is different and I have to tailor my exams to make the most out of the brief snapshot I get of a persons life in 45 minutes or less.

    Unfortunately, I have a lot more patients with lives similar to the former than the latter example. Its not drink water, change your socks and take this 800mg motrin anymore, though many days I wish it was.
     
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  11. cams

    cams NES Member

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    Fair enough. I was replying to what I had read and that’s what I posted on, it does come across to me as .gov sticking their noses into everything now in our everyday lives and that’s concerning.

    From what you just posted sounds like you were an army medic, thank you, always loved our medics. Bravest on the field.
     
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  12. Whiskeyjim

    Whiskeyjim

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    I always wondered if "the questions" would ever come up with my long time doctor, but surprise, I recently found out he just got his LTC.
    So, I brought him to the range last week to try out different pistols, turns out he'd never handled firearms at all, so we started slowly from scratch with a 22. We worked up to 9mm and a revolver. Learning to lock open the slide was tough for him though, being both a newbie and a lefty.
    Before we left, I had him try a few rounds hitting 50yd steel with the AR.
    I'm pretty sure he had fun, he said since I taught him to shoot, he'll have to teach me how to do a rectal exam. :(
     
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  13. H-minus

    H-minus NES Member

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    See my response to cams above. Maybe this will shed a little light on what Im talking about.

    Im a pretty humble dude and with probably the furthest attitude from a "God Complex" that youre talking about. I do know some surgeons though that fit your description to a tee.

    If you think by me asking questions to promote prevention and public health is a God complex well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

    I never stated that my job was any more or less important than a mechanic or lawyer's. You did. What I mean is that it is different. Just like a network engineer's job is different than an air traffick controller's.

    If a doctor asking you questions makes you feel self conscious or inferior maybe you should consider talking to a therapist.

    Let me know. I can pm you the name of a few decent counselors.
     
  14. Boston4567

    Boston4567 NES Member

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    I take your point about DCF baby mommas types, I'm sure that's a miserable thing to deal with and that it's far too big a part of the job these days.

    I have no problem with medical professionals providing any kind of resources or help when it's solicited, or for people who are clearly in desperate need and have nowhere else to go, even if what they need help with is not medical in nature.

    I have no problem with probing personal questions that are directly relevant to a medical condition (eg, sexual history).

    I also have no problem with questions asked as follow ups based on medically relevant risk factors (eg, someone says theyre suicidal and you ask if they have access to guns).

    But how about this scenario: A patient will soon be a father/mother. He/she is healthy, intelligent, and upper middle class and is there for a physical. Do you delve into the things you described (guns, child locks, etc) unsolicited? Maybe you don't. Maybe you're not part of the problem. But for too many doctors it's just an item on a checklist they think they're entitled to use on everyone.

    The concept of "public health" is an odious one. A doctor's job is to serve an individual patient's medical health, e.g., things related to medicine. "Public health," outside of the narrow field of infectious disease, is a nonsense concept used by leftist doctors to push their nanny state policy preferences.
     
  15. H-minus

    H-minus NES Member

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    Politically, Im pretty uber conservative. I also see your point about the catchall phrase public health being used by those with liberal leanings.

    With a soon to be mom or dad like you describe I wouldn't be asking about guns or other related questions at that time because, like I had stated previously, I have very little time to discuss things of concern in order to do my job effectively. I'd save that discussion for later when the kid is reaching toddler age.

    I too am a bit paranoid when discussing things with my physician however the gun question is not one of those areas. This is because gun ownership is not a medical diagnosis or ICD code and is not typically recorded in EMRs that I have utilized with a check box or other simple method. Yes you can put it in your free text notes if you were inclined to but that takes time, something that most practitioners have very little of. Even if your doc had the time to write about it in your EMR, if the state wanted this information (if the day comes when they are allowed to violate HIPAA laws) they would have to scan an EMR with a fine toothed comb in order to find it. This also means that it would take extraordinary effort and considerable resources to find gun owners utilizing medical records.

    Why go to all this trouble? The ATF already has a much easier way to know who owns what through the NICS system. See National Tracing Center | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Yes they say it is utilized by only weapons recovered by crimes but it would only take a congressional stroke of a pen to morph that into something much more proactive. That is why this whole gun question from ones doctor is a bit overblown in my opinion. They already have the ability to trace a serial number to the end user with all legally purchased firearms.

    What I feel is of greater concern is being diagnosed with anxiety, depression, PTSD or a various other behavioral or mental health issues. When or if they decide to use medical information to deny people their rights, individuals with these conditions are going to be the low hanging fruit. As much as I hate to say it, gun owners should think long and hard about going to see their physician about getting a prescription for Xanax or other mild behavioral health concerns unless the need is overwhelming. This is where the issue lies IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  16. LTCRN

    LTCRN

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    Don't forget alcohol, prescription medication, and electrical outlets too!
     
  17. LTCRN

    LTCRN

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    Sounds like a typical liberal MA politician and Baker too!
     
  18. DarkNet

    DarkNet NES Life Member NES Member

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    I would assume that if I asked you how much you drink alcohol, if you take drugs, do you have any guns at home, are you depressed or suicidal, how often do you change the batteries in your smoke detector, do you cheat on your wife, yada yada, you would answer completely and honestly. Because obviously, it would be in my best interest as someone who is hiring you, in the medical field, to help me maintain my health, that I should know anything that might compromise your ability to do your actual job.
     
  19. once_upon_a_doobie

    once_upon_a_doobie

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    "Oooh, Doc, I see you have a new [insert S&W|Beretta|Sig|etc]! Very nice!!" usually how my doctor appointments go.
     
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  20. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    Being an old fart, I was once asked if I felt safe at home. I said no because my wife is a better shot than I am. End of discussion. Jack.
     
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  21. Dadstoys

    Dadstoys NES Member

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    Yup that's the second one I was referring to.
    Imagine if the same doctor has a hair across his ass about gun ownership.
    You might get weekend visits with your kids under supervision once the state takes custody after he/she reports you as a mental defective and unfit parent because you own guns.
     
  22. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    "No problem; but if our house is ever burgled,
    I'm telling the detectives that you knew about our guns."

    "Prison purse"?

    Nah, the exam's not gonna "end" well.

    BTW, I just realized that Clint Eastwood carries in Condition 2.

    [​IMG]

    Tragic boating accident.

    You omitted one foible.

    [​IMG]


    Doc just assumed she was glad to see him.

    [​IMG]

    And that was just for tennis elbow...
     
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  23. 308rifleman

    308rifleman

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    My wife and I told our daughters that firearms are not to be discussed outside of our home. We do not want a repeat of the incident where little Jill told our pediatrician and her nurse practitioner that we own guns.
     
  24. wahsben

    wahsben NES Life Member NES Member

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  25. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  26. fishgutzy

    fishgutzy

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    If I got asked that question and answered honestly, it would be yes there are guns in the house. No they are not locked up. In fact I leave a loaded gun on my night stand. Ammo is in the same safe with those firearms that are locked up. And some of those firearms in the safe are loaded. But they are all treated as if they are loaded. And my wife's guns are loaded too. :D

    (no kids in the house and no silly storage laws. exterior grade keyed door knobs on the BR and the room that has the hardware locker.)
     
  27. upcountry

    upcountry NES Member

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    Washben, is there a way to get a copy of that form without crawling through Google and FB?
     
  28. S&WMan

    S&WMan NES Member

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    With the new ERPO law in MA you must say a convincingly NO. If you ever show up and something bad God forbid has happened in your life. You may appear saddened, distraught, and rightly so depressed. That idiot can look back in your record and see that you own firearms. The idiot can call the PD and they can collect your firearms. Which you can say bye bye to.
     
  29. wahsben

    wahsben NES Life Member NES Member

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    Where it says view:https://etc. Underneath where it says SCRIBD you can click on that and it brings you to the form. You have to sign up to download it. I didn't sign up I just copied and pasted it on here.
     
  30. bluenose

    bluenose

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    I would have asked her if she had a d
     

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