Garys
NES Member
I think there is a lot of supposition in this thread, but not from you. Some people seem to be confusing the Seinfeld "Difficult Patient" episode with what goes on in their doctors office.
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Doctors and Asking about guns...Glob today
- Thread starter MisterHappy
- Start date
I think there is a lot of supposition in this thread, but not from you. Some people seem to be confusing the Seinfeld "Difficult Patient" episode with what goes on in their doctors office.
J
Jose
I wouldn't be past that, I assure you.
seanc
NES Member
Not really. Most doctors make lots of notes every time a patient visits.
Some of the information is used strictly for relationship building "has 8 year old, plays baseball" and "talking about getting teeth whitened" so that just before seeing you next time around they can do relationship/ rapport building "hey, Garys! your kid has to be what 9 years old by now? Wow how time flies. Is he still playing 2nd base? Wow, guess you DID have that teeth whiting done after all, what a difference looks great!"
Others will be more medically related. "complaints of all manner of jumbled symptoms that can't be proven, sounds like he read a PDR book and is looking for oxy, conclusion drug seeker, send to neurologist, let him figure this out or bounce him"
Some of this information gets entered into notes that are computerized and shared with other MDs and insurance companies.
Garys
NES Member
Please don't lecture me on a subject I very likely know way more about than you do. I've been in EMS for over 30 years, I know a lot of doctors. I've had a number of PCPs, and have had good relationships with many of them. They don't write notes on every word of an appointment. They write down anything that is medically pertinent. I've seen plenty of my own records over the years and they don't contain comments about little Johnny, teeth whitening, or anything of the sort. They do contain notes about my general health, vital signs at each visit, any specific complaints, lab results, and other boring, mundane, medical stuff.
Please keep your paranoid fantasies to yourself. You make the majority of normal gun owners look like idiots because non gunners judge us by kooks like you.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
seanc
NES Member
There is absolutely nothing paranoid or kooky about it.
It is how to run a successful business. And at the end of the day, that is what it is. A business. To stay in business you need to retain as many of your customers that you can and constantly be adding more.
Many Doctors have far too many customers that they see far too infrequently to ever possibly hope to know well. In order to build rapport and give their customers the feeling that "My MD really cares, they really know me" they make notes about stupid insignificant stuff and use it to give their customers a level of comfort. If the customer gives them the information they need openly, directly and quickly, it saves the Dr's time in assessing the root causes of any potential issue correctly.
As for the other notes. I am not going into that here. It does happen.
Twigg
NES Member
Really ? You might want to consider switching doctors then. I review mine in the examanation roon in the time between the nurse taking my vitals and the doc's apperance. He usually takes about ten minutes to show after she leaves. Plenty of time for me to review the last two or three visits.
Oh and the doc has me return the record back to the front office so I could review what just occured as well if I felt the need.
MaverickNH
NES Member
I assume they asked Wallace as a token gesture toward even treatment, then truncated his reply to make it look weak. To ask a nortoriously anti-gun Ivy-League academic as Hemenway about docs, kids & guns, and then quote a few other anti-gun docs about the dangers of guns in the home, is tremendously biased. Did they interview Kopel, Kleck and other pro-2nd A academics? No.
As usual, the journalist didn't lie, the journalist just collected quotes from others that created a lie.
As usual, the journalist didn't lie, the journalist just collected quotes from others that created a lie.
Having some very in-depth knowledge of the states and widely deployed EMR (Electronic Medical Records) systems and networks, I can tell you that the large problem here is as some have stated, THE INFO GETS RECORDED. Then shared EASILY with anyone. Some of the new state of the art EMR systems being used at large area hospitals (and all affiliated doctors are required to install the systems, this means most private practices that are affiliated in any way with the hospital) have wireless tablets that allow the doctors to record all of this info easily and clearly directly into your patient file during your visit.
Questions like, do you own firearms, are there guns in your house, do feel safe at home, have your parents ever yelled at each other, etc. are yes/no questions in the patient record. Along with any diseases you have, complaints you've had, things you've discussed etc.
Any person in this network (with the proper access) can pull it up, see all of your x-rays, any imaging, all your drugs current/past, all of your survey answers, blood test results, doctors notes, etc. etc. This information can and is being given to insurance companies, police, gov, etc.
Access to information and speed/ease of availability are a HUGE factor. Back in the day (tm) when something like this would be kept in a big paper folder in the basement, not much risk, as a lot of work had to be done to get to it. Now with info being aggregated and easily/quickly accessible to basically anybody (yes there are laws protecting medical data... lol.. but do laws stop crime?) this is a huge risk and invasion.
The old adage, you were always giving this information in the past, why should it be different now doesn't apply, as before you couldn't in 30 seconds pull up the names of almost every person in the state that answered YES to question 41 on their medical form. That would have taken months and thousands of man hours to do. Now it's a query in MRBINS fraud investigations screen.
You would be surprised at the information available and the waiver of almost ANY legal safeguards to persons engaging in insurance fraud investigations, or several other "excluded" categories. And these aren't difficult to obtain exclusions like national security, etc. (which I assume have their own exclusions). Selling the info is another loop hole.
Once your info is out there, and digitized, it's over. The classic start with a small amount, have them say yes, then once you have the info, change the rules.![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Any legislation should focus on what can be and can't be included in your medical files. They can ask what they want and will be told to pound sand, it's the answer they put into your records that the problem.
Think VERY HARD about this the next time someone sitting in front of a computer asks you a question, ANY question.
Slippery slope is a turn we've taken a long time ago...
Questions like, do you own firearms, are there guns in your house, do feel safe at home, have your parents ever yelled at each other, etc. are yes/no questions in the patient record. Along with any diseases you have, complaints you've had, things you've discussed etc.
Any person in this network (with the proper access) can pull it up, see all of your x-rays, any imaging, all your drugs current/past, all of your survey answers, blood test results, doctors notes, etc. etc. This information can and is being given to insurance companies, police, gov, etc.
Access to information and speed/ease of availability are a HUGE factor. Back in the day (tm) when something like this would be kept in a big paper folder in the basement, not much risk, as a lot of work had to be done to get to it. Now with info being aggregated and easily/quickly accessible to basically anybody (yes there are laws protecting medical data... lol.. but do laws stop crime?) this is a huge risk and invasion.
The old adage, you were always giving this information in the past, why should it be different now doesn't apply, as before you couldn't in 30 seconds pull up the names of almost every person in the state that answered YES to question 41 on their medical form. That would have taken months and thousands of man hours to do. Now it's a query in MRBINS fraud investigations screen.
You would be surprised at the information available and the waiver of almost ANY legal safeguards to persons engaging in insurance fraud investigations, or several other "excluded" categories. And these aren't difficult to obtain exclusions like national security, etc. (which I assume have their own exclusions). Selling the info is another loop hole.
Once your info is out there, and digitized, it's over. The classic start with a small amount, have them say yes, then once you have the info, change the rules.
Any legislation should focus on what can be and can't be included in your medical files. They can ask what they want and will be told to pound sand, it's the answer they put into your records that the problem.
Think VERY HARD about this the next time someone sitting in front of a computer asks you a question, ANY question.
Slippery slope is a turn we've taken a long time ago...
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I posted in one of these type of threads a long time ago that my medical offices were not asking "Are there any guns in the house". In the last month or so they have started asking, I asked why they were asking, I was told that it is because of people that have reported that they do not feel safe in there house. This is more of a abuse thing and not a "we want to no if you own a gun" thing. It sounded like people that were being abused in there own house were afraid because there were guns in the house that the abuser could use.
I answered them with this:
Yes there are guns in the house but anyfather then that is not any of this medical office buiness !!!
The nurse just "OH OK" and went on to her next question![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I answered them with this:
Yes there are guns in the house but anyfather then that is not any of this medical office buiness !!!
The nurse just "OH OK" and went on to her next question
Mark from MA
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This.. +1000.
I know one thing, for the physicals at work, we've gone from a simple one paper sheet on health questions, to a fxcking novel about your whole life experience signed under the penalties of perjury. There's a reason for that and it has to to with insurance companies using that shit against you in court.
And when .gov controls heath care.....where do you think all that database of information will go to.....hmmm....
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i havent been to the doc in a bit , but next time i go , i'll answer NO, no guns here.. then think to myself , but i do have a personal protective device ..
I just answer no to pretty much any question a doc gives these days just so insurance doesn't get my information.
no on drinking too lol... even though i will occasionally drink midori sours cause i love them.
I just answer no to pretty much any question a doc gives these days just so insurance doesn't get my information.
no on drinking too lol... even though i will occasionally drink midori sours cause i love them.
Insurance Co: Sir... we are going to deny all your claims resulting from falling down a flight of stairs because you said NO to drinking at your last physical... however we detect the sweat smell of Midori on your breath.
a smart You: I just started drinking yesterday!
a smart You: I just started drinking yesterday!
Fixxah
NES Member
This crap bugs me. How many of these gun-related deaths were due to gang violence? These jackwagons really need to remove the gang deaths from their info...we don't care if the gangs kill each other...we can only hope they do!
Random guess here.......Lowell, Lynn, Brockton, Methuen, Lawrence...or other such gang-infested towns?
![[banghead]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/045.gif "Bang Head [banghead]")
And a jackwagon is what, exactly. Seems I am one according to the rep you threw my way.
Sent from the Hyundai of the droids, the Samsung Replenish, using Tapatalk.
My doctor has an annual questionnaire which asks if there are firearms in my home. The first year I wrote that it was none of his business. He badgered me for the answer and I absolutely refused. The next year again I wrote was none of his business. By the 3rd year, he ignored the question totally. He learned a lot over the past few years!![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
seanc
NES Member
And you don't think the gov has had this information readily accessible for years already? They had access the moment this information went electronic. NIH, CDC, Etc. mine/ access all of this info on a regular basis to look for trends, collect data, make predictions, etc.
seanc
NES Member
No... what did you/ she say??
I was the last caller on the subject and I believe I opened a few eyes with some facts.
OfficerObie59
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My most favorite line of the article:
The more likley answer is that the Globe reporter wasn't aware that homicides may not necessarily be intentional (more quality reporting), or they're trying to imply guns just go blam-o on occasion without human intervention. Likely the former.
Well, as homicide is simply when a person is killed by another human being, apparently there's a spat of locked and loaded killings of humans BY animals with guns I'm unaware of.
The more likley answer is that the Globe reporter wasn't aware that homicides may not necessarily be intentional (more quality reporting), or they're trying to imply guns just go blam-o on occasion without human intervention. Likely the former.
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Garys
NES Member
Even more likely is that the Glob reporter wants the reader to think that those homicides are cases where Wally and The Beav are hanging out with Lumpy and Eddie Haskell when some homicidal NRA member shoots them down for "no reason at all". From my experience many of the "teenagers" killed are hardened gang members, many of whom have carried hand guns since they were 12 or so. We'd all like to think of teenagers as they were when we were that age, which is what the Glob editors and writers want to capitalize on. I'd like to see a breakdown of the ages, genders, and circumstances under which these "children and teenagers" were killed by firearms. Not that the Glob would ever print that information.
joeendris
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This
The big issue for me with doctors asking questions like this is what do they do with the answers that they get? Do they give names to the government? Do they keep your answer as a written record that can be at some time in the future be used against you? They can't test you for AIDS without your knowledge or consent. They can't tell the phlebotomist drawing your blood if you have AIDS. Why are they keeping information about gun ownership? Why are they asking our kids? Will that be used against a kid's parents? Gun ownership is not a medical or health related question and as far as I'm concerned it is none of their business. The NRA should block doctors asking questions like this.
This happened the last few days here=
Holyoke,
Sunday night, one murdered, TV reports gang related
Monday day, one murdered, TV reports gang related
Sound familer ???
MOONBATS, rather than ask if they have a mistress, ask them if they drive a car and then tell them how many kids (those under 21) are killed by idiots that don't know how to drive, then ask him to give up his keys.
A-Holes
