Doctor stabbed by patient at 50 Staniford St., LTC holder saves the day

johnN

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Herald Pulse
Which is more terrifying: A psych patient with a knife or an armed off-duty security guard?

67% - The psych patient with a knife, you can’t know his motivation

6% - The off-duty guard. Does he have the right training?

21% - Neither, the doctor is lucky the guard didn’t hesitate

5% - The real question is how many others are packing?
 

Reptile

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I wonder if the security guard was getting treatment at the facility. I hope the chief of his town does not pull his LTC now that he may have been outed as having a mental illness.

Legally it could happen if the chief says that the guards condition (if he has one) renders him as unsuitable.
 
F

Finalygotabeltfed

If you don't want your head to explode do NOT read the comments.

Thanks for the warning.......I can just imagine. I'll not even waste my time reading the article. My resolve to carry will never be shaken no matter how many moonbats whine.[grin]
 

Kicker96FS

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No one has asked the question, at least that I saw, was this SG one of "ours"? You know, someone here?

I thought about this last night and gosh, what a horrible thing to have to go through. IMHO, it was totally justified, but still. Imagine yourself in that situation.

My thoughts and prayers go out to both the SG and the bad guys family.

And I don't think the Mayor will have too much to say, who would understand him anyways?[wink]
 

Garys

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I wonder if the security guard was getting treatment at the facility. I hope the chief of his town does not pull his LTC now that he may have been outed as having a mental illness.

Legally it could happen if the chief says that the guards condition (if he has one) renders him as unsuitable.

If it's the building I'm thinking of it has a lot of different clinics and offices in it, not just psychiatric. It's also possible that he was with someone getting treatment or that the building has none medical offices in it. I don't know where in the building the shooting happened, so he might not have even been in an office, but in a common area.
 

Reptile

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If it's the building I'm thinking of it has a lot of different clinics and offices in it, not just psychiatric. It's also possible that he was with someone getting treatment or that the building has none medical offices in it. I don't know where in the building the shooting happened, so he might not have even been in an office, but in a common area.


No doubt that these details will be investigated.

Just speculating here, but if he was getting treatment for a mental condition- could they yank his LTC?
 
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Not in Boston, all security guards are sworn as BPD "special" officers or something IIRC

This is not true... I was a security officer in Boston for 8 years.. No formal training, only company policy training. And I was not a Special Police Officer.

The fact that this guy was a security guard holds no merit. He might as well have been a mechanic. There is no difference. Unless of course he was a Special Police Officer.. But not required.
 
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http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1207708
The bostonherald actually put this poll in their webpages (Herald Pulse)

Which is more terrifying: A psych patient with a knife or an armed off-duty security guard?
1>The psych patient with a knife, you can’t know his motivation
2>The off-duty guard. Does he have the right training?
3>Neither, the doctor is lucky the guard didn’t hesitate
4>The real question is how many others are packing?


(results of the voting are not visible)

The should have had a 5th option:

"Anyone who voted 'B' or 'D'. These people don't just vote in online polls, you know!"
 
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Hmmmm, back in the 80's I had a part time job as a security guard in Acton. I was basically paid to sit around and watch TV and do my college course work for a few hours on the weekend.

Maybe it's time to look into that again........
 

jcr

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What level of LTC is allowed in Reading? It's listed here as a "red" town. Davis emphasized (loudly) the guy's trained security guard status. Does anyone know if he was restricted to work only?
First, we have nothing more than pure rumor that the the LTC carrier, who saved the doctor, is actually from Reading.

If anyone has reliable info regarding the particulars of the hero, this would be the place to post them.

FWIW, whomever the guy is, he is completely doing the right thing by assuming a low profile. No good would come from getting out in front of the cameras, until a careful analysis of the message, and until every tabloid news organization moves onto something else.

Second, Reading does issue unrestricted LTC-A, and has done so for 15 years -- even for first time applicants. They have had annoying, stickler, requirements for applicants. It's not clear whether or not they are just "good" bureaucrats.

Again, this sub-discussion could be completely irrelevant as we only know for sure that the stabbing attacker is from Reading.

If his four kids are in the local elementary school, I can't imagine what a horribly sad place that is today.
 
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JCR, I had a very similar question regarding both people being from Reading. I made the mistake of reading the comments, I only read the Herald and more than a few people were screaming the guard should be in jail.
 
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The security guard was named as Paul Lagone of Reading by Fox 25 News. Last night, a police cruiser was parked outside his house, and the family declined comment. Lagone’s father and brother told Fox he heard the doctor’s screams and broke through her office door. He told Carciero to drop the knife, and when Carciero lunged at him, Lagone shot him. He used his sweater to stem Desrosiers’ bleeding.
 

terraformer

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JCR, I had a very similar question regarding both people being from Reading. I made the mistake of reading the comments, I only read the Herald and more than a few people were screaming the guard should be in jail.

As much as I want to think otherwise, these people are beyond any earthly help... [rolleyes][sad2]
 
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The security guard was named as Paul Lagone of Reading by Fox 25 News. Last night, a police cruiser was parked outside his house, and the family declined comment. Lagone’s father and brother told Fox he heard the doctor’s screams and broke through her office door. He told Carciero to drop the knife, and when Carciero lunged at him, Lagone shot him. He used his sweater to stem Desrosiers’ bleeding.

[sarcasm/]

Clearly he was a vigilante who's only reason for having a weapon was to make him feel more like a man. He was out for blood that day.

[/sarcasm]


Would love to buy that man a beer.
 

M1911

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From the Boston Herald:

“It was gonna take a gun to bring him down,” said a first responder. Lagone, who was not officially identified, shot Carciero three times - once in the head and twice in the torso - the first responder said.

Nice shooting, Mr. Lagone. I suspect that the order of the impact locations was reversed from what the Herald wrote, however -- two to the chest and one to the head.
 
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Unbelievable, this guy saves her life and possibly the lives of others in that clinic and some idiots are calling for his arrest! [angry]

WTF world do these people live in? I mean really live in? How sheltered are they?

I grew up about as far from the 'mean streets' as anyone could with loving and slightly over-protective parents and I know that you've got to take care of yourself because only an idiot would depend on someone else in that situation.
 

seanc

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Unfortunately, I think "we" lost on this one.

As already pointed out, the media is focusing on the "security guard" aspect of this.

They have essentially elevated him to the level of a LEO. In essence, they have made this guy OK for carrying and taken action. It would appear that to the sheeple he is elevated above the average person and he is interchangable with an off duty police officer.

This am on Tkk, Braude said, well this was not some average joe with a gun, it was a security guard!!
..and then something about special training, again, not like a civilian ...
 

Friday

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If it's the building I'm thinking of it has a lot of different clinics and offices in it, not just psychiatric. It's also possible that he was with someone getting treatment or that the building has none medical offices in it. I don't know where in the building the shooting happened, so he might not have even been in an office, but in a common area.

If you do a little digging, you might find that the clinic may not exactly be a psych office, but something else, and not the type of clinic that its employees are allowed to discuss publicly.
 

M1911

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If you do a little digging, you might find that the clinic may not exactly be a psych office, but something else, and not the type of clinic that its employees are allowed to discuss publicly.

Would you please elaborate on this? It isn't clear to me what you are trying to say. It is a psychiatric clinic that does research. What would they not be able to discuss publicly? What is it that you are trying to imply?

Here is what MGH says about the clinic:

The Depression Clinical and Research Program (DCRP) is part of the Outpatient Department of Psychiatry at the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH). Under the direction of Dr. Maurizio Fava, the DCRP is now considered one of the leading centers for the study of Unipolar Depressive Disorders worldwide. The DCRP is currently conducting cutting edge research in the area of depression, with a focus on testing novel antidepressant treatments and on developing new tools to understand the biological changes that occur in this condition. The successes of the Program in the area of depression have not only informed clinical practice, but in many cases have defined it for the field. The Program has gathered together over the years a large group of experienced researchers as well as promising young trainees and junior faculty, generating countless clinical reports, pilot studies, and large controlled trials. The staff at the DCRP have successfully obtained significant funding from both the National Institute of Mental Health and industry sources. Currently, there are more than thirty ongoing studies at the DCRP.

In addition to carrying out signficant research activities, the DCRP is involved in delivering excellent clinical care through the Outpatient Psychiatry Division at MGH. The clinicians of the DCRP are known for providing superb consultations and treatment to patients suffering from depression, and for employing very sophisticated, state of the art pharmacotherapy strategies. Many colleagues from all over the country and around the world consult with the DCRP about or directly refer some of their most difficult cases. The staff of the DCRP includes fourteen full-time pychiatrists, four psychologists, eight fellows, nine research coordinators, and a program coordinator.

http://www2.massgeneral.org/allpsych/depression/about-us/dcrp-information.html
 
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Unfortunately, I think "we" lost on this one.

As already pointed out, the media is focusing on the "security guard" aspect of this.

They have essentially elevated him to the level of a LEO. In essence, they have made this guy OK for carrying and taken action. It would appear that to the sheeple he is elevated above the average person and he is interchangable with an off duty police officer.

This am on Tkk, Braude said, well this was not some average joe with a gun, it was a security guard!!
..and then something about special training, again, not like a civilian ...

According to the media so far the equation consists of:

Perp accosts doc in her offices - stabbing / slashing her
Doctors screams alert the armed and off duty "security guard"
Security guard barges doc's office door open to witness what he thinks is the perp beating the doc
Guard realizes the perp has a knife
Guard orders perp to drop said knife while aiming his firearm at same.
Perp lunges at guard
Guard drops Perp with two to the body one to the face

Some variables to consider:

"Guard" did not work in the building - so what was he doing there?
Guard lived locally to Perp
Media elevation of out of uniform security guard - aka an armed civilian ( he's off duty, and not a sworn LEO??)
Guard intervened in a fight that was not his ( personally, glad he did, but some eager beaver legal type might make something of that here in MA)

Now, let's rethink the scenario with, say, me in the frame.

Screams, door down, "drop your knife!", bang bang bang...

Now, would a legally armed psychologist who did not work in the building and who intervened in a fight that was not his still get the same treatment in the media and from the police??? No offense meant to any security guards or LEO's out there, but would I get crucified as a "civilian" as I didn't have special "security guard" training?

Looks to me the media like the "off duty" security guard theme - not the first time we've seen this.

Thoughts??[thinking]
 

Realtor MA

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The media is certainly playing up the 'security guard' aspect. That's fine. I think as time goes by it'll become more of a civilian with a gun theme.
I'm anxious to hear what the Doctor has to say. I think this thing goes either way based on that.
If the Doctor puts her stamp of approval on the hero/LTC holder's actions I think it's a step forward for gun owners.
 
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