Do you carry (an) extra mag(s)

[Tape Measure Pickle Wheel]

I hope that you aren't anti-gay. When did you get your degree in psychology? With regard to my sexuality, who or what I may or may not be is none of your business, and your rather crude attempt to insult me, only insults those members of the forum who might be gay and see you as a homophobe instead of just a neanderthal.

I support the 2A and I hope you do too, amazing how we turn on each other isn't it Qwerty or Pickle Dickle or whatever you call yourself these days.

Nothing against gays, just pointing out that you made the connection between a pickle and a dick.... then got overly defensive about it.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Not yet, but its in the works... right now my leather belt stretches out after carrying for a bit and it becomes a battle to keep my pants up with just my 1911. Got some webbed belts in the mail that should fix that hopefully.

 

[Bill Nance]

ALWAYS carry at least one spare mag.

Multiple assailants will quickly empty a 12-15 round mag. And that's if you DON'T miss any shots. (Hint, you're doing far better than most police agencies in that case).

I usually carry a gun with between 7 and 13 rounds capacity. I can VERY easily imagine myself with 1 round left or totally empty with 13 rounds. God Help me if they had friends or I missed a few shots. I'm dry unless I', carrying a spare. It costs nothing to carry an extra mag in a pocket. No concealment hassles, no nothing. Why the Hell wouldn't you?

 

[Bill Nance]

I hate to be the buzz kill, but I just want you guys to know that prosecutors and police make a big deal about a firearm fully loaded with a round in the chamber and extra loaded magazines let alone folding knives etc. If you ever have to use your firearm in self-defense, and murder charges are brought against you, it won't look good for you.

Furthermore, expect that anything and everything you have ever posted on this forum will surely be examined if you were involved in a lethal force encounter. Your statements along with all your tactical equipment might cause some problems.

I am not making any judgement whatsoever here. I just wanted to put out a cautionary FYI.

But I completely understand that carrying extra mags and knives can be appropriate for some. To each his own.

But I know the old saying "better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6......."

Jesse:

With respect, you're taking the most pessimistic possible view. Can you give us a case citation where a defendant in an otherwise totally legit self-defense case was sunk by the fact that he had an extra magazine on his person? Even in Mass?

I can make a solid, believable and serious case to a jury that an extra mag is a reasonable precaution. STARTING with the fact that ever LEO ion the country carries TWO extra mags. I don't even need all my experience or training to make that case. And a prosecutor sure as Hell won't need to hear it before a jury before giving his case second thoughts.

Seriously, have some case cites for us? Or is this more over-cautious lawyering?

 

[banned]

Jesse:

With respect, you're taking the most pessimistic possible view. Can you give us a case citation where a defendant in an otherwise totally legit self-defense case was sunk by the fact that he had an extra magazine on his person? Even in Mass?

I can make a solid, believable and serious case to a jury that an extra mag is a reasonable precaution. STARTING with the fact that ever LEO ion the country carries TWO extra mags. I don't even need all my experience or training to make that case. And a prosecutor sure as Hell won't need to hear it before a jury before giving his case second thoughts.

Seriously, have some case cites for us? Or is this more over-cautious lawyering?

I don't have any case cites for you. I stated that I was giving a cautionary FYI. I have just seen in the District Courts that the prosecutors and police may try and strike a little fear in the minds of the judge and jury about the fact that that the gun was fully loaded and the defendant had extra magazines. District Court cases are rarely published and you very rarely know what happens during jury deliberations.

Might I be over cautious? That is certainly a possibility. I am a buzz kill to the enthusiasm of this thread. I am sorry if I am the voice of gloom and doom, but I am just trying to look out for you guys that's all. And you certainly are right about me being pessimistic. I hope I am being overly cautious, because I agree that there could be situations where carrying an extra magazine may save your life.

This is one lawyer giving you guys an FYI. I am sure that there are other lawyers who disagree with me, and I hope they come forward with their opinion that you guys have nothing to worry about. Because I believe that you should be able to carry whatever equipment you can legally carry that you feel is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

 

[Gibbs]

Ok kids... enough with the personal attacks, etc. Ad homs over a magazine? Carry one, or don't. No reason to go "chinese bus drama" (search youtube) on each other over it.

-Mike

Can we have a sub forum where we can personally attack each other?

This.

Nothing like responding to a two year old post...

I commuted in Spanish Harlem for four years, but I would be a-scared to venture into an NES sub forum like that.

(Sorry, I was going to wait a year to post that response, but my coffee was already poured, so...)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There are quite a few things that prosecutors will attempt to use to make someone "look bad" that are considered all but negligent if omitted from a police officer's defensive protocol. The use of "baby killing even exploding hollow points" (even if the exact same load used by numerous LE agencies); a spare magazine; "high capacity magazines"; or perhaps even a Surefire flashlight could be presented as evidence of a "tactical mindset". In reality, I have never had to use my gun defensively, but have had numerous occasions to use a flashlight or pocket knife I had on my person as tools.

A very credible argument can be made to rebut accusations that extra mags, JHP, standard mags; etc. are somehow "evil", however, that is of little relevance when these issues used at the more preliminary phases of the process - determining if charges should be brought and if so which ones; leverage in plea negotiations (and spare the tired canard of "I would never cop a plea if I was right" ... it just doesn't work that way); evidence at a "dangerousness hearing"; presentation to a grand jury; and adding it to the burden of the issues your side has to address if it goes to trial. In short, it's ammo on the other side's belt that you have to rebut, not a "non issue".

Of FAR more importance is making sure your carry equipment is 100.00% legal. Sure, there may be no history of prosecutions for pre-ban mags that aren't, but expect no resource to be spared if the incident is otherwise "clean" and the state decides to launch a full investigation to see if they can find any evidence any of your high cap mags were post-ban.

With all due respect to the distinguished Mas Ayoob, LFI-1 and LFI-2 course material may not be that persuasive in jury deliberations in a Massachusetts Court. But I may be wrong.

I would not expect the actual course material to be impressive (in fact, it might make people wonder about someone going to a tactical school), however, there is benefit in being able to articulate why a JHP is an appropriate and responsible round to carry for self defense, as well as why a spare magazine is appropriate and common even among off duty/plain clothes personnel.

 

[AF83]

I usually carry just my 8+1. I do have some 10 round mags but usually do no CC with them. I have on occasion thrown an extra mag in my pocket but usually just what i have in my gun.

 

[M1911]

With all due respect to the distinguished Mas Ayoob, LFI-1 and LFI-2 course material may not be that persuasive in jury deliberations in a Massachusetts Court. But I may be wrong..

Yes, that is certainly a risk in MA.

 

[M1911]

Jesse:

With respect, you're taking the most pessimistic possible view. Can you give us a case citation where a defendant in an otherwise totally legit self-defense case was sunk by the fact that he had an extra magazine on his person? Even in Mass?
?

You'll never know what it is that finally convinced a jury or jurist to convict. Some years back there was a defensive shooting in the North End. The man's appellate attorney was Lisa Steele. She was completely convinced that he was innocent. During the oral arguments at the Supreme Judicial Court, one of the justices made a big deal about the fact that the defendant carried a spare magazine. IIRC, that justice is now the chief justice.

 

[cekim]

I would not expect the actual course material to be impressive (in fact, it might make people wonder about someone going to a tactical school), however, there is benefit in being able to articulate why a JHP is an appropriate and responsible round to carry for self defense, as well as why a spare magazine is appropriate and common even among off duty/plain clothes personnel.

All of this is why changing the laws is only a small part of what we have to do in this state and frankly will be easier once public opinion is changed...

After we get the courts to restate what should be obvious WRT ownership there is still the matter of what should be obvious WRT use, but clearly our judges and juries of this state live in a fantasy land.

 

[cekim]

I don't plan on seeing Dark Night, but if I were to, I think that a Glock in .357 Sig (Glock hating comments welcome) and large cap. mags would be necessary to relax and enjoy the show. That is why I choose not to go.

That is like saying I won't fly because of 9/11 or I won't go to the mall because of Mumbai or school because of VT/columbine. Silliness... You are more likely to be killed by a lightning strike. Vastly more likely to be killed driving there.

 

[drgrant]

That is like saying I won't fly because of 9/11 or I won't go to the mall because of Mumbai or school because of VT/columbine. Silliness... You are more likely to be killed by a lightning strike. Vastly more likely to be killed driving there.

Or via a heart attack from the butter on the popcorn.

-Mike

 

[MisterHappy]

While it's not precisely germaine to the OP, look at the progress of the Manchester-By-The-Sea case.

How many charges were filed on non-existent violations (posession of a double edged knife, posession of body armor, etc.....) that were dropped, as it was not unlawful. But they were used in the dangerousness hearing, and as leverage.

If you're carrying, you're willing to use it. If you're willing to use it, you're willing to stand up for your actions. Will "accessories" make things worse? Maybe. But YOU have made the choice.

Mr. Cohen was meerly providing an opinion, from someone with a bit more boots-on-the-ground intel than most here have.

I'm not sure, but I think that most law schools have a course (or seminar, at least) on "How to be a buzz-kill"

 

[joeendris]

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