Do not buy from this guy

[john21976]

I won the bid on AA auctions for a gun, contacted him and setup a saturday meeting, then never could contact him on the phone, until i used a different phone so he didn't recognize the number.
I sold other guns just so i could buy his.

here is what he wrote to me :
Joe,
i have apologized for the misunderstanding as far as the Fn goes. i am not trying to be difficult about this, but understand a couple of things: the gun is no longer in my possession or my name. it's gone. stop calling my phone there is nothing to discuss as far as the gun goes.any more phone calls will prompt me to call the police for harassing phone calls.

his name is philip (kip) leblanc
978-340-0280
from leominster
nickname nightstalker

do not do business with him he is very rude and a lier.
I was told to contact the ATF and gave them his number to ensure that this gun was legal in massachusetts, i am going to do this the end of this week.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

John, I know this guy. PM me for details.

 

[Weerd Beard]

He didn't get any cash from you did he?

I'm sorry to hear that!

-Weer'd

 

[cdkayak]

Have you contacted Auction Arms to report this? That would be probably be my next move.

Sorry how this turned out. It always sucks to hear about a deal going south.

CD

 

[dreppucci007]

Bad deal...sorry to hear about it. I hope he didn't get a dime from you yet.

Could this be considered some sort of firearms sale fraud?...Could the authorities get involved if it can't be resolved?

 

[Nickle]

Sounds like the seller didn't like the end price. Happens on eBay a moderate amount. After a couple of times, they revoke the seller from buying/selling. Contact AA about it at a minimum, they very likely will revoke the guy.

 

[senorFrog]

john21976[/b]]here is what he wrote to me :
Joe,
i have apologized for the misunderstanding as far as the Fn goes. i am not trying to be difficult about this, but understand a couple of things: the gun is no longer in my possession or my name. it's gone. stop calling my phone there is nothing to discuss as far as the gun goes.any more phone calls will prompt me to call the police for harassing phone calls.

Just curious why your screenname is John and he emailed you Joe.

I know screenames are normally different. My REAL name isn't Frog or Senor. [lol]

Is the seller that much of a scammer that he looses track of who he scamming?

 

[Rpriestlyjr]

Too bad you are on the losing end of this deal, with selling other guns and all. That just plain sucks.
But I wouldn't go as far as hitting up the ATF on the guy. You were going to buy it anyway, right?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but going to AA seems to be the best route.
But if it bugs you so much, why not check the State Police and see if the FA-10 form had been done.

 

[C-pher]

Like I said, I would contact AA and copy this guy that he broke a legal agreement by not completing a won auction.

 

[dreppucci007]

Just curious why your screenname is John and he emailed you Joe.

I know screenames are normally different. My REAL name isn't Frog or Senor. [lol]

Is the seller that much of a scammer that he looses track of who he scamming?

You mean your real name isn't Senor Frog? [lol]

 

[mark056]

Damn...to learn that you are not a Senor or a Frog is kinda like being told there is no Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. [shock]

I always sort of empathsized with you 'cause like Kermit says "It's not easy being green."

All the best (really),

Mark

 

[Adam_MA]

there is no Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. [shock]

WHAT?!?!?!?!

 

[dreppucci007]

there is no Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. [shock]

WHAT?!?!?!?!

What?!...Who eats the cookies and milk every year and leaves me presents?! I don't believe that baloney for a minute. [roll]

 

[Len-2A Training]

Too bad you are on the losing end of this deal, with selling other guns and all. That just plain sucks.
But I wouldn't go as far as hitting up the ATF on the guy. You were going to buy it anyway, right?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but going to AA seems to be the best route.
But if it bugs you so much, why not check the State Police and see if the FA-10 form had been done.

The BATFE does NOT enforce MGLs, they aren't likely to be interested. In refusing to sell a gun, he has broken no gun laws anywhere.

If he moved into MA with the gun, no FA-10 form was required to be filed, so that route is also irrelevant. MSP aren't likely to be interested.

If he possessed 20 rd mags for it, most LE agencies could care less, but it is a felony for each one he possessed, UNLESS he is LE (in which case, no crime).

Refusing to complete the sale is a CIVIL LAW violation, breaking a contract, and is enforceable in a civil court, via the auction house (sanctions upon him as a seller), etc. Even if you go the court route, no police will (or legally, can) get involved. That is where Constables and Sheriffs Deputies serve the guy with legal process (orders to show up in court, order to complete a sale if judge issues such an order - highly unlikely in anti-gun MA, or orders payment of "damages" - very slight at most).

 

[john21976]

curious about atf

I was thinking if i contacted the atf about him saying i wanted to buy the gun and wanted to make sure it is mass legal.... also he said he no longer has it and its not in his name he gave it to a ffl...... can't do that as an ffl in mass the gun was a 2004 and not on the list...so i was thinking i can get the dealer involved also.... this is the dealer who told him he can't sell it face to face.
maybe the atf would like to know about bad dealers accepting guns that they can't have.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Re: curious about atf

I was thinking if i contacted the atf about him saying i wanted to buy the gun and wanted to make sure it is mass legal.... also he said he no longer has it and its not in his name he gave it to a ffl...... can't do that as an ffl in mass the gun was a 2004 and not on the list...so i was thinking i can get the dealer involved also.... this is the dealer who told him he can't sell it face to face.
maybe the atf would like to know about bad dealers accepting guns that they can't have.

This doesn't fly!

BATFE doesn't give a damn if a gun is MA legal or not! Like I stated above, all handguns are legal . . . who can sell what to whom is the only "legal issue" in MGL.

ANY MA FFL can take the gun for sale. The law is irrelevant! The MA FFL can NOT sell it to another MA RESIDENT (violation of MGLs, again BATFE doesn't care, it is a Fed Legal gun). ANY MA FFL can sell non-MA compliant guns via their website or Internet, as long as the buyer is NOT in MA! Take a look at Collector's website, they list guns as "Not MA" and sell over the Internet by shipping to an FFL in another state for the final transaction.

So, even the dealer is doing nothing illegal by taking it for sale.

Sorry, you are angry and barking up the wrong trees. Take it to the auction house and have him banned, file a civil lawsuit if you want (unlikely to recover anything) and "want to teach him a lesson". But these are your only legal avenues of recourse, assuming you didn't pay for the gun yet. If he took your money and refused the sale, then you have larceny (criminal charges) that you can request to be filed but again there is no gun law violation involved.

 

[senorFrog]

his name is philip (kip) leblanc
978-340-0280
from leominster
nickname nightstalker

I was thinking if i contacted the atf about him saying i wanted to buy the gun and wanted to make sure it is mass legal.... also he said he no longer has it and its not in his name he gave it to a ffl...... can't do that as an ffl in mass the gun was a 2004 and not on the list...so i was thinking i can get the dealer involved also.... this is the dealer who told him he can't sell it face to face.
maybe the atf would like to know about bad dealers accepting guns that they can't have.

I'm gonna call him and tell him about this thread... [lol]

Le Frog strikes again!

 

[dreppucci007]

We still haven't heard if he got your money or not?

 

[dreppucci007]

Also, Len is right...you are mad and you need to get a hang of things. Contact Auction Arms and proceed from there. If you have your money, then work on getting him banned from AA and you are all set. If you sold your guns privately to get the money, perhaps the buyers would be understandable and sell the guns back to you for the same money...It's worth a shot. If he still has your money, well that's a different story. How did you pay?...That could depend on how easily you could get it back, and what method.

Again, best of luck.

 

[Nickle]

I went to AA myself, and though this guy is a small time seller, he's doing a moderate amount of business. Getting him banned will do more than enough damage to him.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Re: curious about atf

I was thinking if i contacted the atf about him saying i wanted to buy the gun and wanted to make sure it is mass legal.... also he said he no longer has it and its not in his name he gave it to a ffl...... can't do that as an ffl in mass the gun was a 2004 and not on the list...so i was thinking i can get the dealer involved also.... this is the dealer who told him he can't sell it face to face.
maybe the atf would like to know about bad dealers accepting guns that they can't have.

The BATF is not going to be interested without evidence of a crime, and they will smell your attempt to use them for revenge very quickly.

It is perfectly legal to transfer a non-compliant gun to an FFL in MA. In fact, one shop near the RI border has many guns labeled "not for sale in MA" and sells them to RI residents via FFL to FFL transfer to a dealer in RI. MA FFLs like Camfor and Lew Hortons take in non-MA compliant guns all the time as part of their normal trade. What is illegal is for a holder of a Massachsuetts License to Sell Firearms to sell such a firearm to a non-dealer.

These are NOT guns that the FFL "can't have." They are guns that the FFL can't sell to consumers in MA. There is no violation here to interest the BATF. This person:

1. Had a gun which may be legally posessed in MA, and could have come into legal posession in one of several different ways.

2. Reports that they have transferred it to a federally licensed dealer in compliance with both state and federal law.

3. May have obtained the gun illegally - but the same can be said of any gun you know someone else had. Would you expect the police to investigate you if someone call in "my neighbor owns a gun, I think he may have aquired it illegally but have no specific reason to believe so and I have no evidence that is the case, but I'd like you to investigate just in case." I sure hope that's not how it works, or us gun owners would spend all out time as investigatees.

Without meaning to sound disrespectful to you, law enforcement will generally take you seriously if you are reporting credible evidence of a crime. Once you cross over into reporting "non crimes" or "I think maybe this person is not doing everything legally because they did not behave properly in a civil matter", you're going to get written off as someone try to get the agency to do your dirty work for you.

 

[john21976]

talked to ATF

talked with the atf today, they are very interested in any gun that is illegally transfered to a dealer...or person who could not have it.
the dealer could not take the gun....it was not on the list approved by the ag.
i gave him the names of the dealer i he uses and philips name and address.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Re: talked to ATF

the dealer could not take the gun....it was not on the list approved by the ag.

This is factually incorrect on two points:

#1: The dealer CAN take the gun. I challange you to find a MGL prohibiting a dealer from taking posession of a non-compliant firearm. The dealer cannot sell it at retail in MA.

#2: There is no AG approved list. There is a Chapter 180 list approved by the EOPS, but no list which is issued by the AG's office, and no list which certifies guns as compliant with the AG's CMRs.

 

[senorFrog]

Re: talked to ATF

talked with the atf today, they are very interested in any gun that is illegally transfered to a dealer...or person who could not have it.
the dealer could not take the gun....it was not on the list approved by the ag.
i gave him the names of the dealer i he uses and philips name and address.

You're being silly, vindictive and petty.

 

[KMaurer]

Re: talked to ATF

the dealer could not take the gun....it was not on the list approved by the ag.

Once again, this is absolutely not true. First, there is no list of guns approved by the ag. Lots of people wish that there was , but he refuses to make one, prefering to play Gotcha! with dealers who sell guns that he decides don't meet his criteria. There is, however, a list of guns approved by EOPS. In any case, these only apply to guns that Massachusetts licensed dealers can sell to Massachusetts residents. As a result of this restriction, some dealers will decline to purchase guns that aren't on the EOPS or that they suspect don't meet the AG's criteria, while other dealers will usually offer less money for such guns due to the restricted market for sales.

Also, please note that the expression "FFL's" refers to someone licensed by the BATFE, usually to a holder of an 01 Federal Firearm License as a dealer in firearms. Massachusetts firearm laws never refer to or make a distinction based on whether nor not someone is an FFL holder. Whenever they talk about a licensed firearms dealer, they always mean someone licensed by the state. Because they are in the business of selling firearms, all state dealers must hold a federal license, but not all FFL holders need to be licensed by the state.

Ken

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Selling

Ken -

I have a feeling you, Len and myself are going to become unpopular if we insist on confusing the discussion with accurate facts.

 

[senorFrog]

Re: Selling

Ken -

I have a feeling you, Len and myself are going to become unpopular if we insist on confusing the discussion with accurate facts.

[lol]

 

[Len-2A Training]

MOD HAT ON!

I think that this topic has been beaten to death and it is time to close this discussion. That said, I am locking this thread and no further discussion of this matter will be allowed on these forums.

------

Facts:

- Rob is right, no matter what you are told that the law is, what dealers can/can not do, what action is appropriate for you to take . . . you refuse to read it, listen, or research it yourself.

- Your posts have devolved into a personal vendetta against an individual (seller) and now branched out to an FFL who has done nothing to you and nothing illegal.

- These forums were not setup for people to use to get vengeance! Reporting the facts and asking for advice are fair game. You've done that and received proper advice. You refuse to read/listen and continue on a tirade against people (seller and now FFL). That is your right, but using these forums for that purpose can drag the forum, the forum owner and the moderators into a defamation of character/libel/slander lawsuit that none of us needs.

The End!