Do "NO GUNS" signs carry force of law--YES

[Ultrarunner]

Thank you Gary, Rob, and Jesse (and others) for your careful and thorough responses. Handgunlaw.us and even the way the ways are written in Massachusetts clearly point to a "gray area" that would be difficult to argue in a criminal case, in other words, "guilty until proven innocent". The law is written loosely enough to justify charges, but not rigidly enough for them to directly enforce. I agree with Gary in authoring Massachusetts page at handgunlaw.us and answering that the signs DO carry the force of law because I would rather be proactive than reactive in avoiding legal trouble. Who wants to set the precedent and go to jail for violating a no weapons sign, especially in Massachusetts...?

 

[Mike-Mike]

The only signs that are actually binding is a properly "POSTED" area. I would still suggest they answer the "Are signs binding?" question with a NO as you would not be violating a firearms law.

 

[Realtor MA]

If they put up a "No Trespassing Sign" on a store front then anyone who entered would be in violation of the Trespassing Law.

Interesting. If I saw a sign like this I would assume I was welcome as long as I was conducting business with the store.
Similarly if I saw a sign which posts. No knives, no guns etc. I might assume that they are referring to the unlicensed variety.
In the case of a sporting venue ie Fenway Park, I believe they reserve the rigth to revoke your ticket(which is in fact a license). In the old days, if you had a firearm going into the Gardern, you could check it. I suppose they don't do things like that anymore because they worry about liability.
In the case of a mall or store I'm not as concerned. Frankly I don't think I've ever seen such a sign.

 

[Len-2A Training]

wrt "trespassing" due to signage . . . the following represents my non-expert opinion only based on discussion with both MA and CT LE wrt door-to-door solicitations at an apartment complex that was posted and discussions at my first gun club when we were going to post the property with no trespassing signage (some research with law enforcement or a lawyer, don't recall which, was done before posting).

In both CT and MA we were told that No Trespassing signs MUST be posted every 50' around the entire perimeter of the property to have legal standing for any prosecution. One sign missing or 51' away from the closest other sign and you can not prosecute!

I suspect that a complete legal analysis of the citation above would conclude the above to be true.

Now posting every 50' around a shopping mall would be insane, but requiring EVERY entrance to be posted would be a logical requirement. So the failure of posting at every entrance via the anchor stores (Sears, Macy's, etc.) should destroy the mall's ability to claim trespassing by posting. [Even in posted malls, I have NEVER seen a no guns sign at the entrance to any anchor store!]

As a Constable, I've served a few no trespassing notices and can tell you (also based on discussion with LE) the way this works. The person has to be verbally told to leave NOW. If they leave, the business or person then writes up a "No Trespass Notice" to be served on the individual and the PD where the business is located. Once I serve those notices, any trespass by the individual can result in arrest on sight. Prior to that, the police will do nothing if the person is told to leave and does so. Only refusal to leave upon verbal notice can be used as a reason to prosecute. IANAL but this is what I have been told via multiple legal channels.

For those that are convinced otherwise the only safe thing for you to do is leave your gun and all knives/OC at home before venturing out just to make sure that you don't violate what you are convinced is the law. For the rest of us, we'll continue to ignore the signs and go about our business unmolested.

 

[Force]

I read these signs like I read speed limit signs.

+1 My thoughts exactly

 

[Flyer007]

Great write up LenS!

+1

 

[inerlogic]

i non potest legere, anglicus.

 

[fshalor]

Interesting. If I saw a sign like this I would assume I was welcome as long as I was conducting business with the store.
Similarly if I saw a sign which posts. No knives, no guns etc. I might assume that they are referring to the unlicensed variety.

*nods. I am currently trying to deal with a situation where a business I frequent has such a sign. I didn't see it the first, oh 4 times I went there. Someone else mentioned it to me. I would love to "assume unlicensed guns" are not allowed, but...

I guess I'm not the only one that finds it challenging at a personal, moral, ethical level to weigh their rights as a US citizen against the chances of loosing those rights by exercising them. Why is it so difficult? I feel some times like I'm on the edge of a sword.

When I get evil looks for having a folding, locking pocket knife under 4", something's seriously wrong.

The whole post office carry concept was shocking to me. (Speaking of other nearly irrelevant laws.)

I find this current issue with sinage on businesses prohibiting firearms rather "interesting". I will add, I was quite confused this time. The last time I was in the business in question for me, I *know* the retired NYPD officer also there was carrying. I also know he'd probably get treated a lot differently than myself in that potential "this person needs medical attention, and OH A GUN OMG! WTF BBQSAUCE" scenario.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I would love to "assume unlicensed guns" are not allowed, but...

Just for clarity . . .

NONE of my guns are "licensed""!

I am licensed to possess guns.

There is a major difference between these two assertions.

In NY, "guns are licensed" to the person and you can't possess any gun not on your license by S/N (at least that is what I've been told). We don't do that in MA, we only register "transactions" and anyone duly licensed can carry a gun no matter who owns it.

 

[BrianK]

Not sure about you, but I don't notice, read, or care what the signs at the entrances to the mall, supermarket or any other business states. If I didn't read it or comprehend I have not been properly notified. AND concealed means concealed.

That's why I don't read contracts before I sign them. That way, I'm not bound by any onerous provisions in them. Same is true if I read them but don't comprehend their meaning.


Right?