Discharging a Firearm on a Boat

[BigSmoore]

Good Morning,

I've been thinking about this for a couple months now. Does anybody know if it is legal to bring a shotgun onto a privately owned boat, and shoot bio-degradable clay pigeons from said vessel? I'm spending my summer in Buzzards Bay, and several of my buddies have vessels capable of going far offshore for fishing/lobster/cruising. I ran the idea by them, but nobody would even consider it, unless i could prove to them that we wouldn't get arrested. I have my Class A-Non Restricted LTC.

I've heard rumors about 3 miles past the COLREGS Demarcation Lines, but nothing serious. Any Ideas?

 

[dixidawg]

I would assume the "no non toxic shot" regs that apply to waterfowl hunting would also apply here?

 

[dixidawg]

Ok. I just assumed the whole purpose of the regs was to not have the shot in the environment that the birds could eat.

 

[Admin]

Ok. I just assumed the whole purpose of the regs was to not have the shot in the environment that the birds could eat.

While I agree, I wonder if any ducks are bottom feeding on the ocean in 200' of water.

 

[ShadeWPI]

Ok. I just assumed the whole purpose of the regs was to not have the shot in the environment that the birds could eat.

It is, but lead shot in the bottom of the ocean 3 miles out from shore is not getting eaten by any water fowl.

 

[45collector]

I hate it when those GD scuba-ducks steal the bait off my bass rigs!!

 

[BigSmoore]

So you're saying outside of the State boundary lines, which extend 3 miles out from any point of land, not the COLREGS demarcation lines which seperate inland waters from international waters?

 

[oyster]

I wish these forums had a "like" button-- I'm new to this, minimally able to contribute anything intelligent, but it would be great to appreciate the stuff that has coffee flying out of my nose on a dialy basis.


heh. Scuba ducks.

 

[BigSmoore]

You got it. I did not know your skill level as to navigation, I do apologize.

Not a problem. If I didn't know, I wouldn't be a very good mariner. Thank you for the information

 

[SilentOverlord]

BigSmoore,
There are a few things to consider here.

First, Staying outside the 3 mile limit (from nearest land) would be a good idea so the state doesn't get involved. If I remember correctly, I saw some type of regulation about having a firearm on a boat in Boston Harbor (and Logan) but I don't believe I came across anything for the rest of the Peoples Republic.

Second, On the ocean, or any body of water that connect to the ocean you are also subject to federal laws. This means that the Coast Guard can board and do a saftey check at their discression. If this happens, they may secure your weapon and run a check on the s/n.

Third, Shooting a gun off a boat is not a "normal" thing to most boaters so it is a good idea to remain away from other vessels. I don't know if the rules have changed, but when I was in the CG, we were taught that shooting a gun into the air at one minute intervals was a sign of distress. Also, we did get a call once about someone shooting out the lights on bouy's down by Plymouth. Just saying people may get concerned.

You can call the CG and there should be someone there that can answer your questions more accurately than I
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/workflow_staging/Publications/420.PDF

 

[Eye5600]

I'm sure you'll look at a chart for the boundaries. It's not just "three miles from land." There are also rules that include deep bays and inlets even if they are more than 6 miles across. As an example, I'm sure that Massachusetts Bay is all US territorial waters and the three miles is measured from a line drawn from P-town to some other place, maybe Cape Ann. (I have not looked at a chart. I'm just saying "be sure.")

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

Stay away from other people and blast away. Way to much worrying about nothing going on. Over three miles and the state has no say at all the EEZ is clearly marked in charts and people really do shoot off boats frequently.

 

[SilentOverlord]

JW,
All I can tell you is what I was trained/taught.

Basically it was if our team boarded a pleasure craft for an inspection (safety/equip/docs) and came across a firearm, the Boarding Officer was allowed to secure the weapon from the owner and, if he desired, could run a s/n check to see if it came up stolen, tied to any form of crime, etc...Of course, if everything came up with no problems he had to return the weapon.

Now if this is considered illegal/unconstitutional by some that's fine, but I'm not aware of it ever being challenged.

Suppose you were stopped on the highway by the police and for some reason you actually gave permission to search you car, and in the trunk (properly secured) the officer came across your firearm. Does he have the right to run the numbers on that to see if it is stolen? Same/similar situation I think.

 

[inerlogic]

I wish these forums had a "like" button-- I'm new to this, minimally able to contribute anything intelligent, but it would be great to appreciate the stuff that has coffee flying out of my nose on a dialy basis.


heh. Scuba ducks.

you can click the little 6 pointed star under the user's name for the post you like and add to their reputation points.

 

[AntiHippie]

Really run the F***ING NUMBERS FOR WHAT?? They have no more authority than any other government agent to do that without probable cause. They can do a boarding for an equipment safety check,documentation of the vessel, and contraband. THAT IS IT!!!! Even the COAST GAURD has to abide by CASE LAW!

For federally regulated firearms (such as NFA stuff), no PC is needed - it's a regulatory issue. Non-federally regulated guns - recording serial numbers is, as far as I know, plain view, actually running them absent any RS or PC would get much murkier - and you're probably more familiar with the case law at that point than I am.

BigSmoore-
Outside of the jurisdictional thing (which it sounds like you're well ahead of the curve on!), the only -potential- consideration would be garbage discharge regulations. Off the top of my head, I do not recall what and where can be dumped (even biodegradable clays -could- be considered refuse). I emphasize the 'probably' and 'could' because I just got home from work, am exhausted, and my brain is already taking a nap. I can look it up for you in a bit so I can give you the specific cites where it's included (or not) if you'd like.

 

[inerlogic]

garbage discharge regulations...

i'll bet those got REAL tight after Alvin sank in '68.....
think sank in 5,000 ft of water, 10 months later they pulled it out, and inside, perfectly preserved (though a bit salty) was a bologna sandwich... "bio-degradable" is a conditional term....

 

[TZCHRIS]

Don't they shoot skeet off of cruise ships on a regular basis? or have I been watching too many movies?

 

[perry1386]

I'm having flashbacks of the. "ridiculous question" thread from a few weeks ago

 

[BigSmoore]

BigSmoore-
Outside of the jurisdictional thing (which it sounds like you're well ahead of the curve on!), the only -potential- consideration would be garbage discharge regulations. Off the top of my head, I do not recall what and where can be dumped (even biodegradable clays -could- be considered refuse). I emphasize the 'probably' and 'could' because I just got home from work, am exhausted, and my brain is already taking a nap. I can look it up for you in a bit so I can give you the specific cites where it's included (or not) if you'd like.

I didn't really think about this. Annex V of Marpol 73/78 outlines the regulations for garbage disposal at sea. If you want to dump any metal (lead shot, steel shot), the distance to the nearest land has to be more than 12nm. I guess if the dolphin humpers were having a bad day i could get nabbed on that. But absolutely no plastic can be disposed of in any ocean, anywhere in the world. So I'd have to police my shells.

 

[Billsail]

But absolutely no plastic can be disposed of in any ocean, anywhere in the world. So I'd have to police my shells.

And the wads??

 

[shotgunwilly870]

I've shot off boats just outside of hingham harbor didn't have any issues.

 

[KBCraig]

Really run the F***ING NUMBERS FOR WHAT?? They have no more authority than any other government agent to do that without probable cause. They can do a boarding for an equipment safety check,documentation of the vessel, and contraband. THAT IS IT!!!! Even the COAST GAURD has to abide by CASE LAW!

And has this has ever stopped any cop, anywhere, from seizing and running the S/N on a legally carried firearm, even when the carrier isn't suspected of any crime?

c.f. Just about any open carry police encounter on Youtube.

Yes, it's wrong, unconstitutional, and without any legal authority. What are you gonna do about it, since the politicians and judges won't stop it?

 

[Billsail]

Sea duck hunters oftentimes (most times) will set up very close to shore.

You shouldn't be hassled offshore during boating season.

Use your head, don't shoot near, around, or towards any other vessels. It's not difficult to find a location miles away from any other boats.

 

[el duderino]

As long as youre atleast 500ft from a houseboat, shoot away.

 

[joeendris]

I hate it when those GD scuba-ducks steal the bait off my bass rigs!!

Where's Ernie when you need him.....

 

[Arto]

remember the Belt parkway case in the Readers Digest in the 70's? a lady was driving along & got shot by a richochet from a .303 Enfield out on the water: [pg 207 here:http://www.scribd.com/doc/72242211/Homicide-Investigation-an-introduction]
"detectives came across TheodoreDeLisi, forty-six, the owner of an EnfieId. He explained he had beenin his boat, off Rockaway Beach, fishing for bluefish. He planned toshoot at sharks that interfered with his fishing. To practice shooting,DeLisi fired twice at a beer can, hitting it the first time, missing it thesecond time. The second bullet went north across Rockaway Inlet.This bullet passed through the open window of the Camaro andstruck McEwen in the head. If the window had been up like all theothers, the bullet, by this time, may not have had enough momen-tum to break the glass and lodge itself in McEwen’s head"

 

[smokey-seven]

I believe the term is, "seaward from the first inland bridge." Then you are ok to hunt or shoot as long as the motor is off and you conform to the safe distance laws. That bridge determination allows you to shoot where town or city laws say no hunting. Town limits stop at that location.

Years ago I had a discussion with the Salem Harbormaster when he told me I could not hunt where I was. He was wrong and I demanded he contact the Coast Guard or Environmental Police since I was in full conformance with all state and fed regulations. That Harbormaster had as much right to tell me I could not hunt where I was as a Maine Wallmart clerk saying I cannot purchase 22 ammo because I live out of state.

 

[SilentOverlord]

JW,
Like I said above, all I can comment on is what I was taught at our mini-LE school and what my experience has been. Whether it's legal or not is a topic for another thread. If it is something you want more information on, or would like to discuss with someone I will be happy to run down some old points of contact for you. In fact, I may be in the city later on the base and if I remember, I'll swing by the CG station and ask what is being taught/trained these days.

In regards to the second line, let's refrain from the personal attacks, shall we? I was just posting a hypothetical seneraio, not trying to state fact or opinion. I normally would not consider local LE "agents of revenue". I believe I started the seneraio by saying, "Suppose you were stopped on the highway by the police...."

Now that being said, I'm sure you can agree that even the most law abiding person may get nervous when stopped, and the average civilian doesn't have a good grasp on what their actual rights are. Some people may forget, others just want to seem cooperative. So there may come a time when the perfectly legal gun owner who has it properly secured in his/her trunk agrees to allow a LEO to search if asked. That was the situation I was posing......

 

[KBCraig]

It doesn't mean I am going to stop ranting about it.

Well, then, carry on. I rant about it too, but that's all we really can do.