Disarming Jews caused the Holocaust to be Worse (CNN Article)

[Squire]

Alaska Rep. Don Young suggests more Jews would have survived the Holocaust if they were armed - CNNPolitics

Anti-defamation League takes the puzzling stance that saying guns would have saved lives makes Jews look like Pussies or something. I don't k ow if being armed would have saved Jews in the Holocaust, but there would have most certainly been more dead Nazis.

 

[HiCap]

oy vey

 

[Radtekk]

Alaska Rep. Don Young suggests more Jews would have survived the Holocaust if they were armed - CNNPolitics

Anti-defamation League takes the puzzling stance that saying guns would have saved lives makes Jews look like Pussies or something. I don't k ow if being armed would have saved Jews in the Holocaust, but there would have most certainly been more dead Nazis.

More dead nazi's would have been good. As to how Jews fight for family and home, look at the Warsaw Uprising during the war. Not just how many German soldiers these untrained, under-armed, poorly supplied people killed, but how many troops they tied up and for how long. Then look at the wars Israel fought, starting with the War for Independence that started within hours of the UN vote granting statehood. Outnumbered, outgunned, out-supplied, out-everythinged, fighting against several countries whose avowed mission was to "Push them into the sea".

Points are not only that Jews can be tough bastards, but that a people with their back to the wall and literally NOTHING left but choosing how to die is ALWAYS going to make victory expensive. I doubt the liberals are willing to pay that price, nor will their surrogates be.

There's a reason for my avatar, which will soon be a tattoo.

 

[MAGA99]

There's a reason for my avatar, which will soon be a tattoo.

You should get the tattoo with a tavor instead of an ar!

 

[Radtekk]

You should get the tattoo with a tavor instead of an ar!

Agreed, got artwork? I stole this one a couple of years ago...

 

[Boris]

it takes more than guns, it's always easier to think that may be it's not going to be bad or may be you'll be lucky. In any case, there will be a whole lot of non-combatants who are not able to fight at all. During WWII there was no shortage of guns or opportunity to get shot at.

When SS got my mother's village there weren't many chances to fight back, it was hiding mode.

When armed enemy knocks on your door you have already lost. Remember these words.

 

[Granite Guardsman]

it takes more than guns, it's always easier to think that may be it's not going to be bad or may be you'll be lucky. In any case, there will be a whole lot of non-combatants who are not able to fight at all. During WWII there was no shortage of guns or opportunity to get shot at.

When SS got my mother's village there weren't many chances to fight back, it was hiding mode.

When armed enemy knocks on your door you have already lost. Remember these words.

Very insightful. I’m always amazed by the assertions of people who have never been in horrific situations spouting off about how they’d behave when the day comes. Until you’re there and the poop has hit the pinwheel, there is no way to tell how things will go down. The best we can do is train and prepare and hope that if the day comes where our backs are against the wall we’ll be mentally and physically able to do what we need to. Thank you for bringing a real world example into what is all too often a hypothetical discussion.

 

[mibro]

I first became aware of Israel's existence during the Six Day War in 1967 and then later during the October War of 1973. Both conflicts created a strong impression for me of Israelis being both tough and remarkably effective soldiers.

I am pretty sure the liberals view us as the Nazis and not vice versa. His support of 2A and the Bill of Rights at CPAC earned Wayne La Pierre accusations of being an anti-semite and an ethno-nationalist in this recent opinion piece in Haaretz: The NRA's Wayne LaPierre's Chilling Christian Nationalist Call to Arms.

Reality is complicated.

 

[BigTimber]

More dead nazi's would have been good. As to how Jews fight for family and home, look at the Warsaw Uprising during the war. Not just how many German soldiers these untrained, under-armed, poorly supplied people killed, but how many troops they tied up and for how long. Then look at the wars Israel fought, starting with the War for Independence that started within hours of the UN vote granting statehood. Outnumbered, outgunned, out-supplied, out-everythinged, fighting against several countries whose avowed mission was to "Push them into the sea".

Points are not only that Jews can be tough bastards, but that a people with their back to the wall and literally NOTHING left but choosing how to die is ALWAYS going to make victory expensive. I doubt the liberals are willing to pay that price, nor will their surrogates be.

There's a reason for my avatar, which will soon be a tattoo.

Sun tzu's 9th state of ground. Desperate ground or deaths ground. Put your forces in a situation were its fight or die, no retreat, no quarter given and a small force will fight like many. See D day.

 

[HuntMaine]

Meh not relevant

 

[jkelly1229]

Alaska Rep. Don Young suggests more Jews would have survived the Holocaust if they were armed - CNNPolitics

Anti-defamation League takes the puzzling stance that saying guns would have saved lives makes Jews look like Pussies or something. I don't k ow if being armed would have saved Jews in the Holocaust, but there would have most certainly been more dead Nazis.

Ever see that movie with liev Schreiber and Daniel Craig.... Those Jews seemed to do better than the ones in camps

 

[MarlboroughMan]

Most Jews I know (and I'm one even though I don't really "practice" the religious aspect of my heritage) strongly believe that "Never Again" needs to be more than just words. I believe strongly in self defense and have trained in boxing and Krav Maga (mostly for fitness but also because I don't like the idea of it ever being ok to be a sheep). I'm definitely not the toughest guy in my gym or the most well armed or well trained person on this forum by a long-shot, but if anybody or any government ever wants to come pin a star on my chest or load me or mine into a box car it won't be a good call. It's always amazed me how anybody from my tribe could be ok with being a sheep. JFPO takes it to an extreme sometimes but I'm happy that at least some percentage of the religion understand that Never Again doesn't mean that it won't happen again because we can rely on the government or law enforcement for protection.

 

[Radtekk]

Somewhere in the mists of time I read that the Israeli Special Forces trainees finish their training with an initiation ceremony at the top of Masada, with words to the effect that "Masada will never fall again." I was there the summer of 1980, climbed that rock in July or August, starting just before dawn. As I recall, WITHOUT people raining rocks and arrows down on us, it took a couple of hours to hike the "Messenger Path" to the top. I was a High School Senior, wrestler, in the best shape of my life, we'd been walking around Israel for close to a month. I was exhausted when we made it to the top. Awe inspiring is a good start on the feeling.

What Timber said... "Put your forces in a situation were its fight or die, no retreat, no quarter given and a small force will fight like many. See D day."

 

[Radtekk]

Most Jews I know (and I'm one even though I don't really "practice" the religious aspect of my heritage) strongly believe that "Never Again" needs to be more than just words. I believe strongly in self defense and have trained in boxing and Krav Maga (mostly for fitness but also because I don't like the idea of it ever being ok to be a sheep). I'm definitely not the toughest guy in my gym or the most well armed or well trained person on this forum by a long-shot, but if anybody or any government ever wants to come pin a star on my chest or load me or mine into a box car it won't be a good call. It's always amazed me how anybody from my tribe could be ok with being a sheep. JFPO takes it to an extreme sometimes but I'm happy that at least some percentage of the religion understand that Never Again doesn't mean that it won't happen again because we can rely on the government or law enforcement for protection.

Jews like Feinstein and Bloomberg are traitors to their religion and ancestors and deserve nothing less than whatever they get. The fact that ANY Jew, ANYWHERE, can possibly think that appeasement is a survival trait staggers me to the core of my being. YES, I'm Jewish. NO, I don't "practice". NO, I will NOT be getting on a train. I don't need to "wait and see" how I'll react. I know.

 

[mibro]

Somewhere in the mists of time I read that the Israeli Special Forces trainees finish their training with an initiation ceremony at the top of Masada, with words to the effect that "Masada will never fall again." I was there the summer of 1980, climbed that rock in July or August, starting just before dawn. As I recall, WITHOUT people raining rocks and arrows down on us, it took a couple of hours to hike the "Messenger Path" to the top. I was a High School Senior, wrestler, in the best shape of my life, we'd been walking around Israel for close to a month. I was exhausted when we made it to the top. Awe inspiring is a good start on the feeling.

My closest friend was in the IDF (infantry). He told me that during training they finished a 50 mile march by climbing Masada. That would have been around 1996.

 

[Individualist]

When armed enemy knocks on your door you have already lost. Remember these words.

When armed enemy knocks on your door you are already dead.

My grandfather escaped the Nazis with his cousin in part by being away when the knock came that took the rest of their families to the death camps, and in part by having some level of preparedness and help. Survival is about awareness, preparation, being in the right place, help, luck, stamina, and having the will to live free or die trying. Many of these things you can control, some you cannot, but your chances increase exponentially by controlling whatever you can.

 

[mibro]

When armed enemy knocks on your door you are already dead.

There is a member here who told me by PM one of the most amazing stories of survival I've ever heard. Of how his great-grandfather (IIRC), when the knock came on the door, shot all three men in the face and saved his family (and all their subsequent descendants) by crossing a border before the regime caught up with them. Incredible story.

 

[Individualist]

That's what is amazes and scares the sh!+ out of me when so many today refuse to accept what history has taught us over and over again.

 

[Boris]

Sun tzu's 9th state of ground. Desperate ground or deaths ground. Put your forces in a situation were its fight or die, no retreat, no quarter given and a small force will fight like many. See D day.

it's a beautiful and inspirational quote, but shitload of dead Soviet soldiers from Stalingrad to Smolensk, well, everywhere will tell you this: good training and well supplied MG42 is no substitute for courage and will.

so going back to my mother village ... there were over two thousand Jews/gypsies and anyone with black curly hair who was rounded up. They dug their own mass grave, it took a while, literally, and then they were all shot, most of them, the rest died under dead bodies over next few days. I don't know how to explain it, but rifles would not have helped those people.

 

[Radtekk]

it's a beautiful and inspirational quote, but shitload of dead Soviet soldiers from Stalingrad to Smolensk, well, everywhere will tell you this: good training and well supplied MG42 is no substitute for courage and will.

so going back to my mother village ... there were over two thousand Jews/gypsies and anyone with black curly hair who was rounded up. They dug their own mass grave, it took a while, literally, and then they were all shot, most of them, the rest died under dead bodies over next few days. I don't know how to explain it, but rifles would not have helped those people.

Tell Sgt York that "courage and will" are no match for an mg42.

Rifles may not have helped but they DAMN sure wouldn't have hurt.

The village in Poland my family came from disappeared during wwii. Not even a chimney remains. A few rifles probably wouldn't change that, but there would have been a few less Germans, and just maybe a few more Jews.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

The JPFO definitely agreed - and found through research that elements '68 GCA were actually BASED ON Hitlers laws, due to legislators having served as judges at Nuremburg then requesting copies of his gun control laws years later as they worked on the GCA... The JPFO went head to head with the ADL (which is NOT a "Jewish organization" any more than Louis Farrakhan represents all blacks) and told them where to shove it. A more recent event to cause appreciation of why NOT to allow yourself to be disarmed.

 

[oldguy68]

I have got to say that a Jewish politician calling for gun control needs to visit a few holocaust memorials and tell me how being disarmed would have been a good thing for them!

Murdering people is easy when they have nothing with which to fight back with!

My god was WWII so a thousand years ago that everyone forgot it even happened?
I guess they don't teach it in history class anymore...

 

[BigTimber]

it's a beautiful and inspirational quote, but shitload of dead Soviet soldiers from Stalingrad to Smolensk, well, everywhere will tell you this: good training and well supplied MG42 is no substitute for courage and will.

so going back to my mother village ... there were over two thousand Jews/gypsies and anyone with black curly hair who was rounded up. They dug their own mass grave, it took a while, literally, and then they were all shot, most of them, the rest died under dead bodies over next few days. I don't know how to explain it, but rifles would not have helped those people.

And shit loads of dead US Marines fighting island to island in the pacific against a poorly equipped and vastly outnumbered adversary on their "deaths ground" will tell you it's more than an beautiful quote.

 

[Sentenza]

Ever see that movie with liev Schreiber and Daniel Craig.... Those Jews seemed to do better than the ones in camps

Defiance, based on true story. Every person that survived that as well as every child born from any of those survivors owes their life to firearms.

 

[kalash]

I don't know how to explain it, but rifles would not have helped those people.

In a way it's a similar story to Masada, where they took their own lives instead of fighting to the death. I think a lot of people don't have the true will to fight for their lives, though I'm sure it's not an easy call to make when a German says "dig or your mother takes a bullet right here right now".

 

[Boris]

99% of people given a choice to live another day or die that very instant will choose to live another day, even if it's just one more day. Such as human nature. This is the reason why so many got into cattle cars knowing full well where they are going, there is no return.

To effectively fight, you need will + skill + equipment. Look at Finish/Soviet war of 1939. Lots of willing Soviets ended up shot. Finns also fought well and lost people ... but in the end Finns lost. There are a lot to learn from that campaign.

 

[Boris]

In a way it's a similar story to Masada, where they took their own lives instead of fighting to the death.

I believe the point of Masada suicide is to deprive Romans of victory celebrations. Romans loved to capture some enemies, bring them to Rome and parade them around naked and humiliated. A few more dead Romans would not made a difference, but it did make their victory hollow, all that effort but they had nothing to show for it. There were no photos or TVs, essentially no prize.

I think a lot of people don't have the true will to fight for their lives, though I'm sure it's not an easy call to make when a German says "dig or your mother takes a bullet right here right now".

Nazis didn't f*** around and didn't threaten, you were told and if you didn't do you were shot on the spot. For most people it has effect of breaking the spirit and turning into zombies. Look at Nazi or commie executions, you had people lined up in plain view of the open pin and the next group being shot before you in plain view. People walk up to the pit in groups like sheep and shot. Only few run.

 

[Radtekk]

Defiance, based on true story. Every person that survived that as well as every child born from any of those survivors owes their life to firearms.

I remember the movie, forgot the actors names. Cried like a baby when it was over. Those guys and gals had balls of steel.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Took a class over the weekend with Sam Sade of Alpha Krav Maga. IDF Special Forces yada yada. He was asking about guns and talking about guns as defensive tools. Never once did he say, "but you people shouldn't have them." The exact opposite. I'm sure there were a few libs in my class that got an eye-opening from him.

 

[sbi]

You should get the tattoo with a tavor instead of an ar!

If anything, an Uzi. If there is one rifle that symbolize Jewish strength and independence it's an Uzi.