Dillon 650 powder measure and ball powder - spillage common?

[exo]

See post 24, think I've got this sorted.

I've searched the forum but I don't see anything that seems to address my specific issue, but please correct me if I'm wrong!

I reload on a Dillon 650 and am using the Dillon 650 powder measure. I have found that it meters ball powders the best. The problem I'm having is that it seems to spill what seems like a lot of powder.

For example, I loaded up 500 rounds of .223 tonight using AA 2230 powder. I'm charging at 25 gr and using Hornady FMJBT 55gr bullets. It generally meters to +/- 0.1 gr (although that is also the accuracy limit of my scale). I get the best metering when I wait a few seconds (4-5 "one thousands") at both the top and bottom of the stroke.

I would periodically hit the shell plate area with an air puffer. After I was done for the evening and was cleaning up my bench and floor, I would say I had several cartridges worth of spilled powder. I did not have any accidental powder dumps from failure to seat a bullet.

I do not believe this is a spillage due to indexing "snap" problem, as there's still a decent amount of room in the cartridge and I have the shell plate adjusted reasonably well. I get full travel of the powder bar (white cube) in both directions, so I believe that is also adjusted properly.

Things I've tried:

• Waiting a few seconds (4-5 "one thousands" at the top and bottom of the stroke
• Giving the handle a tap at the top and bottom of the stroke
• Zip-tying a fish tank air pump (for vibration) to the side of the powder measure
• Doing all of the above at once

I get some spillage when loading for other calibers, though not all of them are using ball powder. The spillage isn't anywhere near as bad. For reference, .45 Auto using AA#5 (ball), 10mm using blue dot (flake), .44 Mag using 2400 (I think this is short extruded?). The .45 Auto might just not be as bad because the charge is substantially less than with .223, though. The pistol caliber spillage could also be indexing related I suppose since the cartridges are shorter.

Is this kind of spillage on a Dillon just common with ball powders, or is there something I can do about it? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Gammon]

I don't have a 650 but reload 223 on a 550 using 2230C and WCC 844 which are similar to 2230. I have never experienced a lot of spillage and can only think of two possibilities. One is a worn powder bar. Gunpowder is abrasive and these bars do wear out, leaving enough space for a fine ball powder like 2230 to trickle out. A symptom of a worn powder bar is sticking as the grains get between the bar and the measure. Close examination of the bar while reloading should reveal this spillage if it exists. The fix is simple, Dillon will rebuild the powder measure. The second possibility would be a case without a primer leaking powder out the bottom, but you would have noticed this.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

All you need to do is settle the powder column right when you refill the reservoir with powder. You shouldn't need any additional vibration, outside of the natural vibrations of the operation of the press, on the powder.

Double check, and make sure you are using the proper powder drop tubes (check the manual for the powder drop tube from the caliber changeover list details) in your powder drop station.

And, make sure they are polished well. I had some sticking on a couple of calibers, especially .500 S&W magnum. A quick call to Dillon tech support indicated that it was common for the larger calibers, and that I should polish the outside of the powder drop tube with XXXX steel wool from time to time to prevent sticking. Of course, no lubricants on the powder drop tube. Check the top edges of the powder drop tubes for burrs, and polish those off. Maybe you have some powder hanging up. Inner funnel edges of the powder drop tubes should be highly polished.

Those are the couple of things I can think of to try.

IF the problem persists, by all means call Dillon tech support!

btw, there is a discussion on this very subject, with a good suggestion here, on the Dillon site:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/powder_spillage-98-11-913.htm

 

[jaypap]

You can also find many answers to any Dillon questions on the Brian Enos forum. He has been selling thier machines for many years and their is a Dillon rep on the site almost daily.

 

[exo]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I took some #0000 steel wool and lightly polished the powder drop tube (and since I was there, the funnel on the powder measure. Those come kinda rough from the factory, eh?). I also tinkered with the depth of the powder die. I think there was just a -hair- of movement left in the powder bar.

When I finish prepping my next batch of brass I'll try again, see how it goes, and report back.

 

[pmclaine]

Do you use a powder check? If so in its as shipped state that collects a lot of powder and than dumps it on the plate. I polished the brass index with Never Dull and the issue went away.

This was for .45ACP on a S1050.

 

[exo]

Do you use a powder check? If so in its as shipped state that collects a lot of powder and than dumps it on the plate. I polished the brass index with Never Dull and the issue went away.

This was for .45ACP on a S1050.

I have a powder check but it never worked properly (still haven't sent it back to Dillon). I decided that on a 650 there was very little chance of double charging and it wasn't worth it.

I've prepped another batch of brass and hopefully will be reloading this weekend, so hopefully I'll have something new to report soon.

 

[exo]

Well, finally got around to going at this again. What I've done:

• Confirmed that I am using the correct powder drop tube (I am and was)
• Took #0000 steel wool to the powder measure funnel. Looks a lot shinier and feels smoother now.
• Made sure my shellplate was snug to reduce possibility of spillage due to indexing
• Took #0000 steel wool to powder drop tube, smoother now. There weren't any burrs.
• Made sure that the powder bar is getting complete travel. I think it was before, but I turned down the die just a little more to be sure.
• Took off the fish tank air pump vibrator thing, it wasn't making a difference and it might have contributed to some of it.
• Snugged up the screws on the clamp that retains the powder measure. I had been leaving that somewhat loose before, don't know if it made any difference.

End result? After making 500 rounds I would say that I still had significant spillage, but it looks like less than before. There's other dirt and stuff that gets swept up so I can't say for certain. The charge weights of the rounds I checked during the session were pretty consistent.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

As asked before..........

Slow down.... Have you tried slowing down? And allowing the powder to completely fall before indexing?

Everyone tries to make the presses go as fast as possible, especially the guys with the case and bullet feeders. However, you CANNOT go faster than the force of gravity. The powder will drop at it's rate.

Also, when was the last time you had the powder bar (slider) out of the dispensor? You might check that and wipe everything down. You could have chunks of debris causing issues there in that area.

 

[mac1911]

As duke says, slow down. When I began buying and rebuilding MEC shotshell loaders I learned quick when setting the progressives up. 1 station at a time 2. small adjustments at a time. Just when you think you have checked or cleaned everything you find something.
My very 1st MEC loader 600 I purchased used at a yard sale, could not for the life of me figure out why the powder and shot was going everywhere.................finally looked up a parts diagram, no powder/shot tube. NOW from that I learned parts diagram 1st check it out.

 

[exo]

As asked before..........

Slow down.... Have you tried slowing down? And allowing the powder to completely fall before indexing?

Everyone tries to make the presses go as fast as possible, especially the guys with the case and bullet feeders. However, you CANNOT go faster than the force of gravity. The powder will drop at it's rate.

As duke says, slow down.

There's a lot of text in my posts so this is easy to miss:

I get the best metering when I wait a few seconds (4-5 "one thousands") at both the top and bottom of the stroke.

So as far as I can tell this isn't a speed issue.

Also, when was the last time you had the powder bar (slider) out of the dispensor? You might check that and wipe everything down. You could have chunks of debris causing issues there in that area.

I haven't reloaded much .223 prior to these two 500 round sessions. Probably 300 rounds before these while I was working up the load. Do you think that would be enough to cause an issue?

 

[DukeInFlorida]

If you changed from the thin powder bar (pistol) to the thicker powder bar (rifle), and didn't set it up right, or got some debris stuck in the wrong place, it could cause the problem. Takes only a few minutes to open it up, and check for something stuck in the powder bar area.

Also, if you are somehow using the thinner powder bar, and have the spacer in wrong, it could be an issue. And, it could be that you have it (thin powder bar) so "opened" that it's well past the shelf, and powder could be hanging up there. I use the large powder bar for anything over 20 grains.

Failing that, I URGE you to call Dillon.

I don't have the same issue with that same powder in my setup.

 

[exo]

If you changed from the thin powder bar (pistol) to the thicker powder bar (rifle), and didn't set it up right, or got some debris stuck in the wrong place, it could cause the problem. Takes only a few minutes to open it up, and check for something stuck in the powder bar area.

Also, if you are somehow using the thinner powder bar, and have the spacer in wrong, it could be an issue. And, it could be that you have it (thin powder bar) so "opened" that it's well past the shelf, and powder could be hanging up there. I use the large powder bar for anything over 20 grains.

Failing that, I URGE you to call Dillon.

I don't have the same issue with that same powder in my setup.

I am using the large powder bar. I'll take it out and see what there is to see. If I don't find anything I'll ping on Dillon and see what they have to say.

Thanks

 

[highscore]

If none of the above solves your problem, try wiping down your powder measure completely with a drier sheet. Take it apart and clean the drop tube with a cleaner that completely dries, run a kleenex through it to remove any residue, and hit it with the drier sheet. All the drop tubes are rough on the ID and really do need to be polished. I polish them in a lathe until they shine almost the same as the outside. Static electricity will cause powder to stick no matter what kind you use.

 

[OzoneEater]

I had the same issue with my 650 at 1st. The powder spillage was not significant with each round but after a couple hundred rounds it is. Over here in CA. I posted the same as you on www.Calguns.net. There's a tool and die maker which he calls himself Chim-Chim. This guy is sharp. He loves the 650. He knows it backwards and forward. He says, here's the problem. The shoulder bolt that hold down the shell plate has to be tightened just right. If after you turn the bolt, push down the shell plate. If it rocks, its too loose. If you over tighten it binds up the indexing cam where its difficult to pull the ram down. After tweaking with mine for just a couple of minutes, it runs as smooth as glass and no spillage. Let me know if that works for ya.

 

[OzoneEater]

If none of the above solves your problem, try wiping down your powder measure completely with a drier sheet. Take it apart and clean the drop tube with a cleaner that completely dries, run a kleenex through it to remove any residue, and hit it with the drier sheet. All the drop tubes are rough on the ID and really do need to be polished. I polish them in a lathe until they shine almost the same as the outside. Static electricity will cause powder to stick no matter what kind you use.

Please..... I do not want to hear the Equation of static electricity and gun powder. The two are not a tag team. Again look at my post for adjusting the shell plate. Another method you could use is drag your index finger to slow the supposed eratic click of the indexing. Some people have even taken the spring thats under the ball bearing and shortened it. But I dont recommend that.

 

[OzoneEater]

Here my answer to my post on www.calguns.net with my exact problem

Originally Posted by yoitsbruce i put a sliver of fabric softener sheet that drapes the shell after the powder drop.on position 3. for some reason the dryer sheet works the best as compared to a paper towel.

Me -
Could I ask a dumb question. I dont have that problem with my other name brand press. And if static is the issue, wouldnt it be coincidentally dangerous to have the three elements of static, powder and primers? I'm not saying, I'm just saying. I believe its not static anyway. It hops as it indexes. If it were static it would spill or hop before indexing.

Originally Posted by chim-chim7 Its not a static electricity problem. The shell plate bolt is too loose allowing the locator bearing to snap as it moves into position. I have never heard of anything with a dryer sheet. If Dillon doesn't make it then your doing it wrong. I went through the same growing pains as evereyone else with a 650 or any other progressive. You just have to learn your new machine. Working with huge CNC machinery is what I do for a living so I am going to make sure my press runs like a Rolex. Which it does. Just feed it 2000 rounds yesterday of 45acp. Not a single glitch. Your about to find out why you just bought the best brand out there. Enjoy your new Dillon, I and many other do.

Chim Chim Got it right. After adjusting the shell plate, no more powder spill.
He should be working at a capacity of a Tool & Die Maker. I work with these guys at my job. They are Phenomenal.
Have had this XL 650 for not even a week. Have gone into full production. Made 200 rounds of 45ACP (only???) tonight. I typically check all my made rounds and check 100% with a Wilson Pistol Gage. Not one reject tonight. Dont you hate it when you get a jam and you have to force your slide open or with the butt of your hand jam it shut. If you're doing that, your dies arent set right. The Gage will find it before your gun will.

 

[exo]

I appreciate the input but I do not believe the spillage to be caused by the shell plate jumping. I have it adjusted to minimize the hard jump, and these are rifle cases not pistol. Spillage from indexing would be more of an issue with pistol cases. Also I seat at station 3 in this setup so there's only the one cycling before the powder can't possibly escape.

 

[OzoneEater]

I appreciate the input but I do not believe the spillage to be caused by the shell plate jumping. I have it adjusted to minimize the hard jump, and these are rifle cases not pistol. Spillage from indexing would be more of an issue with pistol cases. Also I seat at station 3 in this setup so there's only the one cycling before the powder can't possibly escape.

Thank you. I am just trying to help you get to a satisfying medium. All I was saying is what I do is create a slight drag on the idex cam by slightly tighten the shoulder bolt and retighten the brass tip set screw on the column. I dont reload rifle loads but the tendency of powder spillage would be more previllant in a straight mouth pistol case rather than a tapered rifle casing. I hope you find out whats goin on. Call Dillon and get their opinion.

 

[Gammon]

I appreciate the input but I do not believe the spillage to be caused by the shell plate jumping. I have it adjusted to minimize the hard jump, and these are rifle cases not pistol. Spillage from indexing would be more of an issue with pistol cases. Also I seat at station 3 in this setup so there's only the one cycling before the powder can't possibly escape.

+1. Spillage from bottle necked rifle brass is rare.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

The ONLY time I have seen it is when the operator tried to go too fast, and pulled away from the powder dispensor before the powder had finished falling.

+1. Spillage from bottle necked rifle brass is rare.

 

[highscore]

Please..... I do not want to hear the Equation of static electricity and gun powder. The two are not a tag team. Again look at my post for adjusting the shell plate. Another method you could use is drag your index finger to slow the supposed eratic click of the indexing. Some people have even taken the spring thats under the ball bearing and shortened it. But I dont recommend that.

Well, if Chim-Chim says so it must be true. Must be all the oil and grease that everyone puts in the powder meadure that causes the powder to stick and deposit itself on the shell plate. Never dumped out unused powder from the measure and had some stick to the plastic tube, right? Next time it does in mine, I'll tighten that shoulder bolt and see if the powder disappears.

 

[OzoneEater]

Some powders do stick to the sides of the plastic hoppers. Espcially my Hornady. But not so much the Dillon. Hodgdon Clays never stick. But I find Alliant Bulleye does. But not from static.

 

[exo]

It's been awhile since I loaded .223, but after tonight's session I think I've got it figured out. I'm pretty sure it was spillage due to indexing shake, despite what I thought earlier. Tonight I was still loading slow (3 count "one thousand" on the top and bottom of the stroke - which is actually faster than before where I was waiting 5 count), but I touched my finger to the charged case as it cycled around. No spillage.

Simple solutions, eh?

Thanks for all the input folks, it was much appreciated.